The last time we lost two key backs

[fugazi]

With Max and Goose gone, it reminds me of the hasty decision to trade/ delist the Wakelins. What followed was a pretty bleak period in defence for us, and I'm not seeing alot of depth there now. Wrong move to trade Goose!

[sunsaint]

With Max and Goose gone, it reminds me of the hasty decision to trade/ delist the Wakelins. What followed was a pretty bleak period in defence for us, and I'm not seeing alot of depth there now. Wrong move to trade Goose!

also lost Shanahan round that time.
We did not hold that '97 GF team together for very long in the following seasons.

[SaintWodonga]

We got rid of Ball, Goose and X for 1 pick. Major blunder. Plus we basically wasted our 1st round pick. Out of all of that, getting rid of Goose seems pretty stupid. When do not have a lot to choose from in full back. Should have kept Goose on, maybe to, he was simply out of favour with coach.
Goose would be a walk up start IMO. Watch him play well for the Lions this year...

Some bad choices being made at the top...

[stinger]

With Max and Goose gone, it reminds me of the hasty decision to trade/ delist the Wakelins. What followed was a pretty bleak period in defence for us, and I'm not seeing alot of depth there now. Wrong move to trade Goose!

yep.........

[saintsRrising]

. Out of all of that, getting rid of Goose seems pretty stupid. When do not have a lot to choose from in full back. ...

Goose did not play well at FB.

Mount a case for CHB if you wil...but FB no.

[thejiggingsaint]

I'd love to think that Matt Maguire will once again be the player that he was. Sadly, NO ...tragically, I cannot see Matt playing AFL again, and I'll have to "agree to disagree" with Saint Wodonga as to Matt being a "walk up start" The injury He suffered and the later complications prevent him becoming anywhere near the player he once was, and to start the doomsaying about our defence at this stage is quite frankly, premature.
Let us see just how the coach and the football department address any defensive concerns we may have come the season proper.
Its simply wasted energy to be now wise after the event and pine for the loss of Max, and Goose. We did reasonably well for 19 rounds of AFL in 2009 without Max or Goose being regular team members. Thats NOT a criticism of two fine servants of the club, just stating a fact.
I'm ready to get behind WHOEVER may be wearing red-black-and-white.
We should ALL be!

[stinger]

I'd love to think that Matt Maguire will once again be the player that he was. Sadly, NO ...tragically, I cannot see Matt playing AFL again, and I'll have to "agree to disagree" with Saint Wodonga as to Matt being a "walk up start" The injury He suffered and the later complications prevent him becoming anywhere near the player he once was, and to start the doomsaying about our defence at this stage is quite frankly, premature.
Let us see just how the coach and the football department address any defensive concerns we may have come the season proper.
Its simply wasted energy to be now wise after the event and pine for the loss of Max, and Goose. We did reasonably well for 19 rounds of AFL in 2009 without Max or Goose being regular team members. Thats NOT a criticism of two fine servants of the club, just stating a fact.
I'm ready to get behind WHOEVER may be wearing red-black-and-white.
We should ALL be!

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx


bit premature to write him right off imho....

[thejiggingsaint]

Interesting article Stinger, but a form in a practice game is one thing, playing at the level of AFL is another. As I said, I hope that Goose is going to prove me wrong, (as well as many others) but my feelings are that He will be a back up at best.

[HarveysDeciple]

What was our backline post the Wakelins?

Max - reliable

then Plapp, for a while Barry Hall, Troy Schwarze?

Then maguire developed with fisher under that after about 3 years.

This time our defence is a lot better.

Dawson, Fisher, Gilbert, Blake

then medium back up options like Gwilt, Goddard etc.

And some young guys coming up who look ok.....although a lot to prove.

Gaertner, Simpkin etc.

We are much better off now then then. IMO

[Middo]

With Max and Goose gone, it reminds me of the hasty decision to trade/ delist the Wakelins. What followed was a pretty bleak period in defence for us, and I'm not seeing alot of depth there now. Wrong move to trade Goose!

Let go he had all last year to make the side , lets see how many games he gets with Brisbane before we start getting on the "Why did we let Goose go bandwagon "!!

