Mick Sheahan

[St.Walker]

Sorry if its been posted


http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,865 ... 11,00.html


THERE are times when a beaten team loses more than the premiership points.

Friday night was one. St Kilda's loss to the Western Bulldogs not only cost the Saints status as a premiership chance, but exposed major structural problems at Moorabbin - on the field this time.

The Saints simply don't stack up against any of the (other) apparent premiership contenders in their current configuration.

They have a midfield that is chronically short of zip and penetration, a forward set-up that, while capable, is unreliable, and a defence short on class and strength.

Coach Ross Lyon and his lieutenants have to address the roles of several players, principally Nick Riewoldt, Fraser Gehrig, Nick Dal Santo, Luke Ball, Robert Harvey and Stephen Milne.

Riewoldt is the team's best player, yet seems to be struggling, and uncomfortable, in a forward set-up built on the marking strength of himself, Gehrig and Justin Koschitzke.

It's as if he is not sure where and when to go, often finding himself up on a wing in search of kicks.

Lyon has to address the issue of whether the three big boys can work in harmony - and statistics say that's a legitimate query - or whether to base his forward set-up on Riewoldt as full-forward, and find a balance round him.

Gehrig is 32 and playing season No. 14 simply because personal plans didn't work out for him in Europe over summer.

While he kicked 59 goals from 20 games last year, he kicked 22 in four games against Carlton and Richmond, and a further eight against Fremantle late in the season, when the Dockers were out of contention.

His solitary goal on Friday night came from a free kick.

Koschitzke, as exciting as he can be, plays in fits and spurts.

He was brilliant early with five kicks in the first quarter; he had five more for the rest of the game.

Then there's the midfield. Ball, Harvey and Lenny Hayes work like beavers, but they can't break the lines, on foot or with their kicking.

Which brings us to Dal Santo.

He is a nice player, Dal, but he was a nice player when he arrived on the scene as an 18-year-old in 2002 and he's still only a nice player.

How is it that perhaps the most accomplished player on the St Kilda list doesn't have a top-three finish in the club's best-and-fairest award?

He was terribly disappointing.

While he had 20 possessions, only three were classified as contested. He didn't score and his efficiency rate was 65 per cent.

His opponent for much of the night, Bulldog youngster Josh Hill, had 18 possies, seven contested, and kicked two goals.

Dal Santo has to be more aggressive, accountable and productive. His peripheral vision and footwork are exceptional, and his ball use can be excellent, but not enough comes of those natural gifts.

How does someone of his talent start on the interchange bench? Hopefully, not just to save him from a tag.

He needs to be thrown into the middle. To get out of a jog, get his hands dirty. To help Leigh Montagna cause some damage from the centre square.

Ball and Hayes had 23 tackles between them against the Doggies, which illustrates how hard they work. Adam Cooney and Ryan Griffen had six tackles between them, which illustrates how often they are first to the ball.

Ball also went forward and kicked two goals.

Perhaps his future is as a set forward. In Milne's forward pocket.

Ball is a smart player, clever close to goal, and he will apply fierce pressure when he doesn't have the ball. Milne remains too inconsistent.

As for Harvs, he is rising 37, of course he is going to struggle at various times.

He still knows how to find the footy - 18 possessions from only 64 per cent of game time - but football is like pinball these days, and he needs the pace out of the contest.

At the back end, Sam Fisher continues to grow in stature and Max Hudghton will give you plenty as long as his hammies stay faithful.

Raphael Clarke is a different story. He must become harder and more reliable.

I, like many, saw big things ahead for the Saints this year. All of a sudden, there are dark clouds on the horizon.

[bobmurray]

Fairly accurate summary,unfortunately....

[OneEyedSainter77]

Spot on. Probably the only time I'll agree with Mike. Big problems ahead for us and we need to rectify them immediately.

[rodgerfox]

The one thing he left out, although he did apply it to Roo, is we appear confused.

I don't we know what we're meant to be doing.

Either Lyon doesn't know, can't communicate it, or simply the players don't get it.

Whatever it is, it's not working.

I don't think structure is the only issue.

[The Sainter]

What a good article by Mike. The last 2 years on this forum i have often mention Gehrig's lack of success against sides that put us under pressure and usually beat us. Why in hell's name did you take him back Ross?
Also another player i have had a go at in Dal was summed up pefectly also by Mike. Probably the most talented player on our list but will not chase or man up and very seldom is found at the bottom of a pack whereas Ball and
Hayes who give their all often end up on the bottom. Don't go on possessions in a match, they often give a false picture. look at Fletcher of the Dons, never plays close, picks up rubbish easy uncontested kicks every week and yet somehow always seems to figure in the best players.
Our Sam Fisher is a much better player by far with his attack on opponents and the ball.

[spert]

Just about sums it up -a bit of work to do for The Sainters, but so what, one loss and it's the end of the world... just imagine NDS and Kozi actually busting their guts for four quarters.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

What a good article by Mike. The last 2 years on this forum i have often mention Gehrig's lack of success against sides that put us under pressure and usually beat us. Why in hell's name did you take him back Ross?
Also another player i have had a go at in Dal was summed up pefectly also by Mike. Probably the most talented player on our list but will not chase or man up and very seldom is found at the bottom of a pack whereas Ball and
Hayes who give their all often end up on the bottom. Don't go on possessions in a match, they often give a false picture. look at Fletcher of the Dons, never plays close, picks up rubbish easy uncontested kicks every week and yet somehow always seems to figure in the best players.
Our Sam Fisher is a much better player by far with his attack on opponents and the ball.

the G trian thing is one of my pet hates yes he gets beaten by the good defenders .... but thats why they are good defenders because they can beat frasethe fact frase still comands the respect to draw that best defender is proof enuff of his worth say for arguments sake this week we concede frase is going to get beaten by argubly the best defender in the comp in Scarlett that still frees up the likes of kosi and roo to pick up the slack if you drop fraser cause hes going to get beaten and play Allen as his replacement then all geelong do is put scarlett on the next most dangerious player being kosi then kosi will get towled up and roo will have to pick up the slack for kosi and G....

[Saints Premiers 2008]

disagree entirely...

one match does not undo all structures and does not fully expose us

it was one half of football ffs...if he was to write this in a month if we played similarly and lost all the games then it would be valid

but it isnt ...its crap...it looks like mikey is simply writing whilst reading the general consensus off bigfooty

[markp]

disagree entirely...

one match does not undo all structures and does not fully expose us

it was one half of football ffs...if he was to write this in a month if we played similarly and lost all the games then it would be valid

but it isnt ...its crap...it looks like mikey is simply writing whilst reading the general consensus off bigfooty

Agree....

Somedays F1 cars blow up on the first lap and look very ordinary too. The first quarter was great, then a wheel fell off!... Gardiner was a big omission.

It's our first loss for the year ffs, some people just want to be the first to call it so they can say "I told you!"

We reload.

[rodgerfox]

We reload.

To use the term 'reload' would suggest that at some point under Ross Lyon, we've actually been 'loaded'.

I don't think we have.

[bigred]

We reload.

To use the term 'reload' would suggest that at some point under Ross Lyon, we've actually been 'loaded'.

I don't think we have.

Oh please.

FFS get some perspective Roger...

Its one loss! We have had a rosy preseason, winning some tough, contested games. One single loss does not a season make or break.

Far, FAR too early for scribes like Sheehan to be writing about doom and gloom....its just rubbish.

We got beaten to the ball, and then all our posessions were contested and under pressure. Our midfield folded like a house of cards. Our forwards suffered from poor and PREDICTABLE delivery which stemmed from our mids having the most tremendous mental failure that I have witnessed in many years.

I would be expecting a very, VERY competitive outing this weekend.

[markp]

We reload.

To use the term 'reload' would suggest that at some point under Ross Lyon, we've actually been 'loaded'.

I don't think we have.

Very funny!... but we have won every game this year bar one (admittedly without looking white hot), and the second half of last season was decent.

Let's see where we're at mid-season at least, before writing us off or calling for a mutiny.

[rodgerfox]

We reload.

To use the term 'reload' would suggest that at some point under Ross Lyon, we've actually been 'loaded'.

I don't think we have.

Oh please.

FFS get some perspective Roger...

Its one loss! We have had a rosy preseason, winning some tough, contested games. One single loss does not a season make or break.

Far, FAR too early for scribes like Sheehan to be writing about doom and gloom....its just rubbish.

We got beaten to the ball, and then all our posessions were contested and under pressure. Our midfield folded like a house of cards. Our forwards suffered from poor and PREDICTABLE delivery which stemmed from our mids having the most tremendous mental failure that I have witnessed in many years.

I would be expecting a very, VERY competitive outing this weekend.

Our pre-season was for mine, much like our start to this year.

