The Baba Babble

[meher baba]

I thought I'd start a regular new thread for those on here who are suffering from being deprived of their weekly dose of baiting, ego-laden commentary from the dear departed (I hope only temporarily) Monsieur R Fox.

Of course, being an avatar permanently elevated to a state of heightened consciousness, I have no ego at all. I hope this doesn't cause any problems.

And, please don't be concerned, I guarantee that this thread will have a very low GTI (Grant Thomas Index) rating.

And so, onto yesterday's game.

I am the first to admit that - although I have a million opinions - I genuinely know next to nothing about football. Although I have followed it avidly for more than four decades, I only played it for a fleeting time (playing far more soccer and, ugh, rugby union). These days, I see far fewer games live than I would like, and often even have trouble watching them on telly due to the eartly manifestation of my eternal avatar being entangled in a mass of work and domestic responsibilities.

That said, I was able to watch the game on the box yesterday, and I thought we did much better than has been generally said on here.

Brisbane - the top tackling team in the comp - played a tough hard game that was a sort of modernised version (ie, with added flooding) of the way the Lions played in the early 2000s. I guess we should have expected something of the sort from a team coached by M Voss, who I reckon has good cause to state that he has shown the sceptics a thing or two so far this season!!

Not only did Brisbane play very well, but they had a much better run with the umpies than have our other 8 opponents this season. We certainly got the wrong end of some dodgy decisions. But I was more bothered about the way holding the ball was interpreted. Time and again I noticed Lions players taking a couple of steps with the ball and then being tackled and either being held up or disposing of the ball incorrectly, but getting away with it. It happened with us a few times too, but the Lions were held up more often.

Watching a number of games over the past two weekends, I fear that we are seeing a mid-season shift in the rules on "holding the ball". This will certainly favour Geelong (and, it seems, Brisbane) over most other teams: especially us.

The other big advantage the Lions had was their kicking accuracy on goal. Our accuracy (especially at the Dome, where there is really no excuse for poor kicking) has been up this year, but not yesterday: we were woeful. Whereas the Lions, especially Bradshaw, gave a bit of an exhibition.

So, all in all, I think we did well to tough the game out and win. I thought our fourth quarter performance was everything that a team that wants to reach and win a GF needs to display. We haven't been too good at fighting out games like this in recent years (if you want evidence, look at the expectations of the posters on the SS match day thread at around the point at which things started to go really bad for us in the 3rd quarter). So I see the win as a bit of a step forward.

Now to turn to individual performances. The Lions outplayed us for the whole of the middle two quarters of the game. This is reflected in the fact that many of our players had off days. I would list among this group Baker, Goddard, Schneider, Dal (until the fourth quarter) Milne (ditto) and King (ditto), Gwilt (for quarters 2-4: he was one of our best in the first quarter) and Blake (although you expect a relatively slight CHB to have a tough time against the Lions' forward line).

The stars for me were Joey (best on ground for mine), Lenny, Riewoldt, Kosi, Jones and, at times, Geary, Dal and Milne.

We really missed Gram. Due to their injuries, the Lions had an undersize backline. The key to beating them was to get the ball into the forward 50 as often as possible.

So what changes to make? I wouldn't want to make too many, and I'm sure Ross agrees. If there is an issue with Gram, I would be inclined to leave him for out another week (especially as we are only playing the Demons). Max definitely should come in, if he is ready.

Should anyone be dropped? Of the fringe players, Gwilt was undoubtedly the worst yesterday (although he had his best game of the season against the Bombers). So I guess he should play in the Zebras for a while, with BJ moving into the third forward role (I don't favour Gilbert in this role). It will be a pity for Gwilt, who IMO has a lot to offer, but his disposal by foot - which is the key to his game - was off yesterday, and without that he isn't much chop.

I, like many, would like to see Goose back, but unfortunately, Blake currently has his spot and Dawson is also probably ahead of him in the queue. Goose as a forward is a nice idea in theory, but would only work in practice if Kosi shifted to second ruckman.

So, for mine, In: Max, Out: Gwilt. But Gram will also need to come back soon: goodness only knows who he will replace!

Anyway, I trust this post will stimulate some debate. If not, che sera and I'll leave the field clear for RF whenever he deigns to make a reappearance.