[bobmurray]

Whoever plays down back can they at least work out the kick ins...

Where is our kick in strategy or don't we have one.....

[Thinline]

We got rid of Ball, Goose and X for 1 pick. Major blunder. Plus we basically wasted our 1st round pick. Out of all of that, getting rid of Goose seems pretty stupid. When do not have a lot to choose from in full back. Should have kept Goose on, maybe to, he was simply out of favour with coach.
Goose would be a walk up start IMO. Watch him play well for the Lions this year...

Some bad choices being made at the top...

Watched Goose at Southport. Average. Slow as.

Tell you what though. Lions are BIG. Merrett, Brown, Fev, Leuenberger, Staker (was he always such a chesty bicep dude?).

Maguire is no squirt, but he looked like a skinny little kid next to most of them.

[3rd generation saint]

Dawson has a corked thigh, he will be right or round 1, we've only lost Sam Fisher for a few weeks.

[goodie]

Last time that happened, we found Sam Fisher

[meher baba]

When guys like Maguire, Ball and - perhaps eventually - X go well for other clubs, it eats away at our club's collective morale.

If Maguire keeps going well at the Lions, Fisher stays injured, and Dawson doesn't get his s@#t together soon, the whole thing could become a bit of a problem.

Unlike Ball, I reckon we could have hung onto Goose but for our deciding to go big time with Zac as FB. With the two Sams, Raph and Blake all doing so well in 2009, and Goose could see that there wasn't a great prospect of winning a place.

So I hope Zac turns out well in the longer term. We heard a lot from Mr Drain last season about what a genius piece of recruiting getting hold of Zac was on his part. Mr Drain has now gone totally silent since another genius piece of recruiting on his part - with lots of input from all his old Bomber mates - didn't turn out quite so wonderfully.

Whether Goose goes good, bad or indifferently won't matter if Sam Fisher gets back soon and Zac gets his act together again.

Otherwise............................

[plugger66]

When guys like Maguire, Ball and - perhaps eventually - X go well for other clubs, it eats away at our club's collective morale.

If Maguire keeps going well at the Lions, Fisher stays injured, and Dawson doesn't get his s@#t together soon, the whole thing could become a bit of a problem.

Unlike Ball, I reckon we could have hung onto Goose but for our deciding to go big time with Zac as FB. With the two Sams, Raph and Blake all doing so well in 2009, and Goose could see that there wasn't a great prospect of winning a place.

So I hope Zac turns out well in the longer term. We heard a lot from Mr Drain last season about what a genius piece of recruiting getting hold of Zac was on his part. Mr Drain has now gone totally silent since another genius piece of recruiting on his part - with lots of input from all his old Bomber mates - didn't turn out quite so wonderfully.

Whether Goose goes good, bad or indifferently won't matter if Sam Fisher gets back soon and Zac gets his act together again.

Otherwise............................

Just maybe Goose wanted to leave so what choice do you have.

[meher baba]

When guys like Maguire, Ball and - perhaps eventually - X go well for other clubs, it eats away at our club's collective morale.

If Maguire keeps going well at the Lions, Fisher stays injured, and Dawson doesn't get his s@#t together soon, the whole thing could become a bit of a problem.

Unlike Ball, I reckon we could have hung onto Goose but for our deciding to go big time with Zac as FB. With the two Sams, Raph and Blake all doing so well in 2009, and Goose could see that there wasn't a great prospect of winning a place.

So I hope Zac turns out well in the longer term. We heard a lot from Mr Drain last season about what a genius piece of recruiting getting hold of Zac was on his part. Mr Drain has now gone totally silent since another genius piece of recruiting on his part - with lots of input from all his old Bomber mates - didn't turn out quite so wonderfully.

Whether Goose goes good, bad or indifferently won't matter if Sam Fisher gets back soon and Zac gets his act together again.

Otherwise............................

Just maybe Goose wanted to leave so what choice do you have.

I'm sure he asked to leave, but wasn't it mainly because he couldn't see a spot for himself in the senior lineup, and didn't Zac (and, to some extent, Raph) represent the key barrier?

