Time for 'Kosi' to stand up - The Age

kosifantutti23 · Wed 08 Apr 2009 5:21am

http://www.theage.com.au/news/rfnews/ti ... 72140.html

chook23 · Post: # 720102Post **chook23** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 8:09am

Exactly what many on here have been saying

but there have been also many who see that as bagging him

YES his record is poor

crunch time in his career.

Cairnsman · Post: # 720107Post **Cairnsman** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 8:56am

I hope he doesn't start to feel the pressure that he needs become a mega super star and single handedly delivery the Saints a flag. That is not what we need from Kosi. We need him to just be out on the ground and play his role. I hope that he stays at FF and really makes the position his.

Cairnsman · Post: # 720110Post **Cairnsman** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 9:01am

chook23 wrote:
YES his record is poor

crunch time in his career.

Sorry I just have to say what a load of bullshyte. Crunch time, why. Isn't it enough that he is out there and holding down a position.

Just to be objective what part of his record other than missed games is poor. On what measurement does he do so poorly.

chook23 · Post: # 720115Post **chook23** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 9:09am

Cairnsman wrote:
chook23 wrote:
YES his record is poor

crunch time in his career.
Sorry I just have to say what a load of bullshyte. Crunch time, why. Isn't it enough that he is out there and holding down a position.

Just to be objective what part of his record other than missed games is poor. On what measurement does he do so poorly.

measurements mentioned by those in the article to start

I have seen many games where Kosi has played poorly....the gap in performances has been consistent.

Yes he is out there but when he is has a history of not holding down that position as he should and only occassionly has....

He admits that himself......

joffaboy · Post: # 720116Post **joffaboy** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 9:12am

Hope his crunch tme includes four goals a game like last friday

chook23 · Post: # 720120Post **chook23** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 9:31am

joffaboy wrote:Hope his crunch tme includes four goals a game like last friday

Me too

but hope the gap between times he does it is reduced!

Thinline · Post: # 720129Post **Thinline** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 9:51am

'Justin Kosi has been inconsistent.'

Now there's something new for all of us to ponder.

Martin Blake - lazy journo.

Grant Thomas - useless gutter-dwelling turnip.

Saints94 · Post: # 720134Post **Saints94** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 10:03am

Thank God we did not trade him and Dal last year

markp · Post: # 720137Post **markp** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 10:06am

Yup, this whole GT-Saints-dial-a-quote thing is getting tedious.... time for stage 2 Grant, get your wife/girlfriend to run over your leg with a car, flash your old fella on tv and maybe get some botox work done.... or run for council on the Goldcoast and make a dodgy porno. You know it makes sense.

Eastern · Post: # 720151Post **Eastern** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 10:21am

Our deal with The Age is Fri, Sat, Sun & Mon. Article appears on Wed ????????? !!

SainterK · Post: # 720163Post **SainterK** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 11:06am

He was vomiting before the bounce against Adelaide, I am sure he feels the pressure.

My defence has been that Kosi needed an opportunity to enjoy a good preseason without any hiccups. To all reports he has done so, so it seems that the simple things can have a profound effect. He is moving well, looking fit, and his kicking accuracy is fanastic.

I would love to see an encouraging vibe out there, with people willing to support this obvious endeavour to turn it all around.

AP Erebus · Post: # 720173Post **AP Erebus** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 11:21am

it has been around this time that "Kosi" will headbutt a fence, rip a hamstring or belt someone.

This is my quote of the year so far... i love it!

st.byron · Post: # 720175Post **st.byron** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 11:22am

Cairnsman wrote:
Sorry I just have to say what a load of bullshyte. Crunch time, why. Isn't it enough that he is out there and holding down a position.

Just to be objective what part of his record other than missed games is poor. On what measurement does he do so poorly.

It's outlined clearly in the article. It's his inconsistency. That's what's been poor. And there's been more poor than good.
No it's not enough that he's out there and holding down a position. He needs to be out there delivering consistently to provide real value.

st.byron · Post: # 720179Post **st.byron** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 11:26am

Thinline wrote:'Justin Kosi has been inconsistent.'

Now there's something new for all of us to ponder.

Martin Blake - lazy journo.

Grant Thomas - useless gutter-dwelling turnip.

Fairly selective quoting there Thinline.
There's also another commentator in that article acknowledging Kosi's inconsistency. That would be Danny Frawley.
Is he a flog as well?

A good article by Martin Blake.
Right on the money IMO.

Thinline · Post: # 720180Post **Thinline** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 11:29am

st.byron wrote:
It's outlined clearly in the article. It's his inconsistency. That's what's been poor. And there's been more poor than good.
No it's not enough that he's out there and holding down a position. He needs to be out there delivering consistently to provide real value.

Are you by any chance actually Martin Blake ?

I'm not trying to be a deliberately provocative a-hole here but don't you (and others) think the Kosi slipper-sinking thing's a little tiresome by now?

