What really frustrates me

[skeptic]

There's a certain group of players who continously get games and I can't for the life of me understand why.
Raph Clarke (my fav player) is in and out of the team based on his form, the way it should be (and injuries too).

But the following:

Zac "I never learned to punch the ball" Dawson:
I just don't get it. What is his purpose in the team? Almost week after with (with the odd exception like last week) his opponent will out muscle him or the ball will just drop to the feet of the pack for the crumbers to lap up. Seriously, how goals on Sunday would have been prevented if Zac just clobberred the pill forward or through for a behind.
Add to that that he's not damaging and doesn't run a lot either.

Andrew "The Ghost" McQualter:
This is the one that really frustrates me. Armo, Stevens, McEvoy, Raph etc all get dropped for having poor games whereas Andrew has had 16 of them this season. I nick name him the ghost because you never know he's playing until at least after half time when he bobs up for a clanger... like the gettable 3/4 goal he missed.
I would go as far to say that Raph has a more positive effect on the forward line playing off a back flank that mini has had this season in any game.

Michael Gardiner:
Am I the only 1 that thinks he's in a form slump? Haven't seen him contribute much in a while... does he do anything other than the contest? Was sad to see Leon Davis spoil his mark in the backline in the 3rd.

Sean Dempster:
Well there's already a thread about him

Farren Ray:
I asked this in the thread about Peake last week (i know how that sounded), but he ever play well against the trend? A real butter boy IMO.


Finally...
what is with our reluctance to kick the ball long under pressure. I know we like to chip it around and find the right option but seriously put the damn thing on ur boot instead of handballing it to space when there are no options.
Why are we so afraid to take the game on... kick to 1:1 contests etc. Its so irritating to watch

[OneEyedSainter77]

Some good points and some not so good points in your OP.

Kosi is another I would throw into that list. Dawson was not our worst yesterday, in fact he may well have been the only defender apart from Gwilt who diodn't have his pants well and truly pulled down.

Think that was a little harsh on Farren Ray as well.

The rest I simply can't excuse.

We are (once again) having too amny passengers in our games and that is what worries me. If this keeps happening, i struggle to see where we will win our games from...

[skeptic]

IMO

Kosi is trying but is just not good enough... always being beaten... I personally don't fault his endeavor

[bigcarl]

Kosi is trying but is just not good enough... always being beaten... I personally don't fault his endeavor

it's either ruck or sandringham for him.

[bobmurray]

IMO

Kosi is trying but is just not good enough... always being beaten... I personally don't fault his endeavor

probably no longer AFL standard and that's why he continually struggles....

he's not the only one who is finding the going a little too tough.....

a lack of depth is compounding the issues...who is the development coach nowadays and does he work more than an hour a week

[Sainternist]

Dawson, Gardiner and Ray are in our top 22 players. That is why they will continue to be selected.

[Buckets]

IMO

Kosi is trying but is just not good enough... always being beaten... I personally don't fault his endeavor

Does the constant chipping sidewards or back even when we have that one on one contest up forward that actually hurts our forwards? We all know that Roo is a machine when it comes to the ability to run and run and run, but what about Kosi? Just a question.

[fingers]

IMO

Kosi is trying but is just not good enough... always being beaten... I personally don't fault his endeavor

Does the constant chipping sidewards or back even when we have that one on one contest up forward that actually hurts our forwards? We all know that Roo is a machine when it comes to the ability to run and run and run, but what about Kosi? Just a question.

I tihnk this is part of the problem for Kosi. At no time on Sat did we move the ball with purpose and even when obviously beaten we went back and sideways. I get the gameplan but it must frustrate the hell out of Kosi and stops hime doing what he is best at.

[Wrote for Luck]

I disagree with most, in that Kosi for me should be plonked in our forward fifty and told not to go outside that.
In the ruck, imo he does zilch, other than tire himself.
I'm sick of getting smashed in the ruck. Jolly absolutely killed us in the hit outs.
I'm a fan of Mini but bloody hell he was quiet Saturday. Can see Steven potentially challenge him for that role come finals.

[Beno88]

Michael Gardiner:
Am I the only 1 that thinks he's in a form slump? Haven't seen him contribute much in a while... does he do anything other than the contest? Was sad to see Leon Davis spoil his mark in the backline in the 3rd.

