Its not just on field Ross......

[Teflon]

I understand we need to plug some onfield holes and draft smartly but IMHO Ross needs a review of his assistants immediately also.

You can only go on what you see and I know the cattle plays a part - but for me what I saw this year was a backline function quite well, it looked cohesive and was at times under siege. A tixk for Silvagni here as its his area of focus.

I saw a midfield that got better towards seasons end (as it got some run/depth) but still was shown up numerous times and not just against Hawks/Geelong (see West Coast game)....some work to do here both trade and coaching IMHO...........

A forward line that spluttered all year. I went into 08 thinking - "whose gonna stop a fwd line of Kosi, Gehrig, Riewoldt, Sneider, Milne......came out depressed. It really didnt click at all, defensive pressure early was non existant, it looked 1 dimensional (aka Riewoldt only) and lets face it.....it took a brilliant second half of the season from Roo to get us going in many games.....

I personally would like to see us also active in the assistant coach game - a Burns?.....(Buckley would be great but unlikely), even a Neil Daniher wouldve been useful...maybe look at others....Bond? etc

I think Barker HAS to go and Rock is on shaky ground and besides many clubs turn them over for a fresh approach.

I think off field the fitness work has been excellent but to me the pursuit of excellence (as per Geelongs efforts) doesnt stop at the lists holes. We need to bridge a hefty gap to catch the top 2 - that also means surrounding the players with the best. That should be our focus as well as players.

[Saint Bev]

Agree 100%, our back line has been superb, the best in my opinion.

[bergsone]

Actually agree with you on that teffers

[Andrew from Hawthorn]

Tef, absolutely agree 100%, as per usual.

[Bernard Shakey]

Right on the ball.

Forward coaching was .... well, I don't know if there was any.

[Sam23]

Didn't we average nearly 100 points per game this year?

[iwantmeseats]

barker surely has to go

[saintm]

Burns could well be out of the market - according to Channel Ten news (via a radio interview he did today). Will most probably go to West Coast and is taking the weekend to consider before making his final decision.

[SainterK]

So who are some other alternatives then, can we float some names?

[bigcarl]

A forward line that spluttered all year. I went into 08 thinking - "whose gonna stop a fwd line of Kosi, Gehrig, Riewoldt, Sneider, Milne......came out depressed. It really didnt click at all, defensive pressure early was non existant, it looked 1 dimensional (aka Riewoldt only) and lets face it.....it took a brilliant second half of the season from Roo to get us going in many games

agree. i was massively disappointed in it, too, and to outgun freewheeling and high-scoring teams such as hawthorn we have a lot of work to do.

once the call on gehrig was made we had no leading option apart from riewoldt and the replacements such as charlie, gwilt and allen offered little in the way of possessions or goals.

imo we were not helped by the numbers-behind-the-ball/numbers-at-every-contest edict.

many times there was no forward line to kick to, with the forwards busting a gut to get to contests at half back. we should re-think this dubious tactic.

the need for an accomplished full forward (not kosi) and goal-kicking half forward is pressing.

my ideal forward line (unless allen starts kicking absolute bags in the twos):

hf: milne, riewoldt, dal santo
f: kosi (second ruck), goddard, schneider

that is about as potent as it gets with our current list. the question is whether we can spare dal and bj from on-ball roles.

imo we must if we are to match teams like the hawks for scoring potency.

in general we need to focus less on what our opponents are doing and more on getting the ball and making the play ourselves.

[St. Luke]

A forward line that spluttered all year. I went into 08 thinking - "whose gonna stop a fwd line of Kosi, Gehrig, Riewoldt, Sneider, Milne......came out depressed.

Same! It looked, even without the aid of Gehrig, virtually unstoppable!

Admittedly, Roo found his kicking shoes again, now all we need is Kosi to fire up in 09!

[saintsRrising]

imo we were not helped by the numbers-behind-the-ball/numbers-at-every-contest edict.

.

Yeh...it made the Hawks a crap team too.........................................


Our midfield was simply not good enough in 2008...

While many are critical of the forwards,,,their lot was not made that easy by sloppy use of the ball by our mids...who also did not score enough goals.

Teamwork also needs to lifted upa notch or two in the midfield group. The hawks and Ctas mids were much beter at wrking asa group than ours were. so i hope that rock took note...

[bigcarl]

imo we were not helped by the numbers-behind-the-ball/numbers-at-every-contest edict.

.

Yeh...it made the Hawks a crap team too.........................................


Our midfield was simply not good enough in 2008...

While many are critical of the forwards,,,their lot was not made that easy by sloppy use of the ball by our mids...who also did not score enough goals.

Teamwork also needs to lifted upa notch or two in the midfield group. The hawks and Ctas mids were much beter at wrking asa group than ours were. so i hope that rock took note...

we're back to chicken and egg again.

worth noting that the hawks had two gun key forwards who kicked about 190 goals between them. we had one, who kicked 60-odd.

it's amazing how much better a midfield functions with some firepower up forward, and if you had buddy and roughhead on the end of it, it would provide plenty of incentive to get it in there quickly.

[saintsRrising]

Our forward line was better than most..

With Roo, Kosi, Schneider and Milne there was abit of talent there...

The Cats are not over-run with sensational key forwards...but had an ok year......

Midfield is where we need to really improve.

If we do not...you could add Fev to Roo and we would still not finish top 2.

[saintsRrising]

By my observation in 2008 when our nidfield was on song....the shots on goal flowed most readilly. And when our midfield was getting pumped scoring was less.

Improve our midfield and get them to play well...and the goals will flow.


Can our forward line do with improvement? Yes...for example O'Keefe would slot in very nicely.

But our midfield needs improving more.

[bigcarl]

The Cats are not over-run with sensational key forwards ... but had an ok year.

yes, until they got smashed in the big one because they didn't have a key forward who could kick a goal. that's where their fans fairly and squarely lay the blame, btw.

they had plenty of the ball. just couldn't make it count where it matters.

yes, our midfield needs to improve as well. i'd add raph clarke to it for a start and use his brother in the backline role raph made his own in the last six weeks of the season. a fully fit luke ball will help. gram has been good in there at times, as has s. fisher. gwilt would be worth a try and maybe even gilbert.

i think we tend to pigeon-hole a bit over what does and doesn't constitute a midfielder.

[SainterK]

The Cats are not over-run with sensational key forwards ... but had an ok year.

yes, until they got smashed in the big one because they didn't have a key forward who could kick a goal. that's where their fans fairly and squarely lay the blame, btw.

they had plenty of the ball. just couldn't make it count where it matters.

yes, our midfield needs to improve as well. i'd add raph clarke to it for a start and use his brother in the backline role raph made his own in the last six weeks of the season. a fully fit luke ball will help. gram has been good in there at times, as has s. fisher. gwilt would be worth a try and maybe even gilbert.

i think we tend to pigeon-hole a bit over what does and doesn't constitute a midfielder.

Do you mean they don't really have a significant key forward, or their key forwards didn't perform?

[bigcarl]

The Cats are not over-run with sensational key forwards ... but had an ok year.

yes, until they got smashed in the big one because they didn't have a key forward who could kick a goal. that's where their fans fairly and squarely lay the blame, btw.

they had plenty of the ball. just couldn't make it count where it matters.

yes, our midfield needs to improve as well. i'd add raph clarke to it for a start and use his brother in the backline role raph made his own in the last six weeks of the season. a fully fit luke ball will help. gram has been good in there at times, as has s. fisher. gwilt would be worth a try and maybe even gilbert.

i think we tend to pigeon-hole a bit over what does and doesn't constitute a midfielder.

Do you mean they don't really have a significant key forward, or their key forwards didn't perform?

they don't have a key forward of the stature of buddy or franklin. or riewoldt for that matter.

