Gary Ablett deal and what it means to the Saints

[howlinwolf]

I think this new deal being brokered between Cotton On and Gary Ablett to stop him from going to the Gold Coast will have a flow on effect that will cause the demise of some clubs.

If players can get these deals done outside the salary cap (with the help
from their club) it surely will be the death knell for the poorer clubs not
able to do this.

I may be cynical but I think the AFL has no problem with these deals as
they know it will end in club rationalisation which is what they need.

It won't just be the Gold Coast or GWS looking for players though.
Why couldn't Carlton look to get elite players from other clubs ?

I'm sure they have plenty of cashed up businesses that would help them.

Would North Melbourne, Bulldogs or us have the same ability ?

This will send us back to the 70's where the richest clubs won the flags
and the poorest stayed that way.

Now more then ever we need to work towards keeping our club as financial as possible.

[SainterK]

I guess we can't really judge, Roo could already be endorsing bed sheets for all we know, there is currently over 100 deals on record with the AFL

The part of it that annoys me is that Costa blatantly admits it, CEO cleans up his admission, and the AFL turn a blind eye.

[ausfatcat]

AFL doesn't turn a blind eye they say it is allowed and have said so for years. This is nothing new by a long shot it's just that clubs now openly admit it.

Why hasn't Geelong or the saints or the bulldogs, or Hawthorn lost any players due to the salary cap over the last 5 years?

[SainterK]

Does it sit so well with the AFL when the club organises it though?

I thought the fact the Costa admitted the club was putting the hat out was what had raised eyebrows.

Players can organise deals together with their player manager, but the club president admitted he was playing the part of spruker, and has now backed away from the situation.

[Elvis]

AFL doesn't turn a blind eye they say it is allowed and have said so for years. This is nothing new by a long shot it's just that clubs now openly admit it.

Why hasn't Geelong or the saints or the bulldogs, or Hawthorn lost any players due to the salary cap over the last 5 years?

Agree. Complete media pre-season hyperbole. Has been happening for a long, long time. Frank Costa's public announcement is no different to Buddha Hocking's momentary name change (to Whiska's). If anything and for the sake of entertainment I hope we see a return to this sort of transparency.

The mind boggles, we could have name changes at St.Kilda. Some suggestions, feel free to add........

Nick BHP Riewoldt
Stevie BUNNINGS WAREHOUSE Baker
Stephen 7/11 Milne etc etc

[ausfatcat]

Loyd, Judd, Voss, Holland are all deals I know of that the clubs organised, the only difference with Ablett is that the club president is talking about it in the press.

Even Roo's last contract had his manager and the club saying "we have to get creative". Mind you talk of these payments haven't mentioned the guareenteed property deals yet which are allowed as well.

It's what I have been saying in regards to free agency, it will destroy smalleer clubs (us being one of them) because at the moment we don't really have a salary cap as there are so many ways around it that are deemed ok by the AFL.

[SainterK]

OK thanks guys, this site really helps to clarify things for me. So it's just the fact that Costa was honest that has caused the hype....interesting.

[ausfatcat]

I wouldn't say honest just being open, I would even go so far to say Costa has done this deliberately to highlight this problem to the wider football community and what free agency will actually mean to the AFL.


I mean right now you 112 players getting these payments, in a system that doesn't allow free movement (ie you generally have to give something up to get a player, draft picks or players ect) which restricts clubs raiding other teams. In a system that where you don't have to give up anything this will expload raiding will become common place again.

What they need to do is ban third party payments like they do in the NFL and get rid of the property deals as well and increase the salary caps to compensate amd police and enforce the salary cap.

note: third part payments are not endoursements.

[Eastern]

The Ablett saga is a flow-on from the Judd-Visy deal that the AFL was either unable or unwilling to do anything about. Most clubs have 3rd party deals. Almost the entire West Coast list has 3rd party deals.

I think you will find that Nick Riewoldt has a 3rd party deal with Mercedes of Melbourne where he is given use of a Mercedes-Benz vehicle !!

[ausfatcat]

Eastern I think you will find it has been around longer than the Judd deal and oked by the AFL before that, it's just that the Judd is huge and involved a transfer and was therefore highlighted in the media.

[Eastern]

Eastern I think you will find it has been around longer than the Judd deal and oked by the AFL before that, it's just that the Judd is huge and involved a transfer and was therefore highlighted in the media.

Exactly, and the Ableet deal is NOT too dissimilar. What effect these sort of deals will have in the future is anyone's guess. The ONLY thing that is certain is that the Managers will be getting their 5% !!

