AFL contradictions

[To the top]

The AFL is managed in crisis mode.

Instead of managing to Standing Instructions, it reacts to events with no consistency in those reactions.

In the match St. Kilda v. Fremantle, the umpires failed to hear the final siren and the match continued until they did, when they signalled the end of the match.

Using technology (ie viewing video tape), the AFL deemed that at the moment the siren was sounded (but not heard by those officiating) should be observed as the end of the game, not when the umpires called at halt to the contest.

The result of that game was changed.

The same technolgy (video tape) is available in the NM v. Sydney match but, in this instance, the result of a game is not adjudicated upon by what technology shows.

Why not?

The rules say that, if a head count is called and a team has too many players on the field, the side with too many players on the field loses its score to that time.

With technology (video tape), a head count is not required to establish the facts of the matter in regards the number of players a side has on the field.

So Sydney cheated by having too many players on the field, but the result stands and Sydney gets points.

St Kilda did not cheat, it merely continued to compete until the umpire raised his arms and called the game finished.

St Kilda lost the points from that game.

So where is the credibility of the AFL?

Then we get to the draw, to the tribunal and to the raft of other matters where there are glaring inconsistencies.

Including payments by club supporters to third parties related to players.

Plus we have clubs which are technically bankrupt and relying on continuing hand outs from the AFL to survive.

Plus, into this scenario, the AFL want to introduce a team on the Gold Coast and another in Western Sydney!

Well, as with everything, one day the music stops and you are left to actually earn your keep as a result of what you are earning in cold, hard dollars from your core activity, not from "froth and bubble" revenue such as TV Rights money - where the TV networks justify such expense to purchase the rights on the basis of expected advertising revenue.

That is when you need the consistency of product, and not a history of a succession of "crisis mode" decisions made with no consistency to previous decisions.

I, for one, do not watch any AFL football unless it is live - and I refuse to subscribe to receive live games (Murdoch, Packer and Teslsta just do not do it for me) - so I no longer watch AFL football on TV. The days of watching interstate games live are gone because we get delayed games from Melbourne - and why watch a game until mid-night on a Friday night when the result is known at 10PM?

How many others are like me, looking at alternate entertainment?

And how long before we start showing up on surveys of TV audiences, and the sponsor advertising drops off as does the premium charged to advertise during that programme?

And the music stops.

As I say, the AFL manages in constant crisis mode, does not adhere to Standing Instructions and has itself in a dilemma.

On all fronts.

[Eastern]

The thing that completely astounds me about the Syd-Nth 19 man game is that Paul Roos was coaching from the bench and has avoided any real scrutiny on this issue. No-one has been able to convince me that that he was not in control and/or did not know that he had 19 men on the field. Yes, Sydney copped a $25K fine (not the $50K with 1/2 suspended as per the afl spin doctors) and Roos completely escaped any scrutiny or sanction.

And, I too can draw comparasons with "sirengate" but I would have trouble keeping my St Kilda bias out of the arguement !!

[Mr Magic]

The thing that completely astounds me about the Syd-Nth 19 man game is that Paul Roos was coaching from the bench and has avoided any real scrutiny on this issue. No-one has been able to convince me that that he was not in control and/or did not know that he had 19 men on the field. Yes, Sydney copped a $25K fine (not the $50K with 1/2 suspended as per the afl spin doctors) and Roos completely escaped any scrutiny or sanction.

And, I too can draw comparasons with "sirengate" but I would have trouble keeping my St Kilda bias out of the arguement !!

Paul Roos - 'The Teflon Coach'.
No sh1t/dirt sticks to him.

[plugger66]

The AFL keep stuffing up. Games are hardly live anymore. Actually they have hardly ever been live. They make us pay for games on Foxtel. Hey havent the done that since they started showing all 8 games. No one is watching it. Sorry wrong record ratings. No one is going. Sorry wrong again record crowds. Yep if they keep this up we as a game are stuffed.

[Eastern]

The thing that completely astounds me about the Syd-Nth 19 man game is that Paul Roos was coaching from the bench and has avoided any real scrutiny on this issue. No-one has been able to convince me that that he was not in control and/or did not know that he had 19 men on the field. Yes, Sydney copped a $25K fine (not the $50K with 1/2 suspended as per the afl spin doctors) and Roos completely escaped any scrutiny or sanction.