I don't think we lifted a finger to try to keep him. Obviously that was partly out of kindness, but who ever built a premiership-winning list out of kindness?

He might be a bit one-paced, but he's tough. So are Ball and (despite his small frame) X.

Are Zac, Armo and the others we are now resting our hopes in going to turn out to be as tough? And if not, are they going to much help to us in winning our second premiership?

[saintlee]

Goose was a good player back in 2004-05.....that was a long time ago...unfortunately he will never be what he once was....

[saintlee]

When guys like Maguire, Ball and - perhaps eventually - X go well for other clubs, it eats away at our club's collective morale.

If Maguire keeps going well at the Lions, Fisher stays injured, and Dawson doesn't get his s@#t together soon, the whole thing could become a bit of a problem.

Unlike Ball, I reckon we could have hung onto Goose but for our deciding to go big time with Zac as FB. With the two Sams, Raph and Blake all doing so well in 2009, and Goose could see that there wasn't a great prospect of winning a place.

So I hope Zac turns out well in the longer term. We heard a lot from Mr Drain last season about what a genius piece of recruiting getting hold of Zac was on his part. Mr Drain has now gone totally silent since another genius piece of recruiting on his part - with lots of input from all his old Bomber mates - didn't turn out quite so wonderfully.

Whether Goose goes good, bad or indifferently won't matter if Sam Fisher gets back soon and Zac gets his act together again.

Otherwise............................

Just maybe Goose wanted to leave so what choice do you have.

I'm sure he asked to leave, but wasn't it mainly because he couldn't see a spot for himself in the senior lineup, and didn't Zac (and, to some extent, Raph) represent the key barrier?

I don't think we lifted a finger to try to keep him. Obviously that was partly out of kindness, but who ever built a premiership-winning list out of kindness?

He might be a bit one-paced, but he's tough. So are Ball and (despite his small frame) X.

Are Zac, Armo and the others we are now resting our hopes in going to turn out to be as tough? And if not, are they going to much help to us in winning our second premiership?

I liked X man, he was skillful and quick, but he was not tough. Very fragile player.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

With Max and Goose gone, it reminds me of the hasty decision to trade/ delist the Wakelins. What followed was a pretty bleak period in defence for us, and I'm not seeing alot of depth there now. Wrong move to trade Goose!

Let go he had all last year to make the side , lets see how many games he gets with Brisbane before we start getting on the "Why did we let Goose go bandwagon "!!

No he didn't. Last year we had a very stable, uninjured side that put up one of the best defensive records in memory. Hudghton and Goose couldn't get a look.

Which for the record, needs to be remembered as the reason that Hudghton has retired and Goose has gone to Brisbane - not because of any lack of judgement on managements part. It's incredibly low percentage to hang onto extra established KPP on the off chance of injury, it just gets in the way of development.

It also ought be remembered that it's Sam Fisher (and maybe Jason Blake) who made Goose expendable, NOT Zac Dawson (who took Hudghton's spot).

I think those writing off Goose are kidding themselves, but time will tell on that. In the meantime, finding a new home for Maguire was not only the right move list-wise, but classy treatment to be proud of to boot.

[meher baba]

I liked X man, he was skillful and quick, but he was not tough. Very fragile player.

X is a player who is not afraid to put his body on the line in contests: that's why I consider him to be tough.

He is certainly injury prone, but a lot of his hamstring injuries have come when he is just running around the field not bumping into anybody.

His ACL injury last season was the sort of unlucky thing that could happen to any player in any game.

If he can get back to the fitness he displayed in 2007, X will be an asset to the Lions.

[meher baba]

With Max and Goose gone, it reminds me of the hasty decision to trade/ delist the Wakelins. What followed was a pretty bleak period in defence for us, and I'm not seeing alot of depth there now. Wrong move to trade Goose!

Let go he had all last year to make the side , lets see how many games he gets with Brisbane before we start getting on the "Why did we let Goose go bandwagon "!!

No he didn't. Last year we had a very stable, uninjured side that put up one of the best defensive records in memory. Maguire and Goose couldn't get a look.

