Why have we never been successful

[plugger66]

Was listening to the Hawks CEO today and he was saying they have won 9 flags since 1961 and he also mentioned the nearly folded 10 years ago but have since regrouped and are back in the GF.

We on the other hand have won one flag in 111 years and apart from the SOS campaign we havent looked like merging or folding in the last 40 years. it must have something to do with our culture why we havent been able to win the big prize.

1997 favourites and failed. 2005 favourites in the PF and failed and of course other chances. We have had many good draft picks in the last 8 years and even though we have had a degree of success we missed out when it mattered. Geelong have never had a top 3 pick and yes they have had good Father Son but even that is less than our top picks.

Are we just happy with a little success. I have no idea. In the 90's we had some of the greatest players to ever play AFL footy and couldnt win the big one. Has anyone got any ideas what is wrong with our club and what can we as supporters do to help this club win the ultimate prize.

[Otiman]

never?

[plugger66]

never?

Sorry Why have we had one successful year in 111 then. Is that better.

[markp]

What years did the draft and salary cap come in?

[plugger66]

What years did the draft and salary cap come in?

At a guess 1987 for the draft. Salary cap not sure. I suppose that should be the time we messure success from. In that case we have alot of chances and still havent got over the line as I know a few others havent either but it seems the ones who havent got over the line are the ones who have had an unsuccessful last 20 yearas well apart from the Swans and Geelong who finally have broken their drought. Maybe our turn is coming but it is taking a long friggin time.

[WinnersOnly]

The club has a history of poor administration and lack of business acumen has been the most costly over time...

[Con Gorozidis]

poor culure. lots of stupid guys running the place.

[plugger66]

poor culure. lots of stupid guys running the place.

If that is the case and that is exactly what my old man says and he has followed them for 70 years have we got the right people now?

[Mr X from the West]

Failure to win a Premiership has nothing to do with any Club's "culture"....Geelong have proven that.

Geelong have also proven, like many more Premiers before them, that cattle wins Flags.

We need better cattle. That's all.

[plugger66]

Failure to win a Premiership has nothing to do with any Club's "culture"....Geelong have proven that.

Geelong have also proven, like many more Premiers before them, that cattle wins Flags.

We need better cattle. That's all.

So Winmar,Plugger,Harvs,Loewe,Burkie and Frawley in the one side wasnt good enough. Surely ther is more in it than that over 111 years

[Mr X from the West]

Failure to win a Premiership has nothing to do with any Club's "culture"....Geelong have proven that.

Geelong have also proven, like many more Premiers before them, that cattle wins Flags.

We need better cattle. That's all.

So Winmar,Plugger,Harvs,Loewe,Burkie and Frawley in the one side wasnt good enough. Surely ther is more in it than that over 111 years

Short answer. No.

[St Fidelius]

What years did the draft and salary cap come in?

At a guess 1987 for the draft. Salary cap not sure. I suppose that should be the time we messure success from. In that case we have alot of chances and still havent got over the line as I know a few others havent either but it seems the ones who havent got over the line are the ones who have had an unsuccessful last 20 yearas well apart from the Swans and Geelong who finally have broken their drought. Maybe our turn is coming but it is taking a long friggin time.

1986 was the first year of the draft.

We picked up the following...

#2 Stevens Sims
#15 Andrew Wickham
#28 Darren Mansell
#41 Brett Jeffray
#54 Paul Page

[plugger66]

Failure to win a Premiership has nothing to do with any Club's "culture"....Geelong have proven that.

Geelong have also proven, like many more Premiers before them, that cattle wins Flags.

We need better cattle. That's all.

So Winmar,Plugger,Harvs,Loewe,Burkie and Frawley in the one side wasnt good enough. Surely ther is more in it than that over 111 years

Short answer. No.

We must have been unlucky as well then if we have only ever had one year of having the best side in 111 years. Afterall on averages we should have had at least 7-8 years of having the best side. Why havent we had the best side then?

[markp]

What years did the draft and salary cap come in?

At a guess 1987 for the draft. Salary cap not sure. I suppose that should be the time we messure success from. In that case we have alot of chances and still havent got over the line as I know a few others havent either but it seems the ones who havent got over the line are the ones who have had an unsuccessful last 20 yearas well apart from the Swans and Geelong who finally have broken their drought. Maybe our turn is coming but it is taking a long friggin time.

I think pre then it was slanted towards the bigger Vic clubs, and since then it's slanted towards the interstate clubs.... it's a mixture of resources, stability, management and luck... perhaps culture can affect two of those things.

[ozrulestrace]

Why are we sitting here flogging ourselves over what might have been?
There could be plenty of reasons, but it is pointless to sit here and look at others and say they've been more successful and say why not us?
Yes, they've been wasted opportunities but as long as you look back, it turns into a fest of self pity.
Let's look to the future-stop bagging each other, and the team and the administration particularly on this forum and give the entire St Kilda Football Club and all those within it, all of our support instead of dragging out the knives.

[plugger66]

What years did the draft and salary cap come in?

At a guess 1987 for the draft. Salary cap not sure. I suppose that should be the time we messure success from. In that case we have alot of chances and still havent got over the line as I know a few others havent either but it seems the ones who havent got over the line are the ones who have had an unsuccessful last 20 yearas well apart from the Swans and Geelong who finally have broken their drought. Maybe our turn is coming but it is taking a long friggin time.

1986 was the first year of the draft.

We picked up the following...

