i cant forgive GT

[Con Gorozidis]

Can somone please explain why GT got rid of Brent Guerra and Heath Black and kept Blake & Fiora. Guerra is BOG today

defies belief for me.

[clarky449]

Heath Black was ment to leave in 2003 but the paperwork for him to leave was submitted after the deadlock so he could'nt change teams. The plan was for him to go home after 2004 season and thats what he did so he left because he wanted to go back home.

[Life Long Saint]

Guerra seemed to pick and choose when he played well.

He also had the great ability to play possum when tackled. He got pinged for holding the ball far too often.

He had a brilliant 2004 and a poor 2005. I'd be surprised if he wasn't offered up for trade but no body would have been willing to pay anything worthwhile for him...Similar boat to when he left Port Adelaide.

Maybe it's a case that he knows that the Hawks represented his last chance and he is doing the work that is required to play AFL consistently at the top level.

[bigmicka]

Heath Blacks wife wanted to go home. Heath is Victorian.

mic

[skeptic]

Heath Black left... he was a required player. We got what we could for him. Ultimately i think he wanted an easier ride... went back to Freo and rather than play the match winning midfield footy he did in 2004, he decided that he'd rather get paid more to have the ball handed to him on a HBF. Fair enough i guess but his career has gone nowhere... was capable of big things

Guerra wasn't performing.
Personally I don't think he's a very good player now anyway. Hangs out on a HBF getting easy kicks in an all conquering midfield; does some nice things here and there but would crumble w/o the support. We wouldn't really have a spot for him anyway. Don't need more of that type of player.
The best football of his career was for us and he wasn't willing to work hard enough to maintain that position.

[ace]

Thomas did not get rid of Heath Black.
Heath Black got rid of Heath Black.

Black came to St Kilda to get more money.
When his contract came up for renewal and he could not get an exhorbitant contract he choose to go back to Fremantle.

Thomas was highly critical of him at the time.
Black had pushed to be included in the leadership group at the start of the season and then turned into a rat at the end of the season.
He had already agreed with Fremantle.

Thomas had two choices - force Black to take a low risk of some club interfering with his return to Fremantle in the preseason draft and get nothing for him OR enable a trade.

Thomas knew that Troy Simmonds was going to Richmond so he arranged a trade that would enable the two moves.
He knew that he would get the worse of the three way trade but getting Fiora as a back up player was better than getting nothing.

[super dooper]

Heath Blacks wife wanted to go home. Heath is Victorian.

mic

You know what makes me even more angry, im pretty sure he is divorced now!! She fell into the WA crowd if you know what i mean Very frustrating

[ace]

Yes, Thomas was wrong in getting rid of Guerra.
Coaches look at players and the team needs and coaching needs.
They then pidgeon hole a player into a role.
Thomas wanted Guerra to play as a small half forward flanker or forward pocket.
Guerra did not meet Thomas' expectations.

What Thomas did wrong was he did not explore what else he could do with Guerra.

Just because a player does not meet the teams or coaches needs does not mean he can't be a valuable player to the team in another role.

Dal Santo does not meet Ross Lyon's needs because he is a lousy defensive player.
But that does not mean he can not be of value as an attacking player who attracts the opposition's best tagger thus freeing up a teammate from this same tagger.

Dal

[ausfatcat]

Thomas did not get rid of Heath Black.
Heath Black got rid of Heath Black.

Black came to St Kilda to get more money.
When his contract came up for renewal and he could not get an exhorbitant contract he choose to go back to Fremantle.

Thomas was highly critical of him at the time.
Black had pushed to be included in the leadership group at the start of the season and then turned into a rat at the end of the season.
He had already agreed with Fremantle.

Thomas had two choices - force Black to take a low risk of some club interfering with his return to Fremantle in the preseason draft and get nothing for him OR enable a trade.

Thomas knew that Troy Simmonds was going to Richmond so he arranged a trade that would enable the two moves.
He knew that he would get the worse of the three way trade but getting Fiora as a back up player was better than getting nothing.