Which for the record, needs to be remembered as the reason that Hudghton has retired and Goose has gone to Brisbane - not because of any lack of judgement on managements part. It's incredibly low percentage to hang onto extra established KPP on the off chance of injury, it just gets in the way of development.

It also ought be remembered that it's Sam Fisher (and maybe Jason Blake) who made Goose expendable, NOT Zac Dawson (who took Hudghton's spot).

I think those writing off Goose are kidding themselves, but time will tell on that. In the meantime, finding a new home for Maguire was not only the right move list-wise, but classy treatment to be proud of to boot.

Yes, if we are completely sure that Zac will remain a permanent fixture: otherwise, a reshuffled backline with Goose might have been a better alternative that what we would otherwise be faced with.

However, I agree with you that you don't clog up your list with second string KPPs (Adam Pattison anyone?).

[thejiggingsaint]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did we not have Wakelin and Hudghton at full back in Season 2000? when we won our last wooden spoon?
Give the Coach and players an opportunity to get it right in the PROPER season before rushing to condemn them

[BAM! (shhhh)]

... Last year we had a very stable, uninjured side that put up one of the best defensive records in memory. Maguire and Goose couldn't get a look.

Which for the record, needs to be remembered as the reason that Hudghton has retired and Goose has gone to Brisbane - not because of any lack of judgement on managements part. It's incredibly low percentage to hang onto extra established KPP on the off chance of injury, it just gets in the way of development.

It also ought be remembered that it's Sam Fisher (and maybe Jason Blake) who made Goose expendable, NOT Zac Dawson (who took Hudghton's spot).

I think those writing off Goose are kidding themselves, but time will tell on that. In the meantime, finding a new home for Maguire was not only the right move list-wise, but classy treatment to be proud of to boot.

Yes, if we are completely sure that Zac will remain a permanent fixture: otherwise, a reshuffled backline with Goose might have been a better alternative that what we would otherwise be faced with.

However, I agree with you that you don't clog up your list with second string KPPs (Adam Pattison anyone?).

Don't know that we need to be that sure, a few things worth remembering:

- Zac plays fullback; Goose has never played there for an extended period of time (at AFL level anyway), so there's no real evidence other than our own skills analysis for saying he could/couldn't have gotten the job done.
- Come round 1, I'm guessing Zac (or anyone at fullback) gets a lot more help than happened in the NAB cup games. Dawson was seeing a lot more spear passes to his guy of the sort that very few have ever been able to handle (Hudghton could, but where Zac beat him out was being more attacking with the ball and more willing to mark). 3rd man up is critical to Saints footy.
- Can't say this enough: Sam Fisher is the guy who holds down the job we thought Goose would do. Jason Blake holds down the job we though Sam Fisher would do... Fisher's knee hurts, but even as a guy who was/is pretty confident that Goose's AFL careers got some big games left in it, Goose wasn't going to fill that hole.

The other thing worth noting about Dawson is his age, when Fisher, Blake, Goose, have all retired, Zac will still be going. Even if he has a horrible year, I would be sticking with Zac.

[Middo]

With Max and Goose gone, it reminds me of the hasty decision to trade/ delist the Wakelins. What followed was a pretty bleak period in defence for us, and I'm not seeing alot of depth there now. Wrong move to trade Goose!

Let go he had all last year to make the side , lets see how many games he gets with Brisbane before we start getting on the "Why did we let Goose go bandwagon "!!

No he didn't. Last year we had a very stable, uninjured side that put up one of the best defensive records in memory. Maguire and Goose couldn't get a look.

Which for the record, needs to be remembered as the reason that Hudghton has retired and Goose has gone to Brisbane - not because of any lack of judgement on managements part. It's incredibly low percentage to hang onto extra established KPP on the off chance of injury, it just gets in the way of development.

It also ought be remembered that it's Sam Fisher (and maybe Jason Blake) who made Goose expendable, NOT Zac Dawson (who took Hudghton's spot).

I think those writing off Goose are kidding themselves, but time will tell on that. In the meantime, finding a new home for Maguire was not only the right move list-wise, but classy treatment to be proud of to boot.

Hmmm Maguire and Goose ??