Perspective Please...

[Teflon]

Im as dissapointed as anyone with our teams performance but am amazed at the hysterical reactions to a loss many shouldve seen coming weeks ago. Seriously how many expected to beat Sydney in Sydney the way we are currently playing???........did I hear right tonight that we havent beaten em there since 1998 anyway?


We had so many players down who did not play with the effort Luke Ball spoke about in todays Age - Milne ? couple kicks, Ball himself (hes entitled to an off one surely), Harvs?- how often you see it?, Montagna (did this guy even play????), Gwilt?, Geary?. You cant win games of football carrying so many...

We had 1 fwd option. When Lyon attempts to change that and stretch Sydeny in the 3rd qtr we kick 5 goals and at the 26 min mark are within 11 pts.......we lose our only other tall option in Gardiner to a hammy and King hurts his knee? FFS. Not to mention LAME and LAZY player efforts in the last 4 mins allow Sydney to kick 3 goals and put the lead back out to 20+.......that aint game plan......thats effort.

No one enjoys losing but face facts we aint winning squat this year. As mentioned tonight on TV Luke Ball's article today spoke of a guy who does put in the effort and who knows to much is currently being carried at St Kilda by too few......and he sounds frustrated (and so should Hayes).

In the past thats been ok....individual brilliance of a Gehrig or Hamill or Riewoldt himself or Harvs, Hayes etc etc got us by and many others were able to come along for the ride.....now these guys are being asked to stand up and failing miserably. Im amazed Gram (who played a good second half) has been found as wanting as he has this year. And many thought Montagna had become "elite" - has he really? (his tackle rate is 3 per game - Hayes/Ball are around 6.5...). Look at the Dogs - has Cooney taken the next step? Cross? Morris??????........yep and now they no longer RELY on West like we still do Harvey. Not only do they share the workload (Sydney also had 9 seperate goal kickers tonight...hardly rely on Hall) but Eade has clearly spent the last few years shaping a side that KNOWS ist about to lose the likes of Grant, Smith, West etc etc...and hes now bridged that gap.

Anyone who thinks we have this "mix" right now or that magically Ross Lyon is gonna flick a switch and just turn on brillaince is deluded. We have some pain ahead and changes to make....I just hope we hold our nerve for once...

[BackFromUSA]

ok I get it now ... it is untimely injuries in the 3rd quarter (not the lack of moves in the first hlaf) and a complete lack of team effort ... and the list is not that good in fact the mix is all wrong ... not the current coach at all ... now i get it. Thanks.

so does that mean GT is now excused for losing an elimination final in 2006, when we played the last quarter with just 15 fit players ... or was he just a bad coach? Or was the list in decline then too? Hmmm couldn't have been too bad as we won 14 games in 2006 (same as 2005) despite bad injuries to key players ... and were unlucky to be playing an elimination final having just missed out on the top 4 that year.

check my history ... never once since GT was sacked have I said a word about the coaching change ... positive or negative.

I wanted to give Lyon a fair chance.

34 games in (just over half his contract gone) and here is my summary.

CRAP.

Seriously the guy is out coached week in and week out and blames everything but himself. Half the time we lose it at the selection table.

Birss and Armitage out when games on the SCG are won by the team who controls the inside contest? We got smashed in contested ball. But luckily we had a plethora of 6'3" outside / run with players like Gilbert (who I rate but needed some Springy time), Gwilt, and Dempster ... when we already have the likes of Goddard, Blake and Sam Fisher playing that role beautifully.

Too many tall run with / defenders and not enough in the way of inside midfielders ... Birss and Armitage were shocking, stupid, insane ommissions.

When GT was outcoached HE ADMITTED IT.

I am not saying bring back GT.

I am saying that UNLESS Lyon improves, I expect him to walk at years end.

Silvagni, Rock and Barker can go too.

And YES I expect to win every match we play. As I would want the coaches to and the players and any true Saints supporter.

You can only win if you think you can win.

This is NOT a hysterical response after one loss.

[JeffDunne]

.....did I hear right tonight that we havent beaten em there since 1998 anyway?

Christ you talk out of your arse.

We beat them there in 2006.

Remember, when the team coached itself?

[Teflon]

.....did I hear right tonight that we havent beaten em there since 1998 anyway?

Christ you talk out of your arse.

We beat them there in 2006.

Remember, when the team coached itself?

Its what was mentioned on the broadcast I didnt say we did merely asked if it was correct.

Get to bed you look tired...

