Why there's some cynicism...

[evertonfc]

First, if you don't read the whole of this post, read just the first bit below:

Barack Obama's election night speech:

"What began twenty-one months ago in the depths of winter must not end on this autumn night. This victory alone is not the change we seek; it is only the chance for us to make that change."

What Ross Lyon's speech should be to St Kilda fans today.

"What began nine months ago in the depths of October must not end on this June night. This great start alone is not the victory we seek; it is only the chance for us to claim that premiership."

===========================

Still with me? Good. Well done. You're smarter than George Bush (he's bidding on guns on eBay). Here we go:

I WAS asked today why St Kilda fans aren't going around giving it the big talk, and then Joffaboy's thread kind of rammed home that it needs to be explained - in its own space - why there's not the frenzied talk that we had five years ago.

Firstly, we know footy. We know that Geelong lost twice last year. Once during the regular season. Once in the Grand Final. Whave they to show for it? Nada - except a desire to win something this year.

We also know our footy club. We've had amazing starts before. What have we to show for it?

This friggin' DVD:



See, there's this little thing called the last day in September. But if you don't win finals, you won't get there. We're 0-3 from our last three Preliminary Finals. It doesn't matter whether you're 22-0 or 12-10 - if you're five goals down with two minutes to play, you're in strife.

The H&A season, to me, is merely jostling to get organised for September. If you're not in the hunt, you should be playing kids until you have a squad capable of winning something.

You have to be in the top four. That's it - because you need to be playing in Preliminary Finals. Realistically, you need to be top two (but this season will probably be an all-Vic top four, like last year). We'll get that, which is great.

Unfortunately, here's the reality of football: winner takes all. The Brisbane Lions NEVER won the minor premiership under Leigh Matthews, yet are one of the greatest teams ever.

In very crude terms, the H&A serves two purposes: to weed out the crap teams and act as a barrier draw for the good teams. A good barrier is essential to success, but it is no guarentee of that. You still have to hit the straight with gallons in the tank.

This is why I believe our supporters are not getting ahead of themselves. Equally, I think they know that the team simply has to find another 10-20% in September. Why? Because everybody else will be lifting 10-20% in September. Maybe more.

I cannot imagine anything more distressing in footy than winning every game EXCEPT for the big one. Sure, a wonderful year. But you're chokers. Not champions. Not the best. Not good enough. That's effectively the Geelong of last year. Maybe Geelong of this year. Maybe even us.

So, if you're one of these people who wants to whip up mass hysteria, or simply someone who wants our fans to get more excited, be patient. We've been down this track before. We know where the jump over the creek is. We'll get to the creek - that's the easy part - but each year, only two teams managed to get through it.

We have to be one of those teams. And then we need to have enough energy to fend off the other mob who made it across.

What if Ross Lyon can eek out another 15-20% from this team before the end of the season by pushing this team to go a little further? Could that be the difference between a losing Preliminary and a Premiership? Maybe.

That's the thing. We can't relax. The job isn't even half done. We haven't even played our biggest threat. Can we get excited? Sure. Can we get pumped up? Absolutely. But get excited about the challenges we face and the manner of our efforts so far, rather than what we are yet to achieve.

I'm ecstatic that we're in a position to challenge. Fantastic. Brilliant. Amazing. Marvellous. Unexpected. And all the rest. I'm enjoying it immensly and I hope you are too.

Now, we need to plug another win against Carlton next week and get to the break. We need to get there, recharge, refuel, and sort ourselves for a tilt at what we really want.

So if there's a minor criticism of Gwilt, Blake, Clarke, Jones, etc - don't take it as though that player has been singled out because he has ugly hair. It boils down to this: we can pick 22 players each week. That's 22 opportunities for a match-winning (or saving) performance. 22 links in the chain, spokes on the wheel, etc. You can't really afford a rusty one.

It's fair to say that being 11-0, fans should be completely content and satisfied. And, to be fair, we all are. All of us. We couldn't be better than 11-0. However, could we be playing better as a team? Could other teams improve in between now and September? Could we be caught on the hop when it matters most?