[Thomas]

Gccd post, but I feel sorry for Gwilt as yesterday was the only game that we should be critical of.
Since we are playing Melbourne should he not b have one more chance?

[python]

i for one dont want us making selection decisions based on the fact that we "are playing melbourne", that sort of complacency will see us lose! Melbourne are playing a lot better footy than their results indicate

[meher baba]

i for one dont want us making selection decisions based on the fact that we "are playing melbourne", that sort of complacency will see us lose! Melbourne are playing a lot better footy than their results indicate

And the reason for this is that, like the Tigers, they are tanking games (don't believe anybody's denials about this). Hence, at this stage of the season, they are not going to beat us no matter how badly we play.

[plugger66]

i for one dont want us making selection decisions based on the fact that we "are playing melbourne", that sort of complacency will see us lose! Melbourne are playing a lot better footy than their results indicate

And the reason for this is that, like the Tigers, they are tanking games (don't believe anybody's denials about this). Hence, at this stage of the season, they are not going to beat us no matter how badly we play.

Players never tank games and the Demons are playing their best side at the moment so the coaching panel are not either. Once they start sending players for operations then they are setting up for next season or tanking if you like.

[meher baba]

i for one dont want us making selection decisions based on the fact that we "are playing melbourne", that sort of complacency will see us lose! Melbourne are playing a lot better footy than their results indicate

And the reason for this is that, like the Tigers, they are tanking games (don't believe anybody's denials about this). Hence, at this stage of the season, they are not going to beat us no matter how badly we play.

Players never tank games and the Demons are playing their best side at the moment so the coaching panel are not either. Once they start sending players for operations then they are setting up for next season or tanking if you like.

If you say so.

OK, I'll rephrase it: I expect the Demons to continue to play to the best of their ability and put up a good show in most games for the rest of the season, but will tend to fade away towards the end of games and fail to collect the 4 points. I'm not sure why they will do this: possibly something in the water.

[plugger66]

i for one dont want us making selection decisions based on the fact that we "are playing melbourne", that sort of complacency will see us lose! Melbourne are playing a lot better footy than their results indicate

And the reason for this is that, like the Tigers, they are tanking games (don't believe anybody's denials about this). Hence, at this stage of the season, they are not going to beat us no matter how badly we play.

Players never tank games and the Demons are playing their best side at the moment so the coaching panel are not either. Once they start sending players for operations then they are setting up for next season or tanking if you like.

If you say so.

OK, I'll rephrase it: I expect the Demons to continue to play to the best of their ability and put up a good show in most games for the rest of the season, but will tend to fade away towards the end of games and fail to collect the 4 points. I'm not sure why they will do this: possibly something in the water.

Can you tell me why a players or players would tank. Wouldnt they get dropped or worse get delisted at the end of the year. Also in the game I saw yesterday I am pretty sure the demons where down by 50 odd points half way through the game but only lost by 22 so that doesnt follow your logic of fading late.

[Milton66]

If the OP was an effort to replicate the Fox report, then it has succeeded.. but for all the wrong reasons.

Following the tanking theories, it should be called Baba's Bulldust Bable.

[meher baba]

i for one dont want us making selection decisions based on the fact that we "are playing melbourne", that sort of complacency will see us lose! Melbourne are playing a lot better footy than their results indicate

And the reason for this is that, like the Tigers, they are tanking games (don't believe anybody's denials about this). Hence, at this stage of the season, they are not going to beat us no matter how badly we play.

Players never tank games and the Demons are playing their best side at the moment so the coaching panel are not either. Once they start sending players for operations then they are setting up for next season or tanking if you like.

If you say so.

OK, I'll rephrase it: I expect the Demons to continue to play to the best of their ability and put up a good show in most games for the rest of the season, but will tend to fade away towards the end of games and fail to collect the 4 points. I'm not sure why they will do this: possibly something in the water.

Can you tell me why a players or players would tank. Wouldnt they get dropped or worse get delisted at the end of the year. Also in the game I saw yesterday I am pretty sure the demons where down by 50 odd points half way through the game but only lost by 22 so that doesnt follow your logic of fading late.

Yes, you are correct about the game against the Hawks.

Look, it's ultimately an unprovable accusation: after all, the Tigers and the Demons are arguably the two weakest teams, so of course they are going to lose plenty of games. And morale plays a part as well.