And, I too can draw comparasons with "sirengate" but I would have trouble keeping my St Kilda bias out of the arguement !!

Paul Roos - 'The Teflon Coach'.
No sh1t/dirt sticks to him.

I found it amazing that Roos was able to turn it around to such an extent that he ended up turning James Brayshaw into the villian !!

[saintspremiers]

The AFL keep stuffing up. Games are hardly live anymore. Actually they have hardly ever been live. They make us pay for games on Foxtel. Hey havent the done that since they started showing all 8 games. No one is watching it. Sorry wrong record ratings. No one is going. Sorry wrong again record crowds. Yep if they keep this up we as a game are stuffed.

Hey Dimwit/Anderscum/AFL Lacky-boy or whoever you really are in real life, stop spamming our forum!

[plugger66]

The AFL keep stuffing up. Games are hardly live anymore. Actually they have hardly ever been live. They make us pay for games on Foxtel. Hey havent the done that since they started showing all 8 games. No one is watching it. Sorry wrong record ratings. No one is going. Sorry wrong again record crowds. Yep if they keep this up we as a game are stuffed.

Hey Dimwit/Anderscum/AFL Lacky-boy or whoever you really are in real life, stop spamming our forum!

Sorry I think the game is going great but hey thanks for your positive contribution. And I love those funny names. My 10 year daughter cannot stop laughing.

[saintspremiers]

The AFL keep stuffing up. Games are hardly live anymore. Actually they have hardly ever been live. They make us pay for games on Foxtel. Hey havent the done that since they started showing all 8 games. No one is watching it. Sorry wrong record ratings. No one is going. Sorry wrong again record crowds. Yep if they keep this up we as a game are stuffed.

Hey Dimwit/Anderscum/AFL Lacky-boy or whoever you really are in real life, stop spamming our forum!

Sorry I think the game is going great but hey thanks for your positive contribution. And I love those funny names. My 10 year daughter cannot stop laughing.

It's all my pleasure Andyboy(s).

P.S. How's the game development going in China at the moment, with the latest Vegemite ban??

[plugger66]

The AFL keep stuffing up. Games are hardly live anymore. Actually they have hardly ever been live. They make us pay for games on Foxtel. Hey havent the done that since they started showing all 8 games. No one is watching it. Sorry wrong record ratings. No one is going. Sorry wrong again record crowds. Yep if they keep this up we as a game are stuffed.

Hey Dimwit/Anderscum/AFL Lacky-boy or whoever you really are in real life, stop spamming our forum!

Sorry I think the game is going great but hey thanks for your positive contribution. And I love those funny names. My 10 year daughter cannot stop laughing.

It's all my pleasure Andyboy(s).

P.S. How's the game development going in China at the moment, with the latest Vegemite ban??

Going very well over there. The players who play in China come from South Africa, Dubai and Ireland so they dont eat Vegemite.

[Eastern]

Hey FOLKS. Can we please stick to the topic and stop the insults !!

[plugger66]

Hey FOLKS. Can we please stick to the topic and stop the insults !!

Who has or is being insulted.

[Mr Magic]

The AFL keep stuffing up. Games are hardly live anymore. Actually they have hardly ever been live. They make us pay for games on Foxtel. Hey havent the done that since they started showing all 8 games. No one is watching it. Sorry wrong record ratings. No one is going. Sorry wrong again record crowds. Yep if they keep this up we as a game are stuffed.

Predictable response - I'm just amazed it took you 24 minutes to post it. Were you having dinner?

Now you managed to find a tiny portion of this 'critical' post about the AFL to discuss. How about the main thrust of his post - that the AFL has been inconsistant over their handling of the 2 differing matters?

Why is it so difficult for you to accept that we 'mortals', unlike you seem to, don't have the inside knowledge of the intricate workings of the AFL and find some of their decisions perplexing?

Why do you continue to defend them in the face of incontrevertable inconsistancies?

Tell the truth, are you in reality Patrick Keane, the AFL's spokesperson and is it part of your job to infiltrate Fan Forums to spread the official AFL misinformation bullshyte?

[saintspremiers]

Hey FOLKS. Can we please stick to the topic and stop the insults !!

Who has or is being insulted.

All St.Kilda fans by the AFL.