The answer is yes. That's why we need to keep improving. Just that little bit. Maybe not every week, but we need to keep showing that we are a strong team that is hungry to win games at the start of the season, in the middle of the season and at the end of the season.

Always hungry. Never satisfied. The job is half done.

I'd hope Ross believes that we can overcome our supposed 'choker' status; that we can better ourselves, and realise this is just the start, not the end of what we hope is a journey that yields what we are planning for...

I hate to substitute the word "America" for our club, but Barack has it just about right...

"For that is the true genius of St Kilda – that St Kilda can change. Our club can be perfected. And what we have already achieved gives us hope for what we can and must achieve tomorrow."

We're turning at half-way in the marathon in front. The challenge now is to stay there.

[undecided]

First, if you don't read the whole of this post, read just the first bit below:

Barack Obama's election night speech:

"What began twenty-one months ago in the depths of winter must not end on this autumn night. This victory alone is not the change we seek; it is only the chance for us to make that change."

What Ross Lyon's speech should be to St Kilda fans today.



Can someone please sumarise this please, lol

"What began nine months ago in the depths of October must not end on this June night. This great start alone is not the victory we seek; it is only the chance for us to claim that premiership."

===========================

Still with me? Good. Well done. You're smarter than George Bush (he's bidding on guns on eBay). Here we go:

I WAS asked today why St Kilda fans aren't going around giving it the big talk, and then Joffaboy's thread kind of rammed home that it needs to be explained - in its own space - why there's not the frenzied talk that we had five years ago.

Firstly, we know footy. We know that Geelong lost twice last year. Once during the regular season. Once in the Grand Final. Whave they to show for it? Nada - except a desire to win something this year.

We also know our footy club. We've had amazing starts before. What have we to show for it?

This friggin' DVD:



See, there's this little thing called the last day in September. But if you don't win finals, you won't get there. We're 0-3 from our last three Preliminary Finals. It doesn't matter whether you're 22-0 or 12-10 - if you're five goals down with two minutes to play, you're in strife.

The H&A season, to me, is merely jostling to get organised for September. If you're not in the hunt, you should be playing kids until you have a squad capable of winning something.

You have to be in the top four. That's it - because you need to be playing in Preliminary Finals. Realistically, you need to be top two (but this season will probably be an all-Vic top four, like last year). We'll get that, which is great.

Unfortunately, here's the reality of football: winner takes all. The Brisbane Lions NEVER won the minor premiership under Leigh Matthews, yet are one of the greatest teams ever.

In very crude terms, the H&A serves two purposes: to weed out the crap teams and as a barrier draw for the good teams. A good barrier is essential to success, but it is no guarentee of that. You still have to hit the straight with gallons in the tank.

This is why I believe our supporters are not getting ahead of themselves. Equally, I think they know that the team simply has to find another 10-20% in September. Why? Because everybody else will be lifting 10-20% in September. Maybe more.

I cannot imagine anything more distressing in footy than winning every game EXCEPT for the big one. Sure, a wonderful year. But you're chokers. Not champions. Not the best. Not good enough. That's effectively the Geelong of last year. Maybe Geelong of this year. Maybe even us.

So, if you're one of these people who wants to whip up mass hysteria, or simply someone who wants our fans to get more excited, be patient. We've been down this track before. We know where the jump over the creek is. We'll get to the creek - that's the easy part - but each year, only two teams managed to get through it.

We have to be one of those teams. And then we need to have enough energy to fend off the other mob who made it across.

What if Ross Lyon can eek out another 15-20% from this team before the end of the season by pushing this team to go a little further? Could that be the difference between a losing Preliminary and a Premiership? Maybe.

That's the thing. We can't relax. The job isn't even half done. We haven't even played our biggest threat. Can we get excited? Sure. Can we get pumped up? Absolutely. But get excited about the challenges we face and the manner of our efforts so far, rather than what we are yet to achieve.

I'm ecstatic that we're in a position to challenge. Fantastic. Brilliant. Amazing. Marvellous. Unexpected. And all the rest. I'm enjoying it immensly and I hoep you are too.