We all know Kosi's been inconsistent. We've all been encouraged by his (and the team's) first two rounds in 09. We all want him (as part of the team) to do well.

What else is there that needs to be said?

st.byron · Post: # 720183Post **st.byron** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 11:33am

Thinline wrote:
Are you by any chance actually Martin Blake ?

I'm not trying to be a deliberately provocative a-hole here but don't you (and others) think the Kosi slipper-sinking thing's a little tiresome by now?

We all know Kosi's been inconsistent. We've all been encouraged by his (and the team's) first two rounds in 09. We all want him (as part of the team) to do well.

What else is there that needs to be said?

Nothing. You've hit the nail on the head.
It's not slipper sinking. It's assessing a player on his actual contribution rather than his potential. Simple.

Moccha · Post: # 720185Post **Moccha** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 11:34am

Thinline wrote:
st.byron wrote:
It's outlined clearly in the article. It's his inconsistency. That's what's been poor. And there's been more poor than good.
No it's not enough that he's out there and holding down a position. He needs to be out there delivering consistently to provide real value.
Are you by any chance actually Martin Blake ?

I'm not trying to be a deliberately provocative a-hole here but don't you (and others) think the Kosi slipper-sinking thing's a little tiresome by now?

We all know Kosi's been inconsistent. We've all been encouraged by his (and the team's) first two rounds in 09. We all want him (as part of the team) to do well.

What else is there that needs to be said?

Good point. It's just a filler article. There's nothing in there that anyone doesn't already know, so ask yourself what's the point of the article?

For that reason I consider it very lazy journalism. Anybody could have written that crap.

Thinline · Post: # 720187Post **Thinline** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 11:37am

st.byron wrote: Fairly selective quoting there Thinline.
There's also another commentator in that article acknowledging Kosi's inconsistency. That would be Danny Frawley.
Is he a flog as well?

A good article by Martin Blake.
Right on the money IMO.

And Danny Frawley's contribution is worth what? Something special because he was a former Saint or something? Geez, if you're giving him a rap on account if his coaching credentials I'd be real concerned! In seriousness, what is new or interesting or incisive in what he or anyone else in that article says?

My take is a lazy editor needed a hole filled so he asked an equally lazy journo 'just rehash something about Kosi. Don't care what. Perhaps talk about his peripheral vision. No. Too specific. His injury history? Maybe. Or how about just gimme a couple of hundred words about how he's inconsistent. That'll do. Onya Marty.'

Cairnsman · Post: # 720189Post **Cairnsman** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 11:43am

st.byron wrote:
Cairnsman wrote:
Sorry I just have to say what a load of bullshyte. Crunch time, why. Isn't it enough that he is out there and holding down a position.

Just to be objective what part of his record other than missed games is poor. On what measurement does he do so poorly.
It's outlined clearly in the article. It's his inconsistency. That's what's been poor. And there's been more poor than good.
No it's not enough that he's out there and holding down a position. He needs to be out there delivering consistently to provide real value.

His inconsistency, yeah but how is it measured, the amount of marks, kicks, handballs, tapwork, tackles, goals. How does the club measure his performance. Let me tell you that you probably have no idea about what KPIs Ross Lyon sets Kosi. If you did then you would be able to measure his consistency. I think the fact that he played most games last year for an AFL club that played in a preliminary final means that he was doing his job. The fact Kosi is a number 2 draft pick and that he won the rising star in his first year has been the bane of his footy life. He then had a horrible run with injuries one of which was a fractured skull for crying out loud.

WHY DO WE NEED A MESSIAH

SainterK · Post: # 720191Post **SainterK** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 11:48am

AP Erebus wrote:
it has been around this time that "Kosi" will headbutt a fence, rip a hamstring or belt someone.
This is my quote of the year so far... i love it!

I don't find it funny...

At the practice match against the doggies, Kosi over extended himself to take a mark and hit his head on the ground very hard. Behind me Doggies supporters thought it was hilarious, with quotes similar to the above.

st.byron · Post: # 720196Post **st.byron** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 11:55am

Thinline wrote: And Danny Frawley's contribution is worth what? Something special because he was a former Saint or something? Geez, if you're giving him a rap on account if his coaching credentials I'd be real concerned! In seriousness, what is new or interesting or incisive in what he or anyone else in that article says?

My take is a lazy editor needed a hole filled so he asked an equally lazy journo 'just rehash something about Kosi. Don't care what. Perhaps talk about his peripheral vision. No. Too specific. His injury history? Maybe. Or how about just gimme a couple of hundred words about how he's inconsistent. That'll do. Onya Marty.'

Not saying Danny Frawley's opinion is necessarily worth more - you were though by excluding him from the bake you gave GT and Blake.

It's a valid article. It outlines how Kosi has been inconsistent and provides quotes from people who would know better than you or I to back it up, including a guy who coached him for five years. That's not lazy journalism - it's making a point and then backing it up with some solid supporting evidence.
It's valid to be writing about this issue because Kosi is showing signs of having turned the corner and we're all hoping like hell that it continues.