However, if you look through the records of past seasons, you will note a few things

(a) Once upon a time it was quite common for a team to have a poor start to the season, be out of the hunt for the finals after 8-10 rounds, and yet make a strong finish to the season.

(b) Over the past 10-15 years, this phenomenon has all but disappeared.
Once teams are out of the hunt, they seem to lose almost all their games and, if they somehow happen to find themselves in front in the final quarter, they almost invariably throw it away somehow.

(c) Each season, the "preparing for next season" seems to have started earlier and earlier. And fair enough. The Demons and the Tigers now have Buckley's chance of making the 8. So any games won now are just going to create problems down the track.

Anyway, even if I'm being overly cynical, I reckon that the slightest hint of tanking occurring represents a major blight on our game. A competition in which the clubs don't all play each other twice, and where there is a strong incentive for teams that fall far enough behind the pack to start tanking, is one which is desperately unequal and unfair.

I'll leave it at that. Let's agree to disagree.

[meher baba]

If the OP was an effort to replicate the Fox report, then it has succeeded.. but for all the wrong reasons.

Following the tanking theories, it should be called Baba's Bulldust Bable.

I thought p66 was just being tendentious - as is his wont - but your well-argued and well-reasoned arguments have convinced me now. Clearly there is no tanking in AFL, what on earth was I thinking????

[Milton66]

If the OP was an effort to replicate the Fox report, then it has succeeded.. but for all the wrong reasons.

Following the tanking theories, it should be called Baba's Bulldust Bable.

I thought p66 was just being tendentious - as is his wont - but your well-argued and well-reasoned arguments have convinced me now. Clearly there is no tanking in AFL, what on earth was I thinking????

Dunno, what were you thinking? Maybe I'm just an easily pleased football supporter / moron?

Tanking is a myth as proved by Ross Lyon's rebuilding of a list without bottoming out, and despite the neglect and serious mismanagement from the previous coach.

[kaos theory]

I'm sorry MB, but the GTI is too low to get me exicted...

Can't you insert a subtle comment about how much better we would be playing if The Great One was still in charge?

I miss the Fox Report....

[Mr Magic]

I miss the Fox Report....

About as much as I miss haemorroids (sp?).

[MC Gusto]

has r fox actually done a runner? hilarious if he has.

[meher baba]

If the OP was an effort to replicate the Fox report, then it has succeeded.. but for all the wrong reasons.

Following the tanking theories, it should be called Baba's Bulldust Bable.

I thought p66 was just being tendentious - as is his wont - but your well-argued and well-reasoned arguments have convinced me now. Clearly there is no tanking in AFL, what on earth was I thinking????

Dunno, what were you thinking? Maybe I'm just an easily pleased football supporter / moron?

Tanking is a myth as proved by Ross Lyon's rebuilding of a list without bottoming out, and despite the neglect and serious mismanagement from the previous coach.

Sorry, I forgot about that bit.

Tanking was of course all GT's fault, as was the poor umpiring in the AFL, the disastrous contract with Etihad Stadium, the dwindling supporter base of the Roos and Demons, Port's financial problems, the appalling Channel Seven coverage, and the Global Financial Crisis. Oh, and why WindowsVista is such a shocking product.

[stinger]

If the OP was an effort to replicate the Fox report, then it has succeeded.. but for all the wrong reasons.

Following the tanking theories, it should be called Baba's Bulldust Bable.

I thought p66 was just being tendentious - as is his wont - but your well-argued and well-reasoned arguments have convinced me now. Clearly there is no tanking in AFL, what on earth was I thinking????

the guy's an old troll using a new nick...ignore him mb..


tanking a myth.....gimme a break ffs..... ...carscum tanked for years....

[starsign]

[quote="meher baba"]
The stars for me were Joey (best on ground for mine), Lenny, Riewoldt, Kosi, Jones and, at times, Geary, Dal and Milne.

We really missed Gram. Due to their injuries, the Lions had an undersize backline. The key to beating them was to get the ball into the forward 50 as often as possible.