Now, we need to plug another win against Carlton next week and get to the break. We need to get there, recharge, refuel, and sort ourselves for a tilt at what we really want.

So if there's a minor criticism of Gwilt, Blake, Clarke, Jones, etc - don't take it as though that player has been singled out because he has ugly hair. It boils down to this: we can pick 22 players each week. That's 22 opportunities for a match-winning (or saving) performance. 22 links in the chain, spokes on the wheel, etc. You can't really afford a rusty one.

It's fair to say that being 11-0, fans should be completely content and satisfied. And, to be fair, we all are. All of us. We couldn't be better than 11-0. However, could we be playing better as a team? Could other teams improve in between now and September? Could we be caught on the hop when it matters most?

The answer is yes. That's why we need to keep improving. Just that little bit. Maybe not every week, but we need to keep showing that we are a strong team that is hungry to win games at the start of the season, in the middle of the season and at the end of the season.

Always hungry. Never satisfied. The job is half done.

I'd hope Ross believes that we can overcome our supposed 'choker' status; that we can better ourselves, and realise this is just the start, not the end of what we hope is a journey that yields what we are planning for...

I hate to substitute the word "America" for our club, but Barack has it just about right...

"For that is the true genius of St Kilda – that St Kilda can change. Our club can be perfected. And what we have already achieved gives us hope for what we can and must achieve tomorrow."

We're turning at half-way in the marathon in front. The challenge now is to stay there.

[Sainterone]

great post Everton.

I'm feeling confident that we have the players that can get us to that last week in September this year.

Three games - one for 22 weeks - one for a month and then the real one...

[cowboy18]

Another presidential reason to be a little circumspect, if not cynical.

"Ich bin ein St Kilda-er"

Been there. Haven't done that.

Quite clearly will be engaged in some September hostilities and I'm way, way too scarred to think beyond how we can win 3 games in a row in September.

[saint patrick]

One of the posts of the year Everton

You are on the money...there is a far more measured ,circumspect approach from the entire supporter group than ever before and I think that more than any year 04 still burns deep in our psych ...

As you point out ..Home and Away is just about getting in position for the real stuff...and it comes down to form and who is peaking,injuries,suspensions etc.

So far so good...but it means little[jack squat!!!] unless we firstly get there[the grand final] and secondly win the bloody thing...

God I hope that this start means something come the last Saturday...

The comfort is that there is a stronger basis to the hope this year...

There is ability , team balance and maturity that has never been there before now...

What happens now is in the lap of the gods

[st.byron]

Great post Everton. Summed it up perfectly. Premiers in June means jacksh*t if it doesn't end in Premiers in September.

[saintsRrising]

As per the OP......and the reason why Saint's fans are not getting carried away with being 11-0....is that there is another team on 11-0 as well. Furthermore that other team has lost only several times in 50 odd game.

[saintly_safes]

I dont have the education or literacy skills to compete with that but I think that we are all enjoying the excitement of being where we are at but we all know too well the reality of whats ahead.Hes on the money we could finish top 2 & not make the the GF.Its a real possibility.To be brutally honest I dont think we have the team on paper to seriously challenge Geelong but we have a real sense of purpose this year & keep rising to every challenge . Im not an optimist far from it but I have a real beleif that we can go all the way this year.

[Saint Bev]

Great post, and yes so far so good on the field and off.

I am all for flying under the radar however, it is starting to give me the worms that there is not much credit given for our efforts. Listen to the commentary every week, its like they are willing us to loose. Papers say we are due for a loss. People are talking as though Geelong have already won rnd 14.

Well stuff the lot of them, lets show them what the 2009 Saints are made of. Keep up the great work boys.

[saintsRrising]

Players and coaches all basically say 11 zip is nice.....but are all focussed on Sept as being when it really counts.

We the fans are buy and large the same.

We are enjoying now...but what we really hunger for is September success.

The present is about building the momentum and self-belief to get there.....with Lyon tinkling with some players here and there (ie trying to develop Gwilt into a competent HF by sept).

[Mark]

A great post Everton. I wish I could express myself so eloquently.
I remember a few years back the club sending out a form requesting ideas from members to make the club membership more attractive/value for money. so we could increase our membership base.I wrote back in
large black texta across the form........

