#2 Stevens Sims
#15 Andrew Wickham
#28 Darren Mansell
#41 Brett Jeffray
#54 Paul Page

Not sure it was much better the next year either but in the recruiters defence most sides were terrible back then. Paul Page ended up at my club and never played in the ones as he wasnt good enough.

[plugger66]

Why are we sitting here flogging ourselves over what might have been?
There could be plenty of reasons, but it is pointless to sit here and look at others and say they've been more successful and say why not us?
Yes, they've been wasted opportunities but as long as you look back, it turns into a fest of self pity.
Let's look to the future-stop bagging each other, and the team and the administration particularly on this forum and give the entire St Kilda Football Club and all those within it, all of our support instead of dragging out the knives.

Not sure anyone has bagged anyone else. No knives here mate just looking for reasons and what we can do as supporters to help.

[Con Gorozidis]

Failure to win a Premiership has nothing to do with any Club's "culture"....Geelong have proven that.

Geelong have also proven, like many more Premiers before them, that cattle wins Flags.

We need better cattle. That's all.

what makes the cattle though? geelong circa 2007/08 is a very strong culture. when was the last time a cats player stepped out of line on or off the field? remember stevie johnson and how he was banished and then came back. good president. good coaching staff. good new facilities down at the cattery. saints have had plenty of good cattle.

[bob__71]

winmar, plugger and harves were champions.

The others were all favorites of mine. but the rest of the squad should have been good enough so that they didnt stand out as quality quite so much.

Does having too many who are considered champions means that there is a distinctive double tear system. what we need is everyone on the same plane more or less.

Too sum up I would say "hero worship"

[Thinline]

Traditionally a terrible football culture where heroes were distinct from servants combined with a shocking propensity to change for change's sake.

Both are still evident IMO.

It's no excuse, of course, but there's no doubt that luck - or lack of it - in recent years has played a role. And don't pipe up about making your own luck etc...Fact is we've been knobbled at times when it would have been nice not to have been!

I don't buy the whole 'we haven't been close to death' thing ... Remember the '80's anyone? The fat lady was definitely practicing her scales back then ... What did Barry Breen, a three hundred gamer no less, end up getting paid? Like 10c in the dollar for the payments he was properly due?

[St Fidelius]

What years did the draft and salary cap come in?

At a guess 1987 for the draft. Salary cap not sure. I suppose that should be the time we messure success from. In that case we have alot of chances and still havent got over the line as I know a few others havent either but it seems the ones who havent got over the line are the ones who have had an unsuccessful last 20 yearas well apart from the Swans and Geelong who finally have broken their drought. Maybe our turn is coming but it is taking a long friggin time.

1986 was the first year of the draft.

We picked up the following...

#2 Stevens Sims
#15 Andrew Wickham
#28 Darren Mansell
#41 Brett Jeffray
#54 Paul Page

Not sure it was much better the next year either but in the recruiters defence most sides were terrible back then. Paul Page ended up at my club and never played in the ones as he wasnt good enough.

It was very much hit and miss back then...

1987

#5 Michael Quirk
#18 Patrick Browne
#31 Jamie Keane
#44 Bob Jones
#57 Damien Kitschke

Other players drafted that year included ...

#1 Richard Lounder Richmond
#2 Chris McDermott BRISBANE
#15 Andrew Jarman BRISBANE
#27 Brendan Gale Richmond
#48 Liam Pickering North
#50 Stephen Tingay Melbourne

[meher baba]

Failure to win a Premiership has nothing to do with any Club's "culture"....Geelong have proven that.

Geelong have also proven, like many more Premiers before them, that cattle wins Flags.

We need better cattle. That's all.

what makes the cattle though? geelong circa 2007/08 is a very strong culture. when was the last time a cats player stepped out of line on or off the field? remember stevie johnson and how he was banished and then came back. good president. good coaching staff. good new facilities down at the cattery. saints have had plenty of good cattle.

I agree: it is a load of rubbish to say that it is just about the cattle.

I reckon Geelong's cattle in the late 80s/early 90s weren't pretty bloody amazing, but they didn't win any flags. If that lineup wouldn't have wiped the floor with the Swans of 2005-06 or the "two behinds to every goal" Eagles of that same period, I'd be very much surprised. And I'm sure that, on talent alone, they would match or surpass the current Cats lineup.

But the current Cats have a whole different approach and attitude to the perennial bridesmaids of 20 years ago.

And the Swans of 2-3 years ago had superb teamwork and a ruthless method that lifted their performances at the business end of the season way above their collective talent, which wasn't all that special to say the least. And, of course, all of their top players uninjured and available.

[Spinner]

never?

Its attitudes like this....They are the reason.

[Spinner]

winmar, plugger and harves were champions.

The others were all favorites of mine. but the rest of the squad should have been good enough so that they didnt stand out as quality quite so much.

Does having too many who are considered champions means that there is a distinctive double tear system. what we need is everyone on the same plane more or less.

Too sum up I would say "hero worship"

Was just about to say something similar.....St Kilda are renown for having some of the best players to play the game.....But are these stars profiles over inflated because they played in bad sides with a giant segregation between the best and worst.......

[bob__71]

winmar, plugger and harves were champions.

The others were all favorites of mine. but the rest of the squad should have been good enough so that they didnt stand out as quality quite so much.

Does having too many who are considered champions means that there is a distinctive double tear system. what we need is everyone on the same plane more or less.

Too sum up I would say "hero worship"

Was just about to say something similar.....St Kilda are renown for having some of the best players to play the game.....But are these stars profiles over inflated because they played in bad sides with a giant segregation between the best and worst.......

Poor old kosi...he is stkilda through and through