We fell over the line in games that could have gone either way. And never looked overly convincing at all.

Against Sydney in the real stuff, we started well then tried our best to lose the game.

A bizarre and what appears to be a very complex way of playing AFL footy, is what we seem intent on doing once we get in front.

My thoughts aren't based on last week, or '1 game' as you put it. It's based on last year, this pre-season and last week.

The results in the pre-season and early in the year don't really matter. It's the signs that are important.

In the pre-season, players are played out of position, new guys getting games, players are underdone etc. etc. The results in these conditions and circumstances (not to mention a different set of rules) aren't relevant at all.

Early in the year, the results are often very contrasting to the final ladder after 22 weeks.

The Sydney game, was probably the worst I've seen. And it was instigated by us. By doing so, we nearly lost the game, and probably should have had the young bloke from Sydney kicked straight.

Against Carlton, was even worse considering the opposition. They are pathetic, yet they matched us for two quarters and we gave then 6 in the last quarter.

7 of our much heralded 19 goal game, came in the last quarter when the match was over.

We still don't look fit enough to do what it appears Lyon wants us to do.

We still look confused.

We still have poor skills.


I don't think the signs are good, regardless of the end result on Saturday night.

[SB10]

Bottom line Doggies gave us a right royal whipping. End of story.

All this negative talk in the media might just be the reality check the team (and some individuals) need going into a real dog fight against Geelong.

Can you imagine the hype and bullsh#$ the media would have been going on about had we gone into this game 3-0 (with a "who cares" NAB Cup already in the bank).

Now that we've universally been written off as premiership contenders sits perfectly well with me going into this game.

If there was some complacency in the team, well it's certainly been rectified now. Personally, I think the boys "fire up" for Geelong games like no other. (they shouldn't but the fact is teams do)

Can't wait for Saturday afternoon 2.10pm, (hopefully with roof open) for the boys to roll up their sleeves and give it a red hot go.

I'm certainly going along with an expectation of victory. (Just watch Sheahan, Fatprick Smith and co, turn full circle again should we get up!)

[Moccha]

So what happens if the Saints beat Geelong. Will he write the complete opposite?

A very reactionary article. One loss doesn't make a season. Sure they were crap, but the Bullfrogs will cop a bealting sometime soon. What will he write then?

[SB10]

So what happens if the Saints beat Geelong. Will he write the complete opposite?

A very reactionary article. One loss doesn't make a season. Sure they were crap, but the Bullfrogs will cop a bealting sometime soon. What will he write then?

What else can he write if we happen to beat the shortest priced premiership favourite in years! "Sorry.....I take everything back I said about St Kilda last week.........."

Agree, ridiculous article after one loss, but I'm not unhappy that he wrote it! Gives us plenty of ammunition.

[evertonfc]

So what happens if the Saints beat Geelong. Will he write the complete opposite?

Well, duh, of course he would...because if we do win and have suddenly found a new injection of speed, intensity and effort, then he'll be compelled to write about it.

But we showed all the things on Friday night that cost us last year: lack of effort, intensity and poor ball use.

I'd be writing about that too if I was him.

A very reactionary article. One loss doesn't make a season.

That's what he's saying. It was only one loss, but it exposed a whole lot more...

It exposed the things we thought were fixed. Clearly, we are a side that can be unpicked when most of us thought we were water-tight.

A superb write-up from Sheahan who's comprehensively nailed the issue; comfortably the best football analyst in the game. It would have been much easier for him to write Rohan Connolly's hype-up of Collingwood and Hawthorn, but he didn't.

St Kilda's got issues. Sure, we're better than some teams, but Friday exposed something within us that you don't see in premiership teams.

The only thing I disagree with Sheahan is the three talls. When our midfield competed on Friday, our three tall system worked a treat because it meant the Dogs were strectched too much. Then our midfield resorted to looking like also rans, and refused to win contested footy, and thus the ball seldom went in like it did in Q1.

We've had a good pre-season, winning one game with mild comfort against a horrible team and then three games by under a kick. We've then come into the regular season and won the worst game of the year by two points and then had to overcome another horrible team.

The Dogs came out and drilled a bullet right through us in three quarters of football. We were embarrassed.

We are capable of winning against poor/understrength teams, and for pulling rabbits out of hats, as Harvey's 350th showed. But all too often, the hype is not met by reality.

The onus is on St Kilda to prove this isn't the case. This week, Geelong is the perfect test.