[St.Kenny]

You are RL's biggest apologists Teflogger and you still have blood on your hands over GT. I am convinced you are an infiltrator who is determined to see St.Kilda in peril. Congratulations ...your work is done.

[JeffDunne]

You don't remember that game from 2006?

Are you serious?

[BackFromUSA]

Teflon - no comment on my post? OK so does that mean you agree?

[dcstkfc]

Indeed, that game in 06 was what inspired me to start a saintsational account, as i needed somewhere to share my love for Roo and Harves.

[Teflon]

ok I get it now ... it is untimely injuries in the 3rd quarter (not the lack of moves in the first hlaf) and a complete lack of team effort ... and the list is not that good in fact the mix is all wrong ... not the current coach at all ... now i get it. Thanks.

so does that mean GT is now excused for losing an elimination final in 2006, when we played the last quarter with just 15 fit players ... or was he just a bad coach? Or was the list in decline then too? Hmmm couldn't have been too bad as we won 14 games in 2006 (same as 2005) despite bad injuries to key players ... and were unlucky to be playing an elimination final having just missed out on the top 4 that year.

check my history ... never once since GT was sacked have I said a word about the coaching change ... positive or negative.

I wanted to give Lyon a fair chance.

34 games in (just over half his contract gone) and here is my summary.

CRAP.

Seriously the guy is out coached week in and week out and blames everything but himself. Half the time we lose it at the selection table.

Birss and Armitage out when games on the SCG are won by the team who controls the inside contest? We got smashed in contested ball. But luckily we had a plethora of 6'3" outside / run with players like Gilbert (who I rate but needed some Springy time), Gwilt, and Dempster ... when we already have the likes of Goddard, Blake and Sam Fisher playing that role beautifully.

Too many tall run with / defenders and not enough in the way of inside midfielders ... Birss and Armitage were shocking, stupid, insane ommissions.

When GT was outcoached HE ADMITTED IT.

I am not saying bring back GT.

I am saying that UNLESS Lyon improves, I expect him to walk at years end.

Silvagni, Rock and Barker can go too.

And YES I expect to win every match we play. As I would want the coaches to and the players and any true Saints supporter.

You can only win if you think you can win.

This is NOT a hysterical response after one loss.

Oh FFS this IS a hysterical rant give yourself an uppercut.

Who said Lyon coaches perfectly drama queen? I didnt but if your telling me we are playing the way we are cause its all "coacjh and game plan" thats complete RUBBISH - and while your at it you better tell Luke Ball WHO HAS ALSO lamented the LACK OF EFFORT from players FFS.

You obviously like your coaches to apologise - we got one so often from "GT" so that impressed you. Fair enough I got sick of it to be honest.

As for your "we lost it at selection" myth - your trying to tell me had we had "armo" and Birss (whose all of a sudden on here a superstar - last year was a cabbage many wanted sacked...) that wouldve been the difference? get real FFS.....have a look at the on field effort from so many pretenders - check out Milne, Montagna, Dal sanot efforts FFS.....even Ball/Harvs had quiet games and you reackon we lost it at selection - your dreaming.

No ones excusing the coach. He needs to improve buit it just makes you feel "warm" to hear it?....does it????... Your clearly "lining up" with the flock to blame it all upon him with NO REGARD for player effort and thats lazy and lame and lets the real problem off the hook.

Judging from your above post the list is still in 04/05 shape I take it? so no excuse for Lyon...yeah?

[Teflon]

Teflon - no comment on my post? OK so does that mean you agree?

My apologies fpor the delay I had to vomit.

[jonesy]

Thought we were ok tonight.

Clearly had a dip, umpires were insipid at best,probably bordered on cheating for much of the game.

Was just a case of good old fashioned 'not good enough ' tonight

[Teflon]

Thought we were ok tonight.

Clearly had a dip, umpires were insipid at best,probably bordered on cheating for much of the game.

Was just a case of good old fashioned 'not good enough ' tonight

Cant agree Jonesy.

We were within 11 pts at the 26 minute mark fo the 3rd and allowed 3 easy swans goals and our second qtr was insipid.

We were good in patches and thats the story of the season.

[St.Kenny]

Oh gawd still crappin on about lists and recruiting ahead of results?
What a bloody smokescreen. Go lie in your losers bed mate and give us all a rest.

[jonesy]

Thought we were ok tonight.

Clearly had a dip, umpires were insipid at best,probably bordered on cheating for much of the game.

Was just a case of good old fashioned 'not good enough ' tonight

Cant agree Jonesy.

We were within 11 pts at the 26 minute mark fo the 3rd and allowed 3 easy swans goals and our second qtr was insipid.

