The Fox Report - 18/8/08

[rodgerfox]

Well, well, well. Looks like this is the way it's gonna be doesn't it?

Come out and play poorly, with no system, no enthusiasm and basically look like a ressies team.

Then come out after half time and either blow a side away, or send out the ressies team again.


The hardest thing about this is, that it keeps us hanging on to hope. We are good enough.

I still maintain, that on our day, we can beat Geelong. Granted, they would need to be slightly off their game on that same given day.

The rest I'm not worried about. Hawks, Dogs etc. are ordinary. Good, but not great. Very, very beatable.


Now back to yesterday.....

Freo aren't a bad side. I believe they have lost about 7 or 8 close games. they could have quite easily have been jostling for a finals spot given some luck.

Also, it was in Perth. We suck in Perth. It was warm too.

A good win. The question is, so what if it was a good win? What does it mean?

Some would say it means we are one game closer to playing finals. Some would say that playing finals if you're not a legitimate contender is a waste of everyone's time.

I'm somewhere in the middle. Everything needs to be about where we're heading. Playing finals if we're just making up the numbers, and on a downward slide, is a waste of time.
Playing finals if we're capable of winning it, and still have a 'window' of a couple of years ahead of us, is certainly not a waste of time.

I think we're closer to the latter. However, whether or not we're a contender is I suppose the real question.

Some are happy with the win. Get piised that night, wake happy to read the papers and relax for the rest of the weekend.

Others are only happy if we're on track for a flag at sometime in the near future.

I appreciate both views.

But as I said, week by week, it get's more and more confusing as to whether or not we are on track for a flag!


So, what about Milney ey? That was as gutsy an effort I've seen for a while. The best thing about the weekend was being able to turn off the commentary on Foxtel! Talk about sliced bread being a good invention, that old saying needs review!! Muting the commentators clearly has sliced bread's measure.

When Dwayne Russell and Glen Jakovich donned the mics on Sunday, I was shattered. Muting them was a godsend.

Anyway, back to Milney. Russell (before I muted him) was spruiking that he can't play away from Docklands and associating it with him being Ko'd! Such poor timing, lack of respect and frankly in bad taste. Pretty much par for Dwayne Russell.

Anyway, for Milney to come back on, kick important goals, get important ball up the ground and contest - with one eye and clearly in pain, was a magic effort.

Similar to Cain Ackland in the QF of 2005, a gutsy effort that I won't forget.


Rooey is a pretty good leader these days. Can't kick still, but gets enough of it now to balance out the misses. I still really don't like out use of him as a power forward.
He needs freedom, and even on Sunday some of his best work was in contested ground ball.

I've said it before - Roo is a very, very good HFF. Probably the best ever. So good at it, that he plays that role basically like a CHF/FF. We need to play him as a true HFF.

His domain is anywhere from the goal square to the HB flank.

He is strong. Hasn't lost any mobility with the added size - infact is probably better below the knees than ever. The way his teammates congratulated him after goals, had an air of 'awe' about it. This included guys like Charlie Gardiner and Adam Schneider who have played along some pretty handy footballers.

He is a very, very good footballer. He'as carried this club this year. And under extreme adversity.


Kosi was good again as a ruckman around the ground. Took a few good grabs, drifted forward and had shots at goal. Clearly this is the role he needs to play.

Lenny Hayes is a freak. Such a good footballer. Can't say any more about him - except what if. What if he didn't do his knee in 06? Sigh. Oh well.


A couple of negatives........the day Gwilt had. I like Gwilt. I've been a fan of him since he came to the club, and I really want him to do well. But like so many in our team right now, he is not being used properly.
But gee did he have a shocker yesterday. Slipping over, fumbling. One he'd rather forget I'm sure.

But the best bit? Late in the game, he stuffed up yet again - but chased hard and won the ball back by running his man down from behind. Brilliant effort. I can handle guys having ordinary games - but as Luke Darcy said once, "the one thing you can control in a gmae of footy is how hard you work". Very wise words. And looks like Jimmy has been listening.




By the way, we'll beat Adelaide.

[JeffDunne]

Playing finals can be a waste of time?

[rodgerfox]

Playing finals can be a waste of time?

Yes. Alot of people believe that.

Some even believe playing finals prematurely can infact have a negative effect on teams.

A severe beating in a final can cause irrepairable physchological damage.

I personally don't. Playing finals is generally a good thing for all involved if you ask me.

[JeffDunne]

Thank God for that Rodger.

I'm not sure too many actually believe it TBH. It strikes me as of one those stupid things people say in football when they're trying to demonstrate a deeper understanding of the game. A bit like "we'd have sacked him even if we'd won a flag".

[rodgerfox]

One other thing which I noticed was how often and keenly we switched play in the back half.

I think this could be our biggest flaw right now.

Switching is fine, but I almost see it as an easy way out as opposed to taking a risk by moving directly forward.

If you watch the replay, the big swing was in how many times we switched play slowly and predictably in the first half, as opposed to moving it quickly through the guts in the second half.