I reckon you'd be bagging the article and author whoever wrote it just because you're sticking up for Kosi no matter what. Admirable loyalty but
no reason not to state the truth.

There would also be plenty of readers who haven't been following Kosi's career like we have who would be interested.

st.byron · Post: # 720204Post **st.byron** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 12:08pm

Cairnsman wrote:
His inconsistency, yeah but how is it measured, the amount of marks, kicks, handballs, tapwork, tackles, goals. How does the club measure his performance. Let me tell you that you probably have no idea about what KPIs Ross Lyon sets Kosi. If you did then you would be able to measure his consistency. I think the fact that he played most games last year for an AFL club that played in a preliminary final means that he was doing his job. The fact Kosi is a number 2 draft pick and that he won the rising star in his first year has been the bane of his footy life. He then had a horrible run with injuries one of which was a fractured skull for crying out loud.

You're right. I don't have a list of the KPI's Lyon uses. Do you? No.
But as footy fans we can have an educated guess and an opinion. If not, let's just sit mutely and not think about the game for ourselves eh?
I'm not going to get into a stats based debate about Kosi. There are stats like being in the top 15 or so in the comp for forward 50 tackles in 2008 that are positive and there are stats like 12 or so games in 2008 where Kosi had single figure possessions and less than 2 goals(something like that, I worked it out last year but am not going to again).
Blake's article re-inforces what a majority of Saints fans(if the posting traffic on here is anything to go by) think about Kosi. If GT, who coached him for 5 years, and Frawley both agree that he's been inconsistent, that just lends more support to that view.

There are posters on here who, for whatever reason, have steadfastly refused to assess Kosi on his actual contributions, rather than his potential.

Yes he had a horrible run with injuries (also mentioned in Blake's article) and that has had an impact for sure. But that's no excuse for his lack of ability to be consistent.

bigcarl · Post: # 720206Post **bigcarl** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 12:22pm

martin blake's a passionate st kilda fan and i can't see much of a problem with the article.

kosi, my favourite current player (with dal santo), does need to deliver consistently.

though he kicked four on the weekend, i'm still not convinced we have him in the right position.

very good full forwards average four goals per game over their careers and kosi is a long, long way off that.

though he's a very good high mark he's not quick enough on the lead, which is an essential part of a ff's armoury.

i'd love to be proved wrong on this, btw, but i think he's a better fit at chf with someone else ... riewoldt, gilbert or bj ... as the spearhead.

it's true that he does bring the crumbers into the game, but a good ff should also provide goals consistently.

none of which is to say that i don't value him very highly as a player. ff is just a specialist position that requires a particular set of skills.

Cairnsman · Post: # 720211Post **Cairnsman** » Wed 08 Apr 2009 12:37pm

st.byron wrote:
Cairnsman wrote:
His inconsistency, yeah but how is it measured, the amount of marks, kicks, handballs, tapwork, tackles, goals. How does the club measure his performance. Let me tell you that you probably have no idea about what KPIs Ross Lyon sets Kosi. If you did then you would be able to measure his consistency. I think the fact that he played most games last year for an AFL club that played in a preliminary final means that he was doing his job. The fact Kosi is a number 2 draft pick and that he won the rising star in his first year has been the bane of his footy life. He then had a horrible run with injuries one of which was a fractured skull for crying out loud.
You're right. I don't have a list of the KPI's Lyon uses. Do you? No.
But as footy fans we can have an educated guess and an opinion. If not, let's just sit mutely and not think about the game for ourselves eh?
I'm not going to get into a stats based debate about Kosi. There are stats like being in the top 15 or so in the comp for forward 50 tackles in 2008 that are positive and there are stats like 12 or so games in 2008 where Kosi had single figure possessions and less than 2 goals(something like that, I worked it out last year but am not going to again).
Blake's article re-inforces what a majority of Saints fans(if the posting traffic on here is anything to go by) think about Kosi. If GT, who coached him for 5 years, and Frawley both agree that he's been inconsistent, that just lends more support to that view.

There are posters on here who, for whatever reason, have steadfastly refused to assess Kosi on his actual contributions, rather than his potential.

Yes he had a horrible run with injuries (also mentioned in Blake's article) and that has had an impact for sure. But that's no excuse for his lack of ability to be consistent.

Look the reason I think that this whole consistency argument is bullshyte is not only because of the serious injuries he's had. I mean talk about comparing him with Roo, it's not a cheese for cheese comparison in itself purely for the fact that Roo has played all of his career in the forward line. Kosi has played mostly as a Ruck by a coach that didn't believe in Rucks and clearly Kosi was punching out of his weight division as a ruckman. He has played forward and also in defence so how the hell can he be measured at all let alone as being consistent. Now I ask again on what objective measurement is he being labelled inconsistent.

Facts and figures please...