Way too harsh. Gardiner has been magnificent this year with not a huge amount of support. I don't think any St.Kilda supporter expected to get this much out of the big fella. Has been our most consistent big man this year by far.

And for the record, that mark was paid against Davis and should have been fifty after Davis kicked the ball away.

[ralphsmith]

Mcqualter has been very disappointing this year.

In the collingwood game he intercepted an absolute sitter, a mark 99% of AFL players would hold 99% of the time but it slipped through his hands. We would have scored something if he'd marked it. But the collingwood player it was intended for whiipped it up anyway.

[jonesy]

It would appear Ray is all at sea on the G. Had a shocking finals campaign there,and wasn't sited until late saturday.

Need him contributing in the finals

[Badlands]

Mcqualter has been very disappointing this year.

In the collingwood game he intercepted an absolute sitter, a mark 99% of AFL players would hold 99% of the time but it slipped through his hands. We would have scored something if he'd marked it. But the collingwood player it was intended for whiipped it up anyway.

Joel Selwood committed an almost identical error on Friday night against the crows. Sadly, that's where the comparisons between Mini and Selwood end.

[rodgerfox]

The issue is (if there even is an issue) that our game plan relies on the stars.

Probably moreso than any other team. Probably.

Certainly moreso than the Saints have seen for a very long time. So when our guns are out of form, getting beaten or not on the park - we are vunerable.

This whole 'roles' thing is rubbish I reckon. I still get the feeling that our coaches have been sucked in to believing their own hype about our 'roles'.

Dal Santo's role isn't what wins us game - it's Dal Santo. We can't lose him and just put in some spud to play his role.

Ditto Baker.

Ditto BJ.

Ditto any of our good players.


I think it's why people scratch their heads at the inclusion of guys like Pattison or Dempster (for example).

I think the coaches believe they're so brilliant in defining these roles that anyone can come in do it. In games like the Geelong one, or the 2nd half of the Brisbane game (and many, many others) - it appears they are correct.
But the actual reality is that these guys can't play these roles to effect. The only time they appear to, is when our guns are playing well.


But as I said, this may not even be an issue. We just need Lenny, Dal, BJ, Roo, Baker, Joey etc. to be fit, in form and on the park in September.

[Moccha]

Even Geelong have copped a few hidings in the last 12 months. All teams are exposed after a loss and they all look crap 12 hrs later

[SainterK]

Did anyone hear Ross interviewed a couple of weeks ago on SEN? He was asked about Gardiner, and how he has been in really good form, and was the club concerned that he may tire and drop off again in September? He said that that was a very fair question, and something that the club was both aware and on top of to ensure he and others peak at the right time.

I have been watching him since, and while I believe he has been fine in the hitouts, he seems to have been resting on the bench an awful lot more, especially on occasions when he may of traditionally have pushed forward?

Maybe it's the whole 'greater good' argument, getting the balance right between match fitness and peaking in September.

Mini is a concern, in the last 3 weeks he has been in our lowest disposal getters on the ground. I understand he missed a preseason, I also understand he is a leader of the club, but perhaps the club needs to give him a rest...he is so important though, and was great against Geelong.

Two games this year I have gone to, and truly felt like we were never in it, Carlton and Collingwood. Personally I don't buy into the hype that they had some kind of magic formula to beat us, because that wasn't St Kilda effort or execution at all.

[samoht]

Regarding our bottom 6 or so fringe players who have been getting regular games - I reckon these regularly favoured 6 can be substituted in part (or maybe in whole) by the rest of our fringe and untried players playing regularly for Sandy.

I can't see the problem with it .. in fact i see a need for it - every one should be kept on their toes and a better structural balance may result.

Maybe try/promote Simpkin (from rookie) on a half forward flank even ?

Lynch should probably get a game soon too.

Our back line is fine .. but we need to improve our midfield run and forward combination and fluency and bring more tackling power in - maybe even Walsh.

Substitute all bottom 6 if needs be in one hit.

[saint75]

Two games this year I have gone to, and truly felt like we were never in it, Carlton and Collingwood. Personally I don't buy into the hype that they had some kind of magic formula to beat us, because that wasn't St Kilda effort or execution at all.

Same here SainterK. Both of those games we didn't 'switch on'. We played in 3rd gear and never looked like lifting. Both games our disposal and execution was at a VFL level.