Perhaps certain guys (like Max) get the ball too much at certain times and use the switch as an easy, low risk option. Meanwhile, Lyon tries to work out ways to get the ball int the hands of Gram, Sam Fisher, BJ etc. who will take a risk up the middle?

[rodgerfox]

Thank God for that Rodger.

I'm not sure too many actually believe it TBH. It strikes me as of one those stupid things people say in football when they're trying to demonstrate a deeper understanding of the game. A bit like "we'd have sacked him even if we'd won a flag".

Robert Walls loves it.

So, you're probably spot on.

[desertsaint]

Playing finals is generally a good thing for all involved if you ask me.

generally?

what else do we play for? is the season a waste for 15 teams every year?

I once was fortunate enough to tour with an underage rep side in holland (indoor soccer) - we knew we had little chance of winning but playing higher level sport was definitely a good thing - despite some thrashings - made us all better players and just as importantly we enjoyed the experience!

Not having a go at you - didn't get the game here so good to read your reports!

[bozza1980]

Anyway, back to Milney. Russell (before I muted him) was spruiking that he can't play away from Docklands and associating it with him being Ko'd! Such poor timing, lack of respect and frankly in bad taste. Pretty much par for Dwayne Russell.

That pi55ed me off too!!!

Has the St Kilda Footy Club done something to Dwayne Russell at some stage because he finds it hard to say anything slightly positive about us.

I remember his commentary of the Port game, we were farting around with the ball trying to run down the clock and he was going on about how negative we were. Nearing half time Port were winding down the clock and he couldn't find enough superlatives to describe how smart Port were to wind down the clock.

He was at it again yesterday early in the game when we led, all he could say was how Freo were playing us off the park. Then when we made our move in the 3rd quarter all he could comment on was Freo's poor kicking.

Foxtel should have left him out in the cold once Nine lost the footy rights, he is quite possibly the worst commentator out there.

Talking about foxtel, how poor is their choice of camera angles. There was a period of about 1-2mins were the camera from behind the goals was used, possibly 5 passes up to the wing before they changed the angle.

[rodgerfox]

Playing finals is generally a good thing for all involved if you ask me.

generally?

what else do we play for? is the season a waste for 15 teams every year?

I once was fortunate enough to tour with an underage rep side in holland (indoor soccer) - we knew we had little chance of winning but playing higher level sport was definitely a good thing - despite some thrashings - made us all better players and just as importantly we enjoyed the experience!

Not having a go at you - didn't get the game here so good to read your reports!

Geelong wouldn't have Joel Selwood if they made it in 2006.

[Otiman]

Geelong wouldn't have Joel Selwood if they made it in 2006.

And we wouldn't have had David Armitage. What's your point?

[rodgerfox]

Geelong wouldn't have Joel Selwood if they made it in 2006.

And we wouldn't have had David Armitage. What's your point?

I thought it was obvious?

That in some cases, not making the finals when you would have just made up the numbers anyway, sometimes is a good thing.

Which is why I said 'generally' it good to make the 8.

[Otiman]

Geelong wouldn't have Joel Selwood if they made it in 2006.

And we wouldn't have had David Armitage. What's your point?

I thought it was obvious?

That in some cases, not making the finals when you would have just made up the numbers anyway, sometimes is a good thing.

Which is why I said 'generally' it good to make the 8.

The difference between 7th and 10th draft picks isn't that huge, certainly worth having a crack at some finals, and getting some finals experience into your players.

Besides, I'd take a 2 pick downgrade to be guaranteed finals at the start of the year.

[rodgerfox]

Besides, I'd take a 2 pick downgrade to be guaranteed finals at the start of the year.

Well I guess that's the debate.

Joel Selwood and 9th. Or David Armitage and 6th?

[Otiman]

Joel Selwood and 9th. Or David Armitage and 6th?

That's easy in hindsight, but optimistic supporters may have considered 6th a "shot at a premiership" at the time.

[rodgerfox]

Joel Selwood and 9th. Or David Armitage and 6th?

That's easy in hindsight, but optimistic supporters may have considered 6th a "shot at a premiership" at the time.

Sure. As I said, that's the debate.

[saintsRrising]

You do not normally get a Joel Selwod at 9th (pick 7) though.


The Cats did exceptionally well, even if it was a "superdraft" year.

Normally you would be better off by getting some finals experience into your list.

[Spinner]

Joel Selwood and 9th. Or David Armitage and 6th?

That's easy in hindsight, but optimistic supporters may have considered 6th a "shot at a premiership" at the time.

Pretty hard walking to the car that Friday night asking myself.....Had the finals started already?

Didn't feel part of it at all.....We exited so fast it made my head spin.

[ThePunter]

Really thoughtful report.

Russell has an excuse when we play Port Adelaide or Geelong - he played for those guys. But he hates St Kilda. I thought Jakovich was much better on Sunday than during the West Coast game, but he has an excuse when West Coast play. He was fairer in his call, but he doesn't have much of a clue.

Finals provide more than 1 senior games' experience. It's like a fast forward for a players development.