[SainterK]

The Cats are not over-run with sensational key forwards ... but had an ok year.

yes, until they got smashed in the big one because they didn't have a key forward who could kick a goal. that's where their fans fairly and squarely lay the blame, btw.

they had plenty of the ball. just couldn't make it count where it matters.

yes, our midfield needs to improve as well. i'd add raph clarke to it for a start and use his brother in the backline role raph made his own in the last six weeks of the season. a fully fit luke ball will help. gram has been good in there at times, as has s. fisher. gwilt would be worth a try and maybe even gilbert.

i think we tend to pigeon-hole a bit over what does and doesn't constitute a midfielder.

Do you mean they don't really have a significant key forward, or their key forwards didn't perform?

they don't have a key forward of the stature of buddy or franklin. or riewoldt for that matter.

Mooney kicked 60+ in 2007....so he has been so in the past. I can't work out if the forwards let them down, or perhaps the midfield's supply changed this year?

[bigcarl]

Mooney kicked 60+ in 2007....so he has been so in the past. I can't work out if the forwards let them down, or perhaps the midfield's supply changed this year?

well they lost only twice for the season, so they did plenty right. the lack of a key forward who could kick a goal cost them on grand final day though.

[Con Gorozidis]

buddy/willow/roughhead combo is very very lethal. make no mistake. all potential 100 goalers.


how many did those 3 guys kick for the season? 200 or so? willow kicked a stack one year when the hawks were rubbish.


but agree. hawks recent forward prowess is very unusual in modern times. midfielders are the key overall.

[Saints43]

By my observation in 2008 when our nidfield was on song....the shots on goal flowed most readilly. And when our midfield was getting pumped scoring was less.

Improve our midfield and get them to play well...and the goals will flow.

I agree with this. If the midfield is on top then the forwards have more scope to hold structure and play in front of the ball rather than get sucked back into contests down the ground.

I don't think any of us can be sure exactly what the assistants do.

I felt a bit sorry for Barker when we were all getting into him last year. He was getting criticised for the forward line performance while most of it was standing in the back pocket. That wouldnt be his decision, surely.

Having said that it is hard to fathom Barker giving advide to Riewoldt...

[bigcarl]

midfielders are the key overall.

i wouldn't disagree. i'm merely arguing that we need more than riewoldt as a key target.

[joffaboy]

Dont know how Barker can be blamed. Riewoldt and Milne both kicked over 60 goals, Kosi kicked 20 something playing with a gammy knee, and Schneids did his job when he got a gig.

Seem to go OK. Also once Roo could drop the ball he stopped shanking it and the 17.4 against the filth was incredibly good football.

I beleive the time we were convincingly beaten we looked ordinary going into the forward line. As teffers said mainly to Roo one out against three or four. But this had more to do with our treacle slow mids getting flogged by the opposition.

AFAIAC it all comes back to Lyon himself. He is coming into his third year as senior coach, the team cant be labelled an "inherited" one anymore. It is "his" team.

He needs to recruit for where our GLARING deficiency is - midfield. When we win or even break even in the midfield, our forwards look dangerous.

So I would not blame Barker. I would look at the head coach and hold him, his recruiting, and his game day tactics up for scrutiny before going for the assistants.

[JeffDunne]

Is it's Ross' job to review/change the assistants?

I'm sure he'd have a large input (especially the review) but I thought we were moving away from the senior coach running the football dept?

Seems to me Ross gets the credit/blame for recruiting, tactics, assistants, injury management, etc.

As for the assistants themselves, I struggle to see how anyone can make a call from outside the football department. Unless you know their specific role and the input they've had then it's pretty simplistic to suggest our problems in one area are a direct result of one specific coach.

I would hope all positions are reviewed annually and I would hope at the same time we are exploring all options to improve every position. I would like to see someone with senior experience added to the dept if the right person is available.