[plugger66]

The AFL keep stuffing up. Games are hardly live anymore. Actually they have hardly ever been live. They make us pay for games on Foxtel. Hey havent the done that since they started showing all 8 games. No one is watching it. Sorry wrong record ratings. No one is going. Sorry wrong again record crowds. Yep if they keep this up we as a game are stuffed.

Predictable response - I'm just amazed it took you 24 minutes to post it. Were you having dinner?

Now you managed to find a tiny portion of this 'critical' post about the AFL to discuss. How about the main thrust of his post - that the AFL has been inconsistant over their handling of the 2 differing matters?

Why is it so difficult for you to accept that we 'mortals', unlike you seem to, don't have the inside knowledge of the intricate workings of the AFL and find some of their decisions perplexing?

Why do you continue to defend them in the face of incontrevertable inconsistancies?

Tell the truth, are you in reality Patrick Keane, the AFL's spokesperson and is it part of your job to infiltrate Fan Forums to spread the official AFL misinformation bullshyte?

I didnt answer the first part of the post because I am sick of comparisions about what happened to us compared to other sides but it seems that worries you more than the footy. The AFL make heaps of mistakes but so does every organisation. By the way I am still unsure as to whether the Swans should or should not have lost the points.

And about what I said was not misinformation and again I apoligise for thinking the game is pretty well run. Like I have said many times if we were going well i dont think it would be as big an issue.

The way people write on here I am sure they would love the AFL to fall over. Then what will that leave us with. Friggin soccer.

[Dan Warna]

can anyone guess the outcome had st kilda had 19 men on the ground and the opposition was say....ANY INTERSTATE side?

as Paul Roos, yeah he's pretty brilliant isn't he?

seriously if he were bear, shyte would stick on the bear who standing next him when he took a dump.

[Mr Magic]

[quote="plugger66 By the way I am still unsure as to whether the Swans should or should not have lost the points.
[/quote]

Great,
I am interested to know your thinking as to why you are unsure on this?

From my perspective it is quite clear.

The Swans broke a rule (no-one is claiming it was other than inadvertant) and had 19 players on the field for approx 30 seconds during which time they scored the point that tied the game. Even more problematic is that one of the 2 players involved in the 'botched' interchange was involved in that passage of play.

The AFL rules quite clearly state that the Captain must ask the Umpire for a 'headcount'.
Clearly this was not done so the AFL rule was not adhered to.

Where the complication arises is the "Sirengate' fiasco where the AFL Commission chose to not abide by the 'rules' (the game finishes not when the siren blows but when the Umpire hears it) and changed the result of the game.

Whilst the 2 insidents are not similar, the actions taken by the AFL should be consistant in the view of myself and a majority of commentators/fans and observers who have voiced their opinions on Radio, TV, in print and on Internet forums.

The fact that the AFL seems to be inconsistant in its handling of the 2 cases is what is causing the current angst against us/them.

[iceman]

i don't have an issue with the swans 19 man saga. To be honest i'm dissapointed the swans got a fine, as far as i'm aware the rules are clear in saying that in the instance that one team is suspected to have 19 men on the field, the captain of the opposing team can call a head count at any time, and play stops immediately. all players are counted, and the team that has 19 players loses all their score. Pretty simple i think.

OK the AFL may want to change the rules now to meet current day football and what not, but whats happened, has happened, and the ever so well run AFL if they were switched on enough, would have had things in place to stop this occuring.

What worries me is that their is an employed interchange steward who sits right where the players run on the ground and keeps check on it.

[Mr Magic]

i don't have an issue with the swans 19 man saga. To be honest i'm dissapointed the swans got a fine, as far as i'm aware the rules are clear in saying that in the instance that one team is suspected to have 19 men on the field, the captain of the opposing team can call a head count at any time, and play stops immediately. all players are counted, and the team that has 19 players loses all their score. Pretty simple i think.

OK the AFL may want to change the rules now to meet current day football and what not, but whats happened, has happened, and the ever so well run AFL if they were switched on enough, would have had things in place to stop this occuring.

What worries me is that their is an employed interchange steward who sits right where the players run on the ground and keeps check on it.

and he's the one who brought it to the AFL's attention.
Why didn't he tell the emergency umpire who was sitting near him?
Why didn't he tell the Swans to immediately remove a player?

He had the power to not allow Gehrig to take any further part in a game a while back after he came off the ground in an area outside the interchange 'box'.
How come he had that power but is powerless in this situation?

So many questionsa and as usual so few answers from the AFL.

[Dis Believer]

What I think you seem to miss Plugger is the sheer frustration generated by this "make it up as we go along" spin machine.

The AFL clearly have much coveted target & existing markets, and the teams in those markets consistently fare better from decisions taken by the AFL.

In its sheer arrogance under the current regime, they deny this fact to the general public, despite glaring proof to the contrary. To compound treating the public like dumb assholes, they then also refuse to ever having made a mistake or having any problems, and emit copious amounts of PR spin to try and mask it all.

Case in point: Sirengate: The rules of the game were followed, despite an issue of the umpire failing to hear the siren. The AFL retrospectively changed the outcome, contravening the rules in the process, and claimed at the time that they had a moral obligation to facilitate a "fair" outcome.
Question - what do the AFL see as more important to business, a happy Saints supporter base, or a successful Freo with a happy supporter base?

Sydney/North: THe swans clearly contravened the rules by having an extra man on the field and it influenced the outcome. The AFL hide behind a convenient part of the rules (the mechanism of a headcount called by the opposing captain) and refuse to retrospectively alter the outcome, despite the fact that the rules would make it possible to do so.
Question: Whats m,ore important to the AFL - a happy successful Sydney market or a happy NM supporter base?

To add insult to injury, the AFL then revise history, and make the claim that the reason for the different outcome in the two incidents is that the Sirengate was a result of an AFL official so they had responsibility (no mention of the morals or fairness they claimed at the time) whereas this occasion was the responsibility of the Kangaroos captain - their hands are tied! So now it's up to opposing captains to stamp out cheating, however inadvertant, it's not the AFL's responsibility, they only administer the competition and draw up the Brownlow invite list.

[joffaboy]

Sydney Discount.

[Richter]

Lets apply some common sense......

Common sense says that the Saints did not win the sirengate game. The hooter didn't sound when it should have done. Rectified easily post-hoc. End of story.

The game is being watched by more and more people both live and on TV, memberships of a number of clubs have broken records this year. In this sense the AFL is doing a good job.

This 19 men issue..... did the team with the 19 men gain by having the extra man? Yes, they scored and gained 2 premiership points. They should have the points retrospectively docked and all their points from the game as per the rules.

[plugger66]

Alright I admit it. The AFL hate the Saints. No logic for it but lets face it we get picked on all the time.

As an AFL representative I admit we pick on the saints all the time. I dont even barrack for them. If you go on the Collingwood web site my name is Coventry90 and on the Dons web site it is Reynolds00.

I am now outed so if I say anything about other topics just think it is another AFL representative commenting.

[Bernard Shakey]

At Last!

[Mr Magic]

Alright I admit it. The AFL hate the Saints. No logic for it but lets face it we get picked on all the time.

As an AFL representative I admit we pick on the saints all the time. I dont even barrack for them. If you go on the Collingwood web site my name is Coventry90 and on the Dons web site it is Reynolds00.

I am now outed so if I say anything about other topics just think it is another AFL representative commenting.

I genuinely wanted to debate this issue with you but I can see that once again, when presented with a cogent argument that seems to be difficult to argue against, you revert to your normal sarcastic 'avoid the issue' response.

That's fine, I'm sure there will be other opportunities to try and engage you on this topic as sure as the sun will rise you will post another 'defend the AFL at all costs' response in some other thread.

[plugger66]

Alright I admit it. The AFL hate the Saints. No logic for it but lets face it we get picked on all the time.

As an AFL representative I admit we pick on the saints all the time. I dont even barrack for them. If you go on the Collingwood web site my name is Coventry90 and on the Dons web site it is Reynolds00.

I am now outed so if I say anything about other topics just think it is another AFL representative commenting.

I genuinely wanted to debate this issue with you but I can see that once again, when presented with a cogent argument that seems to be difficult to argue against, you revert to your normal sarcastic 'avoid the issue' response.

That's fine, I'm sure there will be other opportunities to try and engage you on this topic as sure as the sun will rise you will post another 'defend the AFL at all costs' response in some other thread.

I am not debating it because unlike you i couldnt give a stuff what happened 3 years ago. You really need to get over these issues and worry about the present. Or organise threads on all the things that happen to the Saints and in comparision to other clubs. No wonder we have a loser mentality.