We were good in patches and thats the story of the season.

Yeah didnt see it that way. We were in touch in the third,but then they went bang bang bang, Last part of the 2nd wasn't good. Overall we were ok,we weren't on a level playing field at any stage....any i'd rarily say that about an afl match. If it was at home we may have won...would of been 10 points either way

[BackFromUSA]

hmmm calling me a drama queen. nice one.

in my honest opinion the list is in BETTER shape than 2004 / 5 / 6 because the core of the list is in the sweet spot you want it to be 22 - 28.

They are simply poorly coached.

And selection decisions do make a huge difference to a game.

I hope that I have responded without lowering myself to insults or infering that your post was vomit worthy.

we are just posting opinions and views here ... no need to be insulting.

[JeffDunne]

"I can't accept continually losing and going in with the same cattle."

[BackFromUSA]

and this bit worries me ...

Lyon explained that one of the current problems with the Saints was that the team was “predictableâ€

[BackFromUSA]

and this bit is a worry too

he said. “We've got 10 weeks to develop the players and the type of football we want. We want to compete consistently with one-on-one football.

Why are we deveoping players now? It should have been done in pre-season training, pre-season games and bit by bit during the season ...

And here is the root of the problem ... bloody one on one football where we are more worried about our man than the footy OR running off our man and making them chase us ... time and time again I see players peel away from the contest chasing their man rather than go get the footy which was there for them.

[plugger66]

Not sure Milney will ever make a back pocket but he did try something as some losers want on here. I reckon getting pissed before a game maybe a good idea as well. We haven done that since the Saints Disco in the 80's.

[aussierules0k]

[BackFromUSA]

plugger66 - blind freddy can see that Milney isnt a back pocket

my issue is that he made one lot of wholesale changes that were meant to throw the oppositions planning but once they caught onto it ... they adjusted and went forward ... we had no next move and went backwards

Lyon outcoached Roos for 20 minutes.

[Teflon]

hmmm calling me a drama queen. nice one.

in my honest opinion the list is in BETTER shape than 2004 / 5 / 6 because the core of the list is in the sweet spot you want it to be 22 - 28.

They are simply poorly coached.

And selection decisions do make a huge difference to a game.

I hope that I have responded without lowering myself to insults or infering that your post was vomit worthy.

we are just posting opinions and views here ... no need to be insulting.

sorry to be insulting the tone of your first post was insulting so I treated it accordingly.

For an opinion to suggest we are in a "sweet spot" cause of simple age is pointless and simplistic. At what stage has for any length of time X, Kosi, Maguire, Raph, Ball (last 3 yrs), Baker been in their prime? Being in your prime isnt just about age so thats a cop out for mine and to suggest these guys have stopped their developing in 1.5 yrs under Lyon ignores some larger underlying problems in my view.

At times we are being outplayed at present at other times we are on top of good sides. Point is I dont believe we are losing games SOLELY cause Lyon is being out coached every second qtr and then suddenly becoming a good coach when we get on top - your over playing what a coach can really do from the box IMHO and at the same time downplaying a basic player requirement once they cross the white line - EFFORT. We didnt look outcoached against Collingwood? or 6 goals up against the Dogs in rd 3 or last weeks qtr 1? or against Geelong first half ???? WHY????

The answer IMO is mental. We are struggling to sustain the intensity and when sides invariably lift we dont go with them until the last when its to late. One thing I was please with tonight was the 3rd qtr (for most of it anyway) - we had a go, Lyon made some changes both midfield and up forward and we started to score and run........but again....mentally stopped and allowed the Swans the last 3 goals in junk time.

Thats NOT the game plan OR the coach. Thats players, effort and intensity (and ehen we cant kick straight - SKILL). Lyon isnt blameless that to me is obvious so theres no point carping on about it like a Jeff but it isnt our major problem.

Thats just my opinion - insultless.

[plugger66]

plugger66 - blind freddy can see that Milney isnt a back pocket

my issue is that he made one lot of wholesale changes that were meant to throw the oppositions planning but once they caught onto it ... they adjusted and went forward ... we had no next move and went backwards

Lyon outcoached Roos for 20 minutes.

And your point is? 20 minutes more than he does all year if you ask me.

[Teflon]

Oh and that pace issue ... isn't that a selection issue combined with a coaching instruction issue re holding the ball up rather than playing on?

Do point out thet stockpile of pace we have in reserve just waiting to be called up?

Birss? or Armo?...

[JeffDunne]

Could someone please tell me who was playing on Goodes tonight?