Breen on Fox...

[Milton66]

Great listen last nite from Barry Breen.

Was asked why the club's history was so.

He mentioned that poor decisions were made along the way, and that due to financial reasons, we couldn't keep our good players.

Interesting was his observation of the zoning system and how it robbed us of some superstars who went to HAwthorn.

More interesting was his comment that although Lindsay Fox save the club financially, it also killed some of it's soul, and that the club was never the same afterwards.

I can only read into this that the measures were too harsh in respect of a footy club, and that many players felt burnt by the process.

Any old supporters of the time care to discuss their views?

[borderbarry]

I always thought we should done better out of the Ballaratt zone than we did.

[onlooker]

Great listen last nite from Barry Breen.

Was asked why the club's history was so.

He mentioned that poor decisions were made along the way, and that due to financial reasons, we couldn't keep our good players.

Interesting was his observation of the zoning system and how it robbed us of some superstars who went to HAwthorn.

More interesting was his comment that although Lindsay Fox save the club financially, it also killed some of it's soul, and that the club was never the same afterwards.

I can only read into this that the measures were too harsh in respect of a footy club, and that many players felt burnt by the process.

Any old supporters of the time care to discuss their views?

I understand Breen's comment re Fox's actions and its effect on the Club and the players but my recollection of the events (and I may be wrong, it's a long time ago) is that if he hadn't taken this action at the time there was a strong liklihood the Club would have been finished. StK FC was broke. I remember that Carlton FC refused to accept the arrangements at the creditors' meeting and wanted StK's assets (such as they were) sold so they could get their money.

So I reckon that the grief caused at the time could have been a lot, lot worse in that the Club was finished. The personal cost was that people like cowboy, Jeans, Barker O'Dea and Breen et al were not paid what they were owed.

[robbie muir]

The club had huge debts. The past players still owed money were offered something like 22.5 cents in the dollar and all other creditors about 7.5 cents in the dollar. i think these figures are correct.

Trevor Barker who won the best and fairest in 1981 and won a car gave the car back to the club for them to auction it off and raise money to pay off debts( the guy was an absolute legend).

At the time only 2 creditors voted against the proposal. One was a stationer in Moorabbin who was owed some money for filing cabinets and the other was guess who. It was bloody Carlton who were owed money from some player transfers. They said something to the effect at the time.
"Let St.Kilda Rot."

And people wonder why so many Saints suppoerters hate Carlton with a passion. Even more than Collingwood.

[Animal Enclosure]

I heard Butterss talk about similar stuff a few years back & he mentioned that the stand at Moorabbin was the noose around the club's neck.

The debt that the stand brought meant that we were forever having to sell players to other clubs & that really meant that the late 60's-late 80's was a period where we struggled to keep a number of quality players nor attract interstate players.

I always find it funny when Carlton supporters dredge up crap about the 80's when their stand (the Legends) would have bankrupted their stinking cesspool of a club had it not been for old Crooked Dick's tainted cash.

The pain & frustration of all that have followed this club through desperately horrible times will be hopefully washed away in a little over a fortnights time. If only Barks was still here to see it.

[saintbrat]

links is here for those who didn't hear.
http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... hp?t=56276

[To the top]

The major Creditor was ANZ Bank and Fox used his considerable status as a very influential client of ANZ to persuade ANZ to accept the resolution - which was a requirement for it to be passed.

In fact, Fox may have presented an alternative to ANZ which included Fox no longer banking ANZ!

There were issues between the Social Club and the Football Club, who eventually merged many years later.

And Form 4's were sold to obtain the cash required to survive the club on a day by day basis.

I recall McAllister trying to persuade Payze to vote to terminate the "equalisation fund" and offering Payze a certain sum of money to vote that way, knowing how desperate St Kilda Football Club was for cash even thru that period of time.

The turn around came following the merger of the Social Club with the Football Club (which was vigorously opposed by elements) and then the concentration on the eradication of debt.

No doubt the restructure of the competition by the AFL has also served St Kilda well but St Kilda did put in much of the hard yards effort which has underpinned the Club and its viability today.

All we need now is a benefactor to give Sandilands a "job" on the understanding he will play for St Kilda - using Pratt and Judd as the model!

There is no doubt our financial position today is superior to many clubs (or we hope it is!), including Collingwood which is sitting on the Capital write-downs of its debt laden, loss making hotels where the Contracts of Sale crystallising the Capital losses and bringing the Trading Losses to a halt have fallen over because no one can borrow to purchase such assets.

Then there is Carlton's position, saved from bankruptcy by Pratt of Visy Board cartel fame which has cost each and every one of us who has purchased packaged goods.

The Class Action should be interesting!

Then there is Geelong where Westpac wrote off $3M of their $7M debt and Bendigo Bank then banked Geelong and the residual $4M of debt.

So the Saints are no orphans!

And that is without mentioning the likes of Port Adelaide, Melbourne, Western Bulldogs, Sydney and North Melbourne (for starters) which rely on SANFL and AFL hand outs to survive.

Then along come Gold Coast and West Sydney!

[stinger]

I heard Butterss talk about similar stuff a few years back & he mentioned that the stand at Moorabbin was the noose around the club's neck.

The debt that the stand brought meant that we were forever having to sell players to other clubs & that really meant that the late 60's-late 80's was a period where we struggled to keep a number of quality players nor attract interstate players.

I always find it funny when Carlton supporters dredge up crap about the 80's when their stand (the Legends) would have bankrupted their stinking cesspool of a club had it not been for old Crooked Dick's tainted cash.

The pain & frustration of all that have followed this club through desperately horrible times will be hopefully washed away in a little over a fortnights time. If only Barks was still here to see it.

he will be watching mate ...along with my dear old mum...and a swag of others.....

[bergholt]

There is no doubt our financial position today is superior to many clubs (or we hope it is!), including Collingwood which is sitting on the Capital write-downs of its debt laden, loss making hotels where the Contracts of Sale crystallising the Capital losses and bringing the Trading Losses to a halt have fallen over because no one can borrow to purchase such assets.

Despite this bad call, Collingwood are still in an excellent financial position. You have to remember that the only reason they bought the hotels in the first place was because they had such a large pile of cash with no physical way to spend it all on football, mainly because of the salary cap.

[Stillwaiting]

I heard Butterss talk about similar stuff a few years back & he mentioned that the stand at Moorabbin was the noose around the club's neck.

The debt that the stand brought meant that we were forever having to sell players to other clubs & that really meant that the late 60's-late 80's was a period where we struggled to keep a number of quality players nor attract interstate players.

I always find it funny when Carlton supporters dredge up crap about the 80's when their stand (the Legends) would have bankrupted their stinking cesspool of a club had it not been for old Crooked Dick's tainted cash.

The pain & frustration of all that have followed this club through desperately horrible times will be hopefully washed away in a little over a fortnights time. If only Barks was still here to see it.

he will be watching mate ...along with my dear old mum...and a swag of others.....

And my mum, if it could she see the saints now

[Stillwaiting]

Great listen last nite from Barry Breen.

Was asked why the club's history was so.

He mentioned that poor decisions were made along the way, and that due to financial reasons, we couldn't keep our good players.

Interesting was his observation of the zoning system and how it robbed us of some superstars who went to HAwthorn.

More interesting was his comment that although Lindsay Fox save the club financially, it also killed some of it's soul, and that the club was never the same afterwards.

I can only read into this that the measures were too harsh in respect of a footy club, and that many players felt burnt by the process.

Any old supporters of the time care to discuss their views?

I understand Breen's comment re Fox's actions and its effect on the Club and the players but my recollection of the events (and I may be wrong, it's a long time ago) is that if he hadn't taken this action at the time there was a strong liklihood the Club would have been finished. StK FC was broke. I remember that Carlton FC refused to accept the arrangements at the creditors' meeting and wanted StK's assets (such as they were) sold so they could get their money.

So I reckon that the grief caused at the time could have been a lot, lot worse in that the Club was finished. The personal cost was that people like cowboy, Jeans, Barker O'Dea and Breen et al were not paid what they were owed.

I remember all this and they way I remember events if it wasnt for Fox, there was no way the club would have lasted the 80`s. Also vaguely remember carlto tried to take us over.