"WIN THE PREMIERSHIP"

[Teflon]

The comfort is that there is a stronger basis to the hope this year...

This is what intrigues me the most.

Why? , why do we feel this year that we somehow have a stronger basis for our hopes?.....cause I feel it too.

I felt it on the weekend when Nth went 5 goals up.....I just knew this side would respond...why?

If you had told me that we will in 2009 be 11 zip with Jones, Gwilt, Mqualter, Blake, Geary's in the side I'd have laughed at you....yet we somehow seem sturdier, more dependable than the glitz of the 04 side??

Its not just cattle. Its attitude and IMHO it stems from the coach.

What Lyon has bought to St Kilda is a final realisation that hard work - not reputation - gets you a game. He simply doesnt care who you are. Read Mqualter in todays Age when he says "now I understand what I have to do to stay in this team" - and if he does those things Lyon rewards him. He stays in.

This intangible drives a culture of work ethic over ego and reputation. It reminds everyone that the coach isnt into pecking orders. If you "put in" every week then you get due reward for effort. If you dont, then you dont play. Its not personal....its football from a coach who understands what it takes to get a side playing as a team. This permeates the club and when success comes reinforcing plans A, B, C (cause he has these...) the players buy-in.

Lyons understated style also gives me confidence - he doesnt get rattled. He doesnt need to do a Malthouse dummy spit each week or a Thompson excuse sook if we lose....he simply reverts to the simple things of football that he KNOWS wins games. Unlike some coaches who would have you believe they are building rockets.....Lyon takes it back to a simple thing: effort.

[bigcarl]

fabulous post everton.

[joffaboy]

This is what intrigues me the most.

Why? , why do we feel this year that we somehow have a stronger basis for our hopes?.....cause I feel it too.

I felt it on the weekend when Nth went 5 goals up.....I just knew this side would respond...why?

If you had told me that we will in 2009 be 11 zip with Jones, Gwilt, Mqualter, Blake, Geary's in the side I'd have laughed at you....yet we somehow seem sturdier, more dependable than the glitz of the 04 side??

Its not just cattle. Its attitude and IMHO it stems from the coach.

What Lyon has bought to St Kilda is a final realisation that hard work - not reputation - gets you a game. He simply doesnt care who you are. Read Mqualter in todays Age when he says "now I understand what I have to do to stay in this team" - and if he does those things Lyon rewards him. He stays in.

This intangible drives a culture of work ethic over ego and reputation. It reminds everyone that the coach isnt into pecking orders. If you "put in" every week then you get due reward for effort. If you dont, then you dont play. Its not personal....its football from a coach who understands what it takes to get a side playing as a team. This permeates the club and when success comes reinforcing plans A, B, C (cause he has these...) the players buy-in.

Lyons understated style also gives me confidence - he doesnt get rattled. He doesnt need to do a Malthouse dummy spit each week or a Thompson excuse sook if we lose....he simply reverts to the simple things of football that he KNOWS wins games. Unlike some coaches who would have you believe they are building rockets.....Lyon takes it back to a simple thing: effort.

Good thread all round.

This post really says what I am thinking about this year.

it probably goes a long way toward explaining my frustration with the ad nauseum threads about how name player had to be in the team as walk up starts even though the team hasn't lost a game.

It is the attitude and philosophy of Lyon that many haven't cottoned on to in this regard.

As Teflon says 11-0 with Zac - Jimmy - Mini - Geary and Blake in the team at seasons beginning was unthinkable.

It is the fact that these type of players are the backbone of the team and the reason we have a steely resolve.

It frustrates me that the old attitudes of supporters - the messiah worshippers - are still about. This is not the St.Kilda of yesteryear where all we had to appreciate were individuals in a crap team. Now we have a TEAM to celebrate not just a few top notchers.

It is a bit like what you hear from people at the footy every week.

Man up Saints - oh who is on so and so etc - when the team is in a bloody zone

Old habits die hard.

[bigcarl]

It reminds everyone that the coach isnt into pecking orders.

i know what you are getting at, but i'm certain he acknowledges that some players are ahead of others.

