No More Gwilt, Please!

[bergholt]

gwilt isn't good enough and he's taking game time away from someone else. we would have been a better team tonight if kossie played permanent forward and mcevoy was in the side changing in the ruck - gwilt is not a second tall option up forward.

you know how it looked like we were going to riewoldt every time we went forward, and as a result he always had three on him, and he kept getting it out wide and missing (hard) shots at goal? you know why that was? because our second tall target wasn't presenting as required.

he played what looked to me like 100% of the game - i don't remember him going off - had 13 possessions (fourth last), 69% effective (fifth last), took 3 marks (fifth last), had three tackles (eighth last). he kicked one goal, from a free kick from a pretty loose slinging tackle.

notice that when both kosi and gardy went forward at various times, they bobbed up and took marks inside 50. they weren't down there for very long but when they were they led and presented well and were legitimate second/third options. gwilt didn't take a mark inside 50. he doesn't look anything like a tall forward. built like tarzan, plays like jane? here's his record this year, in a side that's dominating:

R1: 12 disp, 4 marks, 2 tackles
R2: 12 disp, 1 mark, 1 behind, 2 tackles, 2 inside 50s
R3: 27 disp, 8 marks, 3 tackles, 1 assist, 3 inside 50s
R4: 9 disp, 2 marks, 1 goal, 4 tackles, 1 assist, 1 inside 50
R5: 15 disp, 2 marks, 1 goal 1 behind, 2 tackles, 2 inside 50s
R6: 13 disp, 3 marks, 1 goal, 3 tackles, 4 inside 50s

he's supposed to be tall and he's averaging 3.33 marks a game, 0.5 goals a game! forward pressure? 2.67 tackles a game! floating half forward? 2.0 inside 50s a game!

we're winning games, so it's not obvious, but our 22nd player is an absolute passenger. i'm sure he's a really nice guy and he's trying hard, but he's not up to it.

[Buckets]

I would actually think that he is playing his role just right and there would be little chance of Lyon dropping Gwilt who is doing what is required!

[bergholt]

I would actually think that he is playing his role just right and there would be little chance of Lyon dropping Gwilt who is doing what is required!

which is? did ya read the post? too many words and numbers there?

[n1ck]

Are you for real?

Jim has been fantastic so far, especially the last 2 or 3 weeks. Very good again tonight.

Provides a strong, physical presence, has very, very good skills, and us learning to read the play. He has really been given an opportunity to shine of late and hasnt disappointed.

I love the way he uses his size now. Used to think he was just an awkward gangly bloke, but can really impose himself on a contest. Love the Gwilt.

[bigcarl]

i think he's an improved and valuable player, but i agree with the OP in that he is not the answer as the second key forward.

doesn't kick enough goals for mine or provide the alternative marking target to riewoldt that we need desperately.

[AP Erebus]

eh, i disagree.

I think he's doing just fine. I haven't seem him make more mistakes than others, definitely seen him put his head over the ball numerous times.

He's bobbed up and kicked a couple of goals... I'm happy with the way he's conducting himself.

1 man does not make/break a team imo.

[Buckets]

I would actually think that he is playing his role just right and there would be little chance of Lyon dropping Gwilt who is doing what is required!

which is? did ya read the post? too many words and numbers there?

I did. Do you know anything about FOOTY?????? Doesn't look like it IMO! He is not there as a key forward or CHF. What about the other players in the team who didnt get the same stats as Jimmy???? By the looks he has not been the worst performer in terms of the stats you so willingly used!

[bergholt]

Are you for real?

Jim has been fantastic so far, especially the last 2 or 3 weeks. Very good again tonight.

Provides a strong, physical presence, has very, very good skills, and us learning to read the play. He has really been given an opportunity to shine of late and hasnt disappointed.

I love the way he uses his size now. Used to think he was just an awkward gangly bloke, but can really impose himself on a contest. Love the Gwilt.

shame he doesn't take marks or in fact win his own ball in any way, is no better at pressure than kosi (who's not amazing), and doesn't kick goals. but i agree he's got a beautiful left boot. in that aspect, only, he's the perfect tall forward.

[bigcarl]

He is not there as a key forward or CHF.

to me he appeared to be the only other marking target apart from riewoldt for long stretches of the game.

if he wasn't chf, or our second key forward, then who was?

or did we decide to put all our eggs in the riewoldt basket? and is that a wise policy?

[n1ck]

Watch him against freo when he burst through 4 opponents to cut off a forward entry, gather the ball and pump it long into our forward line?

He is not a key forward. He is not a key back. He's a flanker or a wingman. Yes, he's still learning the game, but he is playing good footy and doesnt deserve to be dropped.

His foot skills are beautiful and he is reading the play better than ever. His judgement in terms of handball is still lacking abit, but he is playing very good football. Nowhere near our worst tonight, or all season for that matter.

[bergholt]

I did. Do you know anything about FOOTY?????? Doesn't look like it IMO! He is not there as a key forward or CHF. What about the other players in the team who didnt get the same stats as Jimmy???? By the looks he has not been the worst performer in terms of the stats you so willingly used!

he's not there as a key forward? what role is he playing then? we decided tonight that he was a decoy. he's good at that. the other saints players rarely kick it to him, partly because he doesn't present, partly because they don't have confidence in him.

other players in the team? in terms of stats tonight, he had:
- more possessions than only schneider (3 goals), kosi and gardy (50% of the game each as ruckmen).
- more marks than only dal and schneider, the same number as gram and hayes. they're all true smalls who are centimetres shorter than him.

he was clearly the worst st kilda player tonight.