Obvious ommission would be Gards for mine Gave us heaps of 1st use initiating many of these 50 entries Lenny was the recipient of most and I would have him (lenny) ahead of Joey
Gards probably didnt have too much to beat , but they repeatedly jumped at him before acceptences in an attempt to unfaze him, but he was great!
The other was Zac , who played a great game also (Chips too), he seems to get better every game IMHO
Finally you may be a tad harsh on Milney who was looking very alive and dangerous early but copped a good knock to the knee He was there when we nedded him though ....what a wizard!
anyway not a bad effort seeing you only watched it on TV!
(and it really makes a differnce especially evaluating players games In my book)

[Milton66]

the guy's an old troll using a new nick...ignore him mb..

Butt out and stop calling me a troll or I'll complain to the mods. For someone who's supposed to ignore, me, you do like to stalk, don't you?

Save your vitriol for those unfortunate enough to put up with it.

[meher baba]

[quote="starsignObvious ommission would be Gards for mine Gave us heaps of 1st use initiating many of these 50 entries Lenny was the recipient of most and I would have him (lenny) ahead of Joey
Gards probably didnt have too much to beat , but they repeatedly jumped at him before acceptences in an attempt to unfaze him, but he was great!
The other was Zac , who played a great game also (Chips too), he seems to get better every game IMHO[/quote]

Zac and Chips were both beaten by their opponents more than once at crucial stages. Understandable given the power of the Lions' forward line, but this fact stops me from listing them among the best.

While I'm at it, another player who didn't make much of an impact yesterday was Farren Ray. But this was the first time in 9 games, so I'm certainly prepared to let it go (as, it seems, has everyone else).

[Milton66]

If the OP was an effort to replicate the Fox report, then it has succeeded.. but for all the wrong reasons.

Following the tanking theories, it should be called Baba's Bulldust Bable.

I thought p66 was just being tendentious - as is his wont - but your well-argued and well-reasoned arguments have convinced me now. Clearly there is no tanking in AFL, what on earth was I thinking????

Dunno, what were you thinking? Maybe I'm just an easily pleased football supporter / moron?

Tanking is a myth as proved by Ross Lyon's rebuilding of a list without bottoming out, and despite the neglect and serious mismanagement from the previous coach.

Sorry, I forgot about that bit.

Tanking was of course all GT's fault, as was the poor umpiring in the AFL, the disastrous contract with Etihad Stadium, the dwindling supporter base of the Roos and Demons, Port's financial problems, the appalling Channel Seven coverage, and the Global Financial Crisis. Oh, and why WindowsVista is such a shocking product.

We all know the GFC is Rudd's fault. As for the BFC (Brighton Financial Crisis) that's different altogether.

[stinger]

i'm serous mb...the guy has serious issues....sad really...

[meher baba]

i'm serous mb...the guy has serious issues....sad really...

Oh well, it takes all types to make a web forum.

To be honest, if there weren't some ratbags on here, I'd find the place a little dull.

Indeed, I suspect I'm one of the principal ratbags myself!!

[Mr Magic]

i'm serous mb...the guy has serious issues....sad really...

Oh well, it takes all types to make a web forum.

To be honest, if there weren't some ratbags on here, I'd find the place a little dull.

Indeed, I suspect I'm one of the principal ratbags myself!!

What do you mean 'one of'?

[meher baba]

i'm serous mb...the guy has serious issues....sad really...

Oh well, it takes all types to make a web forum.

To be honest, if there weren't some ratbags on here, I'd find the place a little dull.

Indeed, I suspect I'm one of the principal ratbags myself!!

What do you mean 'one of'?

If you are suggesting that I am the #1 ratbag on here, I'm touched and flattered. But, looking around the forum, surely it's a pretty big call!!

[Mr Magic]

i'm serous mb...the guy has serious issues....sad really...

Oh well, it takes all types to make a web forum.

To be honest, if there weren't some ratbags on here, I'd find the place a little dull.

Indeed, I suspect I'm one of the principal ratbags myself!!

What do you mean 'one of'?

If you are suggesting that I am the #1 ratbag on here, I'm touched and flattered. But, looking around the forum, surely it's a pretty big call!!

Not a bigger call than many others that have been made over time!!!!

But I'm truly disappointed MB.

Your version of the 'stab the current coach in the back report' doesn't have the same snide, surreptitious, smarmy, baiting, denigrating, trolling, belittling others opinions as the original.

You just seem to be lacking the true desire to cause trouble.

Put some effort in man.
Put your heart, soul and energy into it.

Otherwise this admirable attempt will be consigned to the same scrapheap that all the other imitations have been.