[True Blue Sainter]

Everton - Once again, terrific post. Agree with all your sentiments. Qualtiy responses too Teffers and JB.

The thing that impresses me most about our team at the moment is how well-grounded the players and coaching staff. There seems to be a steely resolve and focus, which I've never seen before in my time supporting St Kilda. It is reassuring to know that unlike previous years, we can perform poorly for long periods of the match, and still end up winning quite comfortably. That is a defining trait of a quality side.

I love Ross Lyon's approach. He is always calm and measured in the media, and from what you can observe in the coaches box and in the team talks, seems to have a very firm grip on his emotions. This is a sign that he makes his decisions with his head, and retains the ability to make rational decisions (with his head, rather than his heart), both during a game and in the lead up to matches.

Fact: Great sides are measured on their success in September. As Everton alluded to, the Brisbane side in their halcyon era at the turn of this century never once won a minor premiership. But they always performed in crunch time i.e. FINALS. Although we've done well to make 3 Prelims in the past 5 seasons, it means bugger all unless you go on and win a Premiership. I think the penny has finally dropped, and this group realise they are getting older, and the chance to win that elusive flag together is slowly slipping away unless they improve certain facets of their game.

Thus, we've seen improved performances from several players that we would never have considered to be key personnel in the pre-season. Players like Geary, Mini, CJ, Gilbo, Zac and Gwilt have all played prominent voles at various stages throughout the season. These blokes may not be the most skilful in the side, but you can never fault them for their endeavour. And this, ladies and gentlemen, is straight from the Ross Lyon Coaching Manual. 100% effort (pressure, tackling, chasing, harassing, zoning off to help a team mate, shepherding etc.) goes a long way to being successful. Even if you're not kicking straight, or can't find the footy, if you're working as HARD AS YOU CAN when we have the ball and when we don't, you're contributing to the team.

We seem to be in better shape than previous seasons recently due to this, and the mental side of our game. The players show that they are able to switch on and grind away the opposition when we look threatened. At times this year, we've looked like we're barely out of second gear, until you realise we've kicked 4-5 goals for the quarter, and the opposition haven't even entered their F50. I haven't seen this sort of pressure and intensity from a Saints side in my lifetime (I'm 22).

Hopefully, we can keep plugging away, and when it comes to September, I hope that Ross and his crew will have instilled that winning philosophy so it is second nature. We MUST be able to perform in finals for this group to have gained any respect in the wider community. History is ours for the taking - LET'S TAKE IT!

[Raven]

I felt it on the weekend when Nth went 5 goals up.....I just knew this side would respond...why?

Same thing happened to me. A friend SMSed me at half-time saying "concerned?". I replied back saying "not at all". I don't know why, but somehow I just knew they'd come back. I didn't really doubt it for a second.

[James]

Excellent topic. Probably thread of the year. Everything is spot on.

That's why I'm so nervous. It's good to be winning now, but we'll be a an absolute laughing stock again if they screw up in the finals.

[Verdun66]

The recent quote in the Age about RL was that he was the most football-savvy coach going around. I really think our team-oriented style is his simpe work of art.

Feeling good that we have that total team football style really going.

[Solar]

agree with everything that has been said.

The key will be balance, structure and want.

Keeping the balance of the talls to short, correct match up which allow our players to play to their strengths (CJ as a fast tagger who hurts the other way etc.)

Keeping you structure on field when the s*** hits the fan. Running to the right areas, pressuring at the right time. Keeping out of other forwards space, repsecting your position in the side and not getting sucked into ball chasing.

Finally wanting the ball and the physical contest more then the opposition. This is what makes the difference. Have a look a trioli and dew in the grand final. They wanted it more

[yipper]

Excellent read this. Funny isn't it - we were trailing badly at half time, yet never once at any stage ever, did I think we would lose. I just knew they would work their way back into it and then blow them away. They did exactly that. This team is damn good, the best I have seen ever - I am 50!! Yet, they remain totally focussed on what lies ahead. They are not looking in the rear view mirror - they are always looking straight ahead. Very determined, mentally tough unit this StKilda team. Very impressive. I feel totally confident that Ross Lyon knows what lies ahead and how to prepare for it.