And it has always annoyed me that we should be criticised while the afl kept the swans dogs roos melb all afloat, and later handed flags to beagles, crows, lion (well made it very easy for them) and yet we got bagged. Yes there have been times when were badly managed, and poor decions made, but on a level playing field with no cheating (carlton, essondon) we may have done better.

[terry smith rules]

I always thought we should done better out of the Ballaratt zone than we did.

no Lockett, Frawley, Burns, joffa, kiel, gellie, dunne, perovic, muir odgers etc were all duds

[To the top]

If Collingwood had such a pile of cash when they bought the hotels, why did they borrow so full and why don't they extinguish their debt (and the cost of that debt) such that the enterprises have a chance to actually make some money?

What is putting extreme pressure on the performances of those hotels is the cost of the interest on the borrowings undertaken to purchase the hotels.

The agenda is not in Collingwood's hands - as it wasn't some years ago.

Hence the efforts to sell.

[Milton66]

I heard Butterss talk about similar stuff a few years back & he mentioned that the stand at Moorabbin was the noose around the club's neck.

The debt that the stand brought meant that we were forever having to sell players to other clubs & that really meant that the late 60's-late 80's was a period where we struggled to keep a number of quality players nor attract interstate players.

I always find it funny when Carlton supporters dredge up crap about the 80's when their stand (the Legends) would have bankrupted their stinking cesspool of a club had it not been for old Crooked Dick's tainted cash.

The pain & frustration of all that have followed this club through desperately horrible times will be hopefully washed away in a little over a fortnights time. If only Barks was still here to see it.

he will be watching mate ...along with my dear old mum...and a swag of others.....

And my mum, if it could she see the saints now

And my old man also. Maybe there's a Moorabbin wing / cloud up in heaven for all former Saints followers.

[Stillwaiting]

I heard Butterss talk about similar stuff a few years back & he mentioned that the stand at Moorabbin was the noose around the club's neck.

The debt that the stand brought meant that we were forever having to sell players to other clubs & that really meant that the late 60's-late 80's was a period where we struggled to keep a number of quality players nor attract interstate players.

I always find it funny when Carlton supporters dredge up crap about the 80's when their stand (the Legends) would have bankrupted their stinking cesspool of a club had it not been for old Crooked Dick's tainted cash.

The pain & frustration of all that have followed this club through desperately horrible times will be hopefully washed away in a little over a fortnights time. If only Barks was still here to see it.

he will be watching mate ...along with my dear old mum...and a swag of others.....

And my mum, if it could she see the saints now

And my old man also. Maybe there's a Moorabbin wing / cloud up in heaven for all former Saints followers.

And they would all be screaming abuse at the scum we beat in the gf (wont matter who we play they are scum),my mum would be cursing the umpires as we know they cheat

She luved Trevor

[onlooker]

From what I have read here Barry Breen has described the effect of Lindsay Fox's actions on the Club at the time as adverse. In the short to medium term this is understandable particularly if you missed money owed to you. From a long term perspective Fox's actions appear to have saved the Club from extinction and at the time he doesn't appear to have had much of an alternative other than to see the Club fold and the creditors move in. I have a vague recollection of a quote from Fox at the time which went something along the lines of 'if this had been a business of mine I would have buried it long ago, but you can't do that with League Clubs particularly ones which have part of your heart'.

[Milton66]

According to Simon Meehan, Fox called everyone in and said words to the effect of "either you accept this, or we close the doors tomorrow".

The interesting thing is that I don't recall us having a strong Past Players club, although I'm probably wrong.

And it's a taken a while to get Roberts and Cowboy back to the club.

So maybe the players took their hit, but were annoyed. Given that they created the success and won a flag, then have all their work undone by inept decisions...

[Bowey Boy]

Great listen last nite from Barry Breen.

.......
I can only read into this that the measures were too harsh in respect of a footy club, and that many players felt burnt by the process....

I have nothing but respect for Barry but he was relieved of the Captaincy around this time. I know he was hurt by this because there used to be a phone line you could call and hear the views of the "player of the week". Barry told me personally of his hurt at this decision on this line.....er...in a pre-recorded message.

I clearly had no life then or 30 odd years later !!