[stinger]

the afl doesn't give a stuff about the melbourne clubs...anything it okays will be done to protect or advance the two new clubs.....including this crap and free agency.......something those clubs won't have to worry about for ten years but which will provide a constant supply of marque players to them in the meantime......businesses in qld and nsw will be queuing up to tip money into these clubs.....including doing deals like the judd fiasco.....f****** crooks....

[borderbarry]

The Judd deal was done to GAIN a player. The Geelong one is being done to RETAIN a player. Whatever. It still should be included in the salary cap.

[borderbarry]

If the AFL are happy to turn a blind eye to this sort of thing they should be sacked. The alternative is to increase the salary cap. Not too hard to work out.

[saintlee]

If the AFL wanted Vic teams to fold, why would they give them money from special distribution fund or whatever its called....and why would they poor money into redeveloping training venues??

AFL is committed to a 16 comp (soon to be 18 team) comp...I just don't see how they are trying to kill Vic clubs, that is just fear-mongering

[stinger]

If the AFL wanted Vic teams to fold, why would they give them money from special distribution fund or whatever its called....and why would they poor money into redeveloping training venues??

AFL is committed to a 16 comp (soon to be 18 team) comp...I just don't see how they are trying to kill Vic clubs, that is just fear-mongering

idn't say they were trying to kill them...just that they couldn't give a stuff about them...they could hardl pump mllions into nsw and queensland and not give the vic clubs the crumbs left on the table now could they.....???

[ausfatcat]

AFL is committed to a 16 comp (soon to be 18 team) comp...I just don't see how they are trying to kill Vic clubs, that is just fear-mongering

But no longer committed to the cyclic success competition. As long as they have their 16 or 18 teams for the TV revenue they wont care that 6 of them have no hope of winning a premiership or making the finals ever. So ineffect those clubs become feeder/development clubs for the biggers ones (remember the saints/carlton in the 80's), which basicly kills that club from ever achieving success again, they will exist but they will just be hanging around.

[saintlee]

AFL is committed to a 16 comp (soon to be 18 team) comp...I just don't see how they are trying to kill Vic clubs, that is just fear-mongering

But no longer committed to the cyclic success competition. As long as they have their 16 or 18 teams for the TV revenue they wont care that 6 of them have no hope of winning a premiership or making the finals ever. So ineffect those clubs become feeder/development clubs for the biggers ones (remember the saints/carlton in the 80's), which basicly kills that club from ever achieving success again, they will exist but they will just be hanging around.

How so?

The salary cap is still in place, so is the draft system.

These 3rd party payments are strictly controlled, and will be under even stricker control soon from what I understand.

The AFL has worked to keep the comp even for the last however many years, why would they throw that away now? Where is the benefit to that?

[ausfatcat]

How so?

The salary cap is still in place, so is the draft system.

These 3rd party payments are strictly controlled, and will be under even stricker control soon from what I understand.

Huh the salary cap is in place, but third party payments aloud?

With 112 players receiving third party payments and people like Judd receiving 100/200 thousand to speak to some employees once a year sound like strickly controlled to you?

Does the NBL, or NRL, or NFL all organisations with salary cap's allow these sort of payments? No they don't because they destroy the integrity of the salary cap. They need to dispose of the third party payments for the salary cap to be effective otherwise it is just a ceremonial figure and player managers and clubs will rort the s*** out of it. The AFL (probably not deliberately) has backed it's self into a corner over this by allowing it in the past as it didn't destroy the eveness because of the draft/trading system currently in place. But will they fix it? That is far from a guareentee as we all know they don't like admitting there wrong (ie no tanking happens in the AFL). And even if they doi eventually fix it how much damage will be done in the mean time.

With the AFL not allowing free agency until now it really hasn't mattered much as above because they still had to give up something in return for players but you will find this will now expload because they can now receive players without giving up anything.

No one has mentioned the under written property deals for players as well that are common place as well. Where a player invests in a property and is guareenteed a value increase over the life of their contract (highlighted by the Holland court case).

[saintlee]

Does the NBL, or NRL, or NFL all organisations with salary cap's allow these sort of payments? No they don't because they destroy the integrity of the salary cap.

You know this for a fact? Or are you just saying it to make a point?

[saintlee]

With 112 players receiving third party payments and people like Judd receiving 100/200 thousand to speak to some employees once a year sound like strickly controlled to you?