The 22 players who played yesterday (with number of games played and number of finals played):

Jason Gram 72 games, 1 final
Steven King 210 games, 10 finals
Lenny Hayes 187 games, 5 finals
Max Hudghton 222 games, 10 finals
Leigh Montagna 93 games, 3 finals
Nick Riewoldt 153 games, 6 finals
Adam Schneider 112 games, 12 finals
Raphael Clarke 36 games, 3 finals
Brendan Goddard 108 games, 5 finals
Sam Gilbert 34 games, 0 finals
Justin Koschitzke 114 games, 4 finals
Sean Dempster 71 games, 8 finals
Sam Fisher 91 games, 2 finals
Nick Dal Santo 139 games, 6 finals
Jason Blake 131 games, 5 finals
Charlie Gardiner 60 games, 4 finals
Andrew McQualter 32 games, 0 finals
James Gwilt 21 games, 2 finals
Robert Harvey 378 games, 14 finals
Clinton Jones 21 games, 0 finals
Robert Eddy 8 games, 0 finals
Stephen Milne 160 games, 5 finals

So we have 5 players who have never played in a final, and only three who have played in at least ten. We also have six players who have played under 50 games. At Geelong that number would be 2 or 3 under 50 games, with everyone except Lonergan having played in a final.

The benefit of playing a final against Collingwood at the MCG would be huge. Playing Sydney or Adelaide at Telstra Dome not so much, but they would probably get another final as we would be favoured to win.

[Spinner]

Raph Clarke only 35 games......f***.

[HarveysDeciple]

Besides, I'd take a 2 pick downgrade to be guaranteed finals at the start of the year.

Well I guess that's the debate.

Joel Selwood and 9th. Or David Armitage and 6th?

It's only a debate in hindsight though, the other sides letting selwood get through to pick 7 was a mistake.....

Cats should have missed the finals and Selwood.

[Red]

Rodger your right we are the best side never to win an AFL premiership.

All those teams above us on the ladder are s*** and the only reason we

haven't won the cup is because the coaches are s***, admin is s***, etc etc.

But the players we have are the most talented band ever put together and

all they need is someone to inspire them because being true professionals

they need someone to hold their hands.

[starsign]

........the day Gwilt had. I like Gwilt. I've been a fan of him since he came to the club, and I really want him to do well. But like so many in our team right now, he is not being used properly.
But gee did he have a shocker yesterday. Slipping over, fumbling. One he'd rather forget I'm sure.

Good stuff Roger!

With Gwilty he looked a bit lost and all at sea , which I guess switching him about so much has to be a contributing factor
Given his background and the fact that he is still very inexperienced , I think we've been asking a bit much He really needs to be left to settle in a role IMHO but I guess they just haven't been able to do it unfortunately

[StSteven]

Rodger your right we are the best side never to win an AFL premiership.

All those teams above us on the ladder are s*** and the only reason we

haven't won the cup is because the coaches are s***, admin is s***, etc etc.

But the players we have are the most talented band ever put together and

all they need is someone to inspire them because being true professionals

they need someone to hold their hands.

It would be interesting to get peoples views (ie a fan review) of what are the factors that have caused the following.

In 2004 Geelong and St Kilda were rated as the future "glamour" teams of the AFL. We were creditted as having a great list, GT coulkd "smell the premierships coming". Today Geelong is rated by the critics as one of the beast teams of all time (lost 2 games since beginning of 2007). Saints are hoping to scrape into eight.

a) What caused this and what are the lessons learnt?

Please discuss in less than 1000 words!

[Quixote]

He is strong. Hasn't lost any mobility with the added size - infact is probably better below the knees than ever. The way his teammates congratulated him after goals, had an air of 'awe' about it. This included guys like Charlie Gardiner and Adam Schneider who have played along some pretty handy footballers.

He is a very, very good footballer. He'as carried this club this year. And under extreme adversity.

Yes, very true Rodger - and perhaps an understatement.

Roo is possibly the most influential captain in the competition - who would be ahead of him? Kirk, Harley, Judd? Maybe, but probably not.

He is a WEAPON, its simple - and yes, we will beat the Crows.

[saintsRrising]

Gwilt is still "learning" the game.

One piece of play summed up to me where Gwilt is currently at.

Banger won the ball....and feinted.

Now Banger only ever handballs when it is good to so...that his target is free in a good position...and the opponent trying to spoil Bnager is wrong footed.

On this occassion Banger summed up the situation and was right to go almost immediately, and did not have to "hang" onto it.

Bang it went to Gwilt...who was not ready for it and dropped a perfect hanball to him. Gwilt had not "read" the play, and anticipatedd what may happen.

Gwilt has many great athletic gifts, and has already learnt many football skills such as kicking.

However he still lacks in reading the "play" and in knowing what the right football thing is to do = judgement.

Now this may come with experience, or it may not.

If it comes, then Gwilt will be a good footballer, maybe eve very good.

If not then he will continue to make bad decisions and get wrong footed from time to time, while at other times having you gasping at his class.