Will we stand up and scrap for every ball and put ourselves on track for where we need to be, or will we shirk the contest and roll over, like we did on Friday night?

Massive, massive occaision for this football club.

[markp]

So what happens if the Saints beat Geelong. Will he write the complete opposite?

Gerard will say to him on 'On the Couch'... "well, you put down the challenge last week Mike... "

[Saints Premiers 2008]

So what happens if the Saints beat Geelong. Will he write the complete opposite?

Gerard will say to him on 'On the Couch'... "well, you put down the challenge last week Mike... "

yep because mike put down the challenge st kilda responded entirely due to his 'fire up' article...

i was breathing fire whilst reading that article and found myself wondering if every player from the 22 that played were doing so too...i mean its mikey of course

ffs the only club that would take an article like that to heart is freo and its not as if they are any good either...

[To the top]

The old story is that you are only as good as your last game.

[joffaboy]

The old story is that you are only as good as your last game.

therefore Sheahan is spot on in his article.

I cant believe how the media were so focussed on the Saints as a contender. We played OK in the praccy matches, won a ugly scrap agaist Sydney, beat the bye with a lacklustre performance, and when challenged by the Dogs gave up without a whimper.

Unfortunately Sheahan is pretty close on this one.

[Saintschampions08]

disagree entirely...

one match does not undo all structures and does not fully expose us

it was one half of football ffs...if he was to write this in a month if we played similarly and lost all the games then it would be valid

but it isnt ...its crap...it looks like mikey is simply writing whilst reading the general consensus off bigfooty

Agree....

Somedays F1 cars blow up on the first lap and look very ordinary too. The first quarter was great, then a wheel fell off!... Gardiner was a big omission.

It's our first loss for the year ffs, some people just want to be the first to call it so they can say "I told you!"

We reload.

It's not only about the last game.

Your looking at it as though we were playing brilliant footy, scoring 120 points, the past 6 weeks.

Nothing's changed.

Dal was the same last night as he was against Sydney, or Carlton, or any of the NAB games for that matter.

Our forward line was the same, Riewoldt tries hard, Gehrig was beaten and Kossie was quiet.

The only difference between this game, and the rest, was our opponent.

[joffaboy]

The only difference between this game, and the rest, was our opponent.

Didn't we play Geelong and Adelaide in the NAB Cup??

Yeah I know praccy match - but we didn't play badly until the game against the bye last week. Sydney was always going to be a scrap.

[Richter]

Sheahan is pretty much on the money I agree. Everton you're even closer.

I don't agree that our defence is bad. Sam Fisher and Max are excellent - Gram and BJ are contrasting rebounding half backs and when Goose comes back he completes the set up. To add to it we have Geary shaping up nicely, with Gilbo emerging too. Back ups in Leigh Fisher, Blake.....

Up front he has a point but in the 1st quarter all was good.

It's in the midfield that we are having problems. Everyone has known we're not quick or blessed with great skills (Dal aside) but we have had one of the toughest midfields.

That was exploded on Friday night. We were pushed around by the Western Bulldogs! I still can't believe it. In the time that I have been watching St Kilda i can't remember another occasion that happened (EDIT: in the Q final in 2004 vs Brisbane).

The players need to show that their SOFTness was an abberation, that they bleed for the jersey and are willing to put their bodies on the line. That did not happen on Friday night.

Any tough players who were not in the team nedd to come in, and for me that means CJ, Armo and MG (if fit). Drop those not contributing offensively - that means Leigh Fisher, Raph Clarke and one other.

Time to stand up and be counted St Kilda.

[Saintschampions08]

The only difference between this game, and the rest, was our opponent.

Didn't we play Geelong and Adelaide in the NAB Cup??

Yeah I know praccy match - but we didn't play badly until the game against the bye last week. Sydney was always going to be a scrap.

Neither team played even close to a full strength team against the Cats.

They didn't have 5 of their AA, and were missing Blake and a few others.

The match against Adelaide was anything but impressive.

Sure, we won, but if we'd been a bit less lucky, we could have easily ended up with 2/4 wins in the NAB Cup, and lost to Sydney.
We've been lucky so far, and it's making us look a lot better then we are, forget the 'we are getting good at close games' line.

If we continuously play close games like we have so far, it will eventually come back and bite us. Not only will our percentage be very low, if the players lose any confidence, things will start going against us, and we'll be losing by 3 points rather then winning.

Sure 6-1 from the 7 games looks impressive, but had we been unlucky, it could have been 2-5 or 3-4.