[Quixote]

This is indeed a new St Kilda. A St Kilda with maturity, commitment and unity hitherto unseen.

Agree with just about all in this thread. Also, I think we are playing in 3rd gear right now. Compared to the first five rounds we are coasting. It's almost as if they've realised, 'Hey, this stuff really works', and they know when they're in control of a game, and know they don't have to blitzkrieg to win. Round 14 I'm sure the intensity will lift. Also, think there is truth to the rumour we've been hitting the weights in preparation for the 2nd half of the season.


HOWEVER...


My biggest worry is this: The players listed in the Top 5 each week. They have become very routine and similar. We know who they are. Against Geelong and Hawthorn, these 5-10 players cannot take us all the way. We need all 22. I completely acknowledge the input and impact of our bottom 10. However the gap does still seem to exist.

[evertonfc]

What an excellent thread (save for the politically-inspired OP ) this has turned out to be. Thanks to all for the contributions. Insight, analysis, honesty - all the good stuff that makes this place worth visiting.

My biggest worry is this: The players listed in the Top 5 each week. They have become very routine and similar. We know who they are. Against Geelong and Hawthorn, these 5-10 players cannot take us all the way. We need all 22. I completely acknowledge the input and impact of our bottom 10. However the gap does still seem to exist.

Interesting points, Quixote.

I think our bottom six have been fantastic this season because they are no longer weak links in the chain - we have 22 contributors each week.

But it's a question worth pondering: how will they stand up if our guns don't? It's a concern; it has to be - but it's a concern for any team as well, I reckon, not just us.

However, I can remember matches early this year where Roo wasn't brilliant, but those around him picked up the slack. I can also think of matches where a key midfielder wasn't at his best but others rallied, etc.

So, in a way, that question has been answered. But it hasn't been answered in September, against top teams. I suppose we still have that to prove.

Thank goodness we are not as reliant on Roo this year. Last year, he carried us into the top four off his own back. This year, he's been equally good - but so many others have stepped up.

It's been great to watch. We'll face some challenges to keep our W/L record so perfect for the rest of the year, but I'd like to think we won't leave many stones unturned.

And FWIW, how good is it to have confidence that our players will fight back and wrestle control of a match? It's a great trait. It would unsettle the opposition too. It boils down to belief, something we have in spades.

Again, it's a matter of maintaining that belief, confidence and application for another 15 weeks.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

For a review on why we don't have Saints fans out waving flags in everyone's faces, why we don't have a giant "We're coming" campaign, the OP puts it brilliantly.

Seen big starts before, we want some September glory.

However, I'm really starting to realise as game in game out I (and others) are getting more demanding of what we get from the Saints that the ghost of disappointments past is probably preventing me from enjoying the moment.

4 out the the last 5 years we've been at least an outside chance and a couple of times an inside chance to take the big prize. I wonder whether if we'd taken even one of those I'd be in a better position not to have been filthy about spotting the Kangas a 5 goal lead before playing 3 quarters of terrific footy to turn that into a near 50 point win.

11 and 0 is a pretty fair accomplishment. At this stage everything is coloured by the sheer emptiness of the premiership cup cabinet down Linton St.

Along the theme of the OP, the Saints have had the audacity to make us hope again. Should that hope be disappointed how many will be able to give credit for the achievement of the team, and how many will simply see another failure.

I honestly couldn't say where I'll end up.

[StSteven]

Great post. What annoys me about finals is that they are hit and miss and so much luck is involved. So often the best team does not win i (eg Cats losing last year, Adelaide winning their two).

For that reason I would love to see the premiership given to the winner of best of three games by the top two teams. Then it would be the premier team taking the flag.

Until that happens (and it never will) my heart will be in my mouth until 5:10 pm on that last day in Sept.

My biggest fear is the ridicule that comes from losing in finaals especially GF. Cats friends tell me they would rather have not made the GF than having lost it.

If it was a fair draw the top team at the end of the H&A would get a lot more recognition.