They are strickly controlled in that clubs are not allowed to seek them out, if I understand it correcly, they are private arrangements between a player and a sponsor.

I'm pretty sure that if the club seeks out a 3rd party payment, then it must be counted under the salary cap.

[plugger66]

I think this new deal being brokered between Cotton On and Gary Ablett to stop him from going to the Gold Coast will have a flow on effect that will cause the demise of some clubs.

If players can get these deals done outside the salary cap (with the help
from their club) it surely will be the death knell for the poorer clubs not
able to do this.

I may be cynical but I think the AFL has no problem with these deals as
they know it will end in club rationalisation which is what they need.

It won't just be the Gold Coast or GWS looking for players though.
Why couldn't Carlton look to get elite players from other clubs ?

I'm sure they have plenty of cashed up businesses that would help them.

Would North Melbourne, Bulldogs or us have the same ability ?

This will send us back to the 70's where the richest clubs won the flags
and the poorest stayed that way.

Now more then ever we need to work towards keeping our club as financial as possible.

The last thing they want is rationaisation. They want at least 18 sides to get their 1 billion for broadcast rights. By the way these deals have been going on for years. Nothing new. Still has to be approved by the AFL. Will have no or minimal impact on any club.

[plugger66]

How so?

The salary cap is still in place, so is the draft system.

These 3rd party payments are strictly controlled, and will be under even stricker control soon from what I understand.

Huh the salary cap is in place, but third party payments aloud?

With 112 players receiving third party payments and people like Judd receiving 100/200 thousand to speak to some employees once a year sound like strickly controlled to you?

Does the NBL, or NRL, or NFL all organisations with salary cap's allow these sort of payments? No they don't because they destroy the integrity of the salary cap. They need to dispose of the third party payments for the salary cap to be effective otherwise it is just a ceremonial figure and player managers and clubs will rort the s*** out of it. The AFL (probably not deliberately) has backed it's self into a corner over this by allowing it in the past as it didn't destroy the eveness because of the draft/trading system currently in place. But will they fix it? That is far from a guareentee as we all know they don't like admitting there wrong (ie no tanking happens in the AFL). And even if they doi eventually fix it how much damage will be done in the mean time.

With the AFL not allowing free agency until now it really hasn't mattered much as above because they still had to give up something in return for players but you will find this will now expload because they can now receive players without giving up anything.

No one has mentioned the under written property deals for players as well that are common place as well. Where a player invests in a property and is guareenteed a value increase over the life of their contract (highlighted by the Holland court case).

What do you mean the NRL and NBL dont allow thes payments. Of course they do. That is just a lie to make your arguement. Anything you have mentioned in the above post has no factual merit. Just made up rubbish.

[saintly]

Well Dal Santo is in his final year.

how much $$$ for Dal Santo to stay at stkilda? will dal santo be lured up north?

[saintlee]

With 112 players receiving third party payments and people like Judd receiving 100/200 thousand to speak to some employees once a year sound like strickly controlled to you?

They are strickly controlled in that clubs are not allowed to seek them out, if I understand it correcly, they are private arrangements between a player and a sponsor.

I'm pretty sure that if the club seeks out a 3rd party payment, then it must be counted under the salary cap.

Found this at AFL.com......pretty much spells out what I was trying to say earlier:

"AFL football operations manager Adrian Anderson has reiterated the AFL will be tougher in scrutinising total player payments when the League absorbs the changes of free agency and two extra teams.

Gold Coast and Greater Western Sydney will both be playing in a competition that will operate with the limited free agency rules from the 2012 season. Anderson said clubs will be even more closely monitored in regards to salary cap payments.

"With the advent of free agency and two new clubs, we will be extra vigilant in our approach to deals with sponsors," he said.

"At the moment, they constitute less than one and a half per cent of money paid to players and our cap is probably one of the hardest caps in international sport.

"We're determined to continue to make sure we're vigilant in protecting our salary cap, because it is fundamental to the evenness of the competition."

Anderson said he and Ken Wood, who oversees the Total Player Payments at the AFL, will be ticking off any arrangements involving players outside of the salary cap.

"The salary cap is fundamental to the success of our competition", Anderson said.

"Any deal between a club and a player goes inside the salary cap unless Ken Wood and myself are satisfied that there are good grounds for it to be outside the cap - that's the most simplistic I can put it."

"[The deals] must be bona fide and they must be commercial and they must be independent of the club. If the club arranges a deal, then that will not go outside the cap."

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx