Saints playing funeral songs

[JeffDunne]

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/ ... 42,00.html

THE appointment of Ross Lyon to the St Kilda coaching job two years ago was a fashion statement as much as anything else. Suddenly it was "de rigueur" to snatch an untried assistant from under the protective wing of a successful senior coach and turn him into the big banana.

Since 2004, nine clubs have appointed new coaches. Only two - Terry Wallace and Rodney Eade -- came with experience in the main job.

The rest - Alastair Clarkson, Neil Craig, Lyon, Brett Ratten, Dean Bailey, Matthew Knights and Mark Harvey - have emerged from the backroom, blinking into the searchlights of big- time footy and big-time responsibility.

It meant, of course, that, for all the high-powered research of the modern-day coaching recruitment process, a club didn't really know what it was getting when the new man arrived.

Today, almost a season and a half into Lyon's tenure, I would suggest St Kilda still doesn't know.

At the end of the 2006 season St Kilda was convinced it was in need of an antidote to what it perceived as the limited, blinkered approach of the supremely confident Grant Thomas.

It wanted a solid, stable, cautious hand on the tiller, a man steeped in the ever-evolving game strategies and tactics and a product of a successful club.

Step forward Sydney assistant Lyon, courtesy of a bunk-up from his friend and former coach Robert Walls, who was part of the selection panel and now, in his job as a commentator, is trying to shepherd him from the growing discontent among the St Kilda faithful.

Lyon was seen as the man to complete the development of a team rich in natural ability, but supposedly lacking the strategic edge needed to go all the way these days.

Thomas forecast in 2003 that his young group of players had the capacity to play finals for a decade and in that time should win at least two premierships.

It was not considered an outrageous prediction, given it had a depth of burgeoning talent considered superior to most other teams, including the other emerging outfit at the time, Geelong.

Lyon's tactical nous was meant to be the missing link.

The reality, though, is somewhat different. For all the promise that came with his elevation, Lyon has so far been unable to correct the pronounced slide that began in Thomas's final year from a high of third in 2004-2005 to eighth in 2006.

Injuries have played a part but they are a non-issue in this debate, for no club suffered more from unintended absences than St Kilda under Thomas.

Indeed, as its muddled, indecisive football has shown too often this season, rather than going up and down in the one spot, it seems to be going backwards.

Worse, though, is the fact that Lyon has managed to make one of the game's most watchable teams close to unwatchable.

Recently, while trying to defend himself for the umpteenth time against this charge, he invoked an analogy from the arts, saying the coach can write the music but it's the players who have to play it.

The inference was that his team was still having trouble dancing to his tune.

Any observant St Kilda fan would obviously concur, but it's got to be so much harder when it's a funeral dirge rather than a foot-tapping melody.

All AFL clubs are obsessed with the ultimate destination, but when you've reached it just once, as has St Kilda, then you've got to make sure the journey is fun, otherwise you would end up playing to an empty house.

For years St Kilda has been worth the ticket. Even though it may not always have had the rigid discipline of others, it has played with instinctive flair and given a lot of value.

Certainly it knows how to frustrate its followers, but it could also excite the masses like few other teams. Now all it does is frustrate.

Lyon is right when he says he's not turning the Saints into Sydney. Rather, he's turning them to stone.

[the shadow]

It gives me no pleasure to say it, but Trevor Grant has hit the nail on the head. This should be compulsory reading for all those who continue to believe that RL is on the right track. Succinct, insightful and unfortunately correct!

[starsign]

If not apparent before this article signifies the beguinings of the case against RL via the media, and will no doubt open the floodgates.

Perhaps it behoves the playing group to make some kind of stand,
of which I'm not sure...either a sttement of full support, then go out and demonsrtate it with the intensity that we know they are capable of ...

OR any alternative is going to appear worrying and could turn very ugly

Time is fast approaching for the Club Board to make a stand somehow becuse this will only escalate now knowing our footy media mentality

Hang on to your beanies O fellow long term sufferering Sainters!

[saintsrus]

Interesting article

Any of our successes have come from a coach that has Stkilda in his heart ala Alves and Thomas. These guys made our players play from the heart as well.
Apart from the select few as mentioned in a thread days back its a pay check for the rest.

[congorozides]

If not apparent before this article signifies the beguinings of the case against RL via the media, and will no doubt open the floodgates.

Perhaps it behoves the playing group to make some kind of stand,
of which I'm not sure...either a sttement of full support, then go out and demonsrtate it with the intensity that we know they are capable of ...

OR any alternative is going to appear worrying and could turn very ugly

Time is fast approaching for the Club Board to make a stand somehow becuse this will only escalate now knowing our footy media mentality

Hang on to your beanies O fellow long term sufferering Sainters!

well written. very well written.

you cant blame "the media" for everything.
the fact is they have a point. although i dont blame RL. I blame the whole club for poor recruitment and player development from 2005-2008.
thats when they got ahead of themselves and started thinking about the end result - a premiership - rather than sticking to the core business of producing good foot-ball players.

[n1ck]

Well written article.

Says pretty much everything.

[spert]

Geelong faithful wanted the coach's head on the chopping block early last season...Geelong were going nowhere blah blah...we will never get a flag playing like this, blah blah..

See how we go for the rest of the season, then make a judgement on RL and Westaway's crew.

[JeffDunne]

Is it just me that finds the Geelong example a tad ironic when defending Lyon?

[rodgerfox]

Is it just me that finds the Geelong example a tad ironic when defending Lyon?

No.

[SENsei]

Me neither.

But then GT was not sacked for onfield issues, was he?

[spert]

I'm not necessarily defending RL, just pointing out the fickleness of footy supporters and journos. History is a good teacher when we look at how coaches have fared over the years. When we're winning the coaches are great, when we are losing -sack 'em! RL is an oddity, as we are 4-4, play unattractive footy, can't kick a decent score but could easily play in the finals this year..no wonder some are confused. I know many happy Swans supporters who didn't give a stuff about how unattractive their team played once they got the premiership cup.

[rodgerfox]

I know many happy Swans supporters who didn't give a stuff about how unattractive their team played once they got the premiership cup.

I don't really care neccessarily about 'attractive' footy.

I think that's an area of Trevor Grant's article that is offensive to Saints fans. Effectively saying that we're so desperate and have no chance of success historically, that we'd be content with being entertained.

For mine, it's not neccessarily that I'm not happy with playing as ugly as we are - it's that playing ugly doesn't suit our list.

[Dan Warna]

I point to the st kilda v sydney game to show that st kilda CAN play disciplined football.

I have no doubt on our talent.

its just application, or the plan.

[The Fireman]

Good article, with a bit of luck ,criticism like that may spur on some positive change at the club.

[saintsRrising]

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/ ... 42,00.html

THE appointment of Ross Lyon to the St Kilda coaching job two years ago was a fashion statement as much as anything else. Suddenly it was "de rigueur" to snatch an untried assistant from under the protective wing of a successful senior coach and turn him into the big banana.

Since 2004, nine clubs have appointed new coaches. Only two - Terry Wallace and Rodney Eade -- came with experience in the main job.

The rest - Alastair Clarkson, Neil Craig, Lyon, Brett Ratten, Dean Bailey, Matthew Knights and Mark Harvey - have emerged from the backroom, blinking into the searchlights of big- time footy and big-time responsibility.

It meant, of course, that, for all the high-powered research of the modern-day coaching recruitment process, a club didn't really know what it was getting when the new man arrived.

.

Lightweight journalism..

So Assistant coaches are not good as a source for a head coach.....

Cats last year...From Bombers Profile After retiring, he was an assistant coach at Essendon, and later went on to become the senior coach of the Geelong Cats from 2000 onwards.

What a premiership coach was actually an assistant???

Surely a one off...Trevor Grant must be right that assistants are not agood source of head coaches.

WC won the previous flag.

John Worsfold... Woops he was an assistant at Carlton for 2 years.

mmmm Swans... Damn...Roos was an assistant first too..

Now Clarkson must be rubbish too...as must be Craig


But hey....why let the fact that the article is poorly researched with poor conclusions sway you.....it puts the knife into Lyon...so must bea great article

[fonz_#15]

the RL-GT saga is one that idiotic saints fans will never let go.

Ross is in charge at the moment, so we might as well throw our support behind him.