[bigcarl]

He is not a key forward. He is not a key back. He's a flanker or a wingman. Yes, he's still learning the game, but he is playing good footy and doesnt deserve to be dropped.

i agree with all of that.

the problem is he appeared to spend a lot of the game playing as our second key forward.

imo you're right. he's a winger or flanker, not a goal-kicking key forward.

[Buckets]

He is not there as a key forward or CHF.

to me he appeared to be the only other marking target apart from riewoldt for long stretches of the game.

if he wasn't chf, or our second key forward, then who was?

or did we decide to put all our eggs in the riewoldt basket? and is that a wise policy?

At this stage i would put him as our 3rd or 4th forward. Roo is our main forward then Kosi and then rotating Gards through the forward line at times mixed in with BJ.

The main point against the OP is that Jimmy is playing his role that Lyon wants done and from what i can see he is doing just that. Otherwise he would have been out after the game against Freo when he had his poorest game stats wise.

[felixleo]

Get a life bergholt , Jimmy's doing alright no matter what the stats can be made to say.

[bergholt]

Watch him against freo when he burst through 4 opponents to cut off a forward entry, gather the ball and pump it long into our forward line?

of course he's done some good things this year. i acknowledge that. he's just done fewer than anyone else of the 24 players we've used.

He is not a key forward. He is not a key back. He's a flanker or a wingman. Yes, he's still learning the game, but he is playing good footy and doesnt deserve to be dropped.

i agree that he's not a key forward. so let's not play him as one.

do you seriously think he's going to get enough ball playing on the wing to earn his keep? the only reason he's in the side at the moment is that he's filling a hole across half-forward. but he's not doing it well. he's not good enough in that spot, so drop him, play him on the wing in the reserves, and bring him in when he proves that he's a decent tall midfielder.

[bergholt]

Get a life bergholt , Jimmy's doing alright no matter what the stats can be made to say.

dude, you're on a football forum at 12:15 on a sunday night. "get a life" don't make any sense.

but thanks for the in depth argument there.

[Legendary]

Agree totally with the OP.

Gwilt has been ok, but needs to do a lot more ... still makes too many errors, and doesn't find nearly enough of the ball.

Playing Gwilt's role in the side, we need someone who commands the footy more.

[bigcarl]

[At this stage i would put him as our 3rd or 4th forward. Roo is our main forward then Kosi and then rotating Gards through the forward line at times mixed in with BJ.

that sounds about right.

the problem is that in king's absence and with both kosi and gardiner rucking we are often without a genuine second key forward. it is a real structural problem.

it 1) leaves too much of the work to riewoldt and 2) is asking jimmy to hit above his weight.

[bergholt]

At this stage i would put him as our 3rd or 4th forward. Roo is our main forward then Kosi and then rotating Gards through the forward line at times mixed in with BJ.

bj didn't play forward at all tonight. kosi and gardy rotated through the ruck and played forward for about twenty minutes each. gwilt set up inside 50 at every centre bounce and played the whole game down there. so who was our second tall forward, then?

The main point against the OP is that Jimmy is playing his role that Lyon wants done and from what i can see he is doing just that. Otherwise he would have been out after the game against Freo when he had his poorest game stats wise.

not being inside lyon's head, i can't explain why he's in the side. maybe he's doing things that lyon likes which the stats don't capture. or maybe he's just giving him a chance to develop.

six rounds is a pretty fair chance. for the good of the football club, let's call it for now and give someone else a chance to develop in the ones. replace him for next week with either mcevoy or maguire (if king's not fit). if neither of them make the most of their six-week chance, then maybe gwilt can have another go.

[asiu]

... partly because he doesn't present, partly because they don't have confidence in him.

i see that as well


tend to agree he's on the verge of being a passenger

[F_Q_F]

He was a little off tonight, dropped a couple of marks he should have taken.

Thought he presented well though. Looks like they are using him coming out of defence. He's a good long kick of the ball and usually a pretty reasonable marking target.

He has been playing some good footy the last few matches, been quite impressed with him to be honest.

I don't actually know who we could bring in to play that sort of role. If he is our worst player than things are going pretty well.

[felixleo]

Get a life bergholt , Jimmy's doing alright no matter what the stats can be made to say.

dude, you're on a football forum at 12:15 on a sunday night. "get a life" don't make any sense.

but thanks for the in depth argument there.

R.D.O. tomorrow dude (small d) sitting back chilling with the missus listening to some tunes and not a pocket protector in sight.

[vacuous space]

he's not there as a key forward? what role is he playing then? we decided tonight that he was a decoy. he's good at that. the other saints players rarely kick it to him, partly because he doesn't present, partly because they don't have confidence in him.

Gwilt also had Brian Lake on him for a lot of the game. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the team was instructed to keep it away from Lake. Lake had 22 marks and 32 kicks in 2 games against us last year. He provided a lot of rebound for the Dogs, while keeping Kosi to ten touches in each game (three goals in the first, none in the second). Today Lake had near zero influence. I think the decoy thing may be spot on. I doubt Gwilt gets dropped.

[Winmarvellous]

We won. He's part of the team. Great foot skills. Get over it

[Harvey To Hayes]

Are you for real?

Jim has been fantastic so far, especially the last 2 or 3 weeks. Very good again tonight.

Provides a strong, physical presence, has very, very good skills, and us learning to read the play. He has really been given an opportunity to shine of late and hasnt disappointed.

I love the way he uses his size now. Used to think he was just an awkward gangly bloke, but can really impose himself on a contest. Love the Gwilt.

shame he doesn't take marks or in fact win his own ball in any way, is no better at pressure than kosi (who's not amazing), and doesn't kick goals. but i agree he's got a beautiful left boot. in that aspect, only, he's the perfect tall forward.

Racism is so 90s....