I think you remember things slightly wrongly Ace

He left freo to come to Victoria because of home sickness and took the biest contract offered to him from a Vic club (which is pretty natural thing to do). His wife due to leaving her home (was from WA) after a couple of years wanted to go back home which caused marriage problems for Heath so he did the right thing to try and save his marriage and asked for a trade back to Freo, as above in 2003 a trade was supposedly agreed but was lodged late he had one year remaining on his contract so stayed for 2004.

At the end of 2004 the saints were held over a barrel by Freo as Black was going with or without a traded. We had three options Simmonds in a straight trade (which didn't work because he wanted a big 5 year deal that Richmond offered) or Fiora or nothing.

GT if I remember was disappointed in losing Black but it wasn't because of money and he wasn't critical of him either because of money. He moved because of underlining personal issues (ie marriage I think his wife had even moved back to Perth about halfway through the season). This happens and it should be respected as he tried to do the right thing.

[Shaggy]

I liked Goo a lot but he only picked up 14 possessions in 5 finals games for us.

It probably wasn't the reason why he was dumped but he was very disappointing when it counted.

[krabb]

[quote="ace"]Yes, Thomas was wrong in getting rid of Guerra.
Coaches look at players and the team needs and coaching needs.

[quote]

Thomas was dead right getting rid of the fat unfit pr1ck.

He had issues on and off the field..

So he finally 'gets it' that he's on his last chance at Hawthorn...who cares?

[3rd generation saint]

The really bad thing about Black's paperwork being lodged late in 2003 and the trade falling through is that the player we would have got in return was Dean Cox.
He may have made a big difference to our premiership aspirations 2004 -05.

[Ralphy]

The really bad thing about Black's paperwork being lodged late in 2003 and the trade falling through is that the player we would have got in return was Dean Cox.
He may have made a big difference to our premiership aspirations 2004 -05.

how would we have got dean cox?

[3rd generation saint]

It was part of a three way deal, between us Freo and West Coast.

Don't forget Gardiner was the best ruckman going around then by a mile and Cox was considered an expendable luxury.

Not sure who WC would have got from Freo.

Someone on this forum must know more details?

[ausfatcat]

The really bad thing about Black's paperwork being lodged late in 2003 and the trade falling through is that the player we would have got in return was Dean Cox.
He may have made a big difference to our premiership aspirations 2004 -05.

Wrong


The saints were after Cox towards the end of that season and he had agreed to come over but then Gardiner went down so he got his opportunity and changed his mind about coming over, that trade was not going to happen regardless of Blacks they were two seperate trades.

[saint66au]

Did I miss something? Is Brent Guerra the first player ever to play well after changing clubs?? Try mentioning David Rodan's name to Tigers fan and se what reaction you get.

IIRC Guerra was delisted with the very best wishes of all at Saintsational

Oh and Con G your Av is still a bit big

[Eastern]

Heath Blacks wife wanted to go home. Heath is Victorian.

mic

Heath Black's wife (is she still his wife?) is origonally from the Ringwood-Croydon area. I think she moved to WA in her teens. It was a combination of her and money that took him back to WA !!

[ace]

What a wimp.
Blaming his wife when it was all about the money.
Did not have the integrity to admit that he was filthy rat.

[Otiman]

Maybe his wife wanted the money.

[skeptic]

Yes, Thomas was wrong in getting rid of Guerra.
Coaches look at players and the team needs and coaching needs.
They then pidgeon hole a player into a role.
Thomas wanted Guerra to play as a small half forward flanker or forward pocket.
Guerra did not meet Thomas' expectations.

What Thomas did wrong was he did not explore what else he could do with Guerra.

who's spot would u give up for his...


there was no room for him

[joffaboy]

What a wimp.
Blaming his wife when it was all about the money.
Did not have the integrity to admit that he was filthy rat.

His dumb wife actually gave up the lying pr!ck in an interview where she said she was very happy in Melbourne and had settled very well. This was after Black put around his wife was homesick and wanted to go home.

Black was a lying scum with no character who was just after the money. Landed in the right place back at freo who have no character or integrity.

Where was the little scumbag last night?

[st_Trav_ofWA]

Heath Black is in the same basket as Spida Everitt ..... below pond scum nothing brings me more joy then the fact that he is now under pressure in the WA media beacuse the dockers shocking year ... i would never wish injury on any player but if he never plays again it will be too soon