[congorozides]

the RL-GT saga is one that idiotic saints fans will never let go.

Ross is in charge at the moment, so we might as well throw our support behind him.

agree. need to look at the whole club. not just the coach anyway.

[congorozides]

Geelong faithful wanted the coach's head on the chopping block early last season...Geelong were going nowhere blah blah...we will never get a flag playing like this, blah blah..

See how we go for the rest of the season, then make a judgement on RL and Westaway's crew.

true. remember demetriou said the swans were boring and would never win any games...

[JeffDunne]

Trevor Grant must be right that assistants are not agood source of head coaches.

It's amazing how people read what they want to read.

I don't think he even came close to suggesting that.

[saintsRrising]

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/ ... 42,00.html



It meant, of course, that, for all the high-powered research of the modern-day coaching recruitment process, a club didn't really know what it was getting when the new man arrived.
.

Blight to the Saints

Ayres to the Crows

Pagan to the Blues


How did these situations of really knowing what a club was getting go?


Great article though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! despite that it's conclusions are rubbish. Great article as it attacks Lyon

[supersaints]

Mmmm... I'm not usually one to criticize as I am a proud supporter of the club in total, however, the jury is still out on Ross, I am finding it hard to believe that the players cannot understand his gameplan after such a long time, I just dont think his gameplan is sustainable for a whole match. I am fearful that IF we have made a mistake, with the draft picks going to the Gold Coast then Sydney in th next few years we are unlikely to draft sufficient talent to get off the bottom half of the ladder for several years. Don't get me wrong I stood at Moorabin for ten years when we were so bad we would cheer if we kicked the ball the right way we would all cheer, don't want to see that again.. that being said I pray Ross actually is the right man for the job.

[JeffDunne]

Huh?

You're talking about results. Of course you never know that.

I'm sure if we signed Pagan to coach us we could make an educated guess at the type of game plan he'd employ.

Jeez, talk about reading alot into a simple lead-in.

[St DAC]

I read that article by Trevor Grant earlier this morning, and thought it was a large steaming pile of merde. Having taken the opportunity to re-read it, I think it's still a large steaming pile of merde.

When we kicked 6 goals in the first quarter last Friday night we looked entertaining.

When we kicked 7 or 8 goals in the first quarter against the Bulldogs we looked entertaining.

When we kicked 5 goals in the first quarter against Geelong we looked entertaining.


Anyone see a pattern here?


Sustaining the effort appears to be a problem for us, and rebounding when opposition slow our scoring is also a problem. Playing attacking footy as a goal in itself is not; our first quarters have generally been attacking (and thereby) entertaining, the Port match excepted.

I've no doubt under GT we were not defensive enough, and was hoping that's what RL would add to our group. He overdid it in the first half of 2007, then adjusted, and we were pretty good in the second half. This season, we are lacking confidence, run and precision, and other sides are exploiting that. It's not being dour that's our problem; it's being bold enough.

[JeffDunne]

IAnyone see a pattern here?

Yeah I do.

Most people that supported a change in coach seem to grasp at anything in their attempts to justify our recent performances.

[Saints43]

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/ ... 42,00.html

THE appointment of Ross Lyon to the St Kilda coaching job two years ago was a fashion statement as much as anything else. Suddenly it was "de rigueur" to snatch an untried assistant from under the protective wing of a successful senior coach and turn him into the big banana.

Since 2004, nine clubs have appointed new coaches. Only two - Terry Wallace and Rodney Eade -- came with experience in the main job.

The rest - Alastair Clarkson, Neil Craig, Lyon, Brett Ratten, Dean Bailey, Matthew Knights and Mark Harvey - have emerged from the backroom, blinking into the searchlights of big- time footy and big-time responsibility.

It meant, of course, that, for all the high-powered research of the modern-day coaching recruitment process, a club didn't really know what it was getting when the new man arrived.

.

Lightweight journalism..

So Assistant coaches are not good as a source for a head coach.....

The whole point of the paragraphs you reproduced was the following.
Nowhere does it say that assistant coaches should not be promoted.

It meant, of course, that, for all the high-powered research of the modern-day coaching recruitment process, a club didn't really know what it was getting when the new man arrived.

What is the point of pulling four paragraphs out of an article and arguing what has not been said?