I don't believe there is a 'magic formula' to beat us. Collingwood and Carlton did not beat us with speed or tactics, they beat us by being more effective with their use of the ball. Just bad days at the office. Other factors play into it, but as some on here think the excuses are not valid, I won't bother using them. Mind you, would like to see a few on here run around for 2+ hours on match day at AFL level with the flu and see how they fare.....

[Badlands]

Two games this year I have gone to, and truly felt like we were never in it, Carlton and Collingwood. Personally I don't buy into the hype that they had some kind of magic formula to beat us, because that wasn't St Kilda effort or execution at all.

Same here SainterK. Both of those games we didn't 'switch on'. We played in 3rd gear and never looked like lifting. Both games our disposal and execution was at a VFL level.

I don't believe there is a 'magic formula' to beat us. Collingwood and Carlton did not beat us with speed or tactics, they beat us by being more effective with their use of the ball. Just bad days at the office. Other factors play into it, but as some on here think the excuses are not valid, I won't bother using them. Mind you, would like to see a few on here run around for 2+ hours on match day at AFL level with the flu and see how they fare.....

Hey Saint75 - has the flu rumour been substantiated?
I've read a few vague references to it but do we know for sure that players were affected? For what it's worth i do agree with the sentiments of your post though.

[saint75]

Yes, Ross mentioned it on a radio interview just prior to the Brisbane game. He said a few of theh players had come down with it (he mentioned 6 or so I believe from memory).

He missed the open training session on the second week of the school holidays and arrived not long after it had finished. He came through the shop area of Saintland and he said a quick hello to the staff and supporters in the shop area when he came in and he sounded terrible. Also sounded terrible a day or so later in a radio interview (same interview as mentioned above) where he coughed and apologised for it throughout the entire interview. Unless he is a good actor, I saw and heard first hand that he had a cold/flu/virus/whatever.....

No doubt it would have spread to a few players. Bit hard to isolate the coach from the playing group for a week or 3. These blasted viruses going around tend to last much longer than your average head cold.

[Milan Faletic]

Dawson, Gardiner and Ray are in our top 22 players. That is why they will continue to be selected.

Agree 100%.

Dawson is part of the defensive unit, which is now missing Baker and dare I say it, Raph.

Gardiner and Ray are obvious choices for me. Ray has had a very good season. Sure his GF last year wasn't his best and he didn't fire on Sat but IMO he is a required player.

Dempster and Pattison are definitely questionable selections and I love Mini but his form has dropped and it may be time to blood someone else before the Finals.

Baker's suspension has forced Peake in to the back pocket whereas I reckon he is better running in to Forward 50 and having a couple of long range shots. Grammy will get better.

Enough said about Kosi. I'm at a loss for words with him.

[plugger66]

Regarding our bottom 6 or so fringe players who have been getting regular games - I reckon these regularly favoured 6 can be substituted in part (or maybe in whole) by the rest of our fringe and untried players playing regularly for Sandy.

I can't see the problem with it .. in fact i see a need for it - every one should be kept on their toes and a better structural balance may result.

Maybe try/promote Simpkin (from rookie) on a half forward flank even ?

Lynch should probably get a game soon too.

Our back line is fine .. but we need to improve our midfield run and forward combination and fluency and bring more tackling power in - maybe even Walsh.

Substitute all bottom 6 if needs be in one hit.

Yep lets make 6 changes and put 6 in from Sandy who have won one of their last 9. There must be players in superb form there if they cant win at a much lowere standard. Or maybe you are like RF who thinks anyone can play in the bottom 6 apparently even him.

[samoht]

Regarding our bottom 6 or so fringe players who have been getting regular games - I reckon these regularly favoured 6 can be substituted in part (or maybe in whole) by the rest of our fringe and untried players playing regularly for Sandy.

I can't see the problem with it .. in fact i see a need for it - every one should be kept on their toes and a better structural balance may result.

Maybe try/promote Simpkin (from rookie) on a half forward flank even ?

Lynch should probably get a game soon too.

Our back line is fine .. but we need to improve our midfield run and forward combination and fluency and bring more tackling power in - maybe even Walsh.

Substitute all bottom 6 if needs be in one hit.

Yep lets make 6 changes and put 6 in from Sandy who have won one of their last 9. There must be players in superb form there if they cant win at a much lowere standard. Or maybe you are like RF who thinks anyone can play in the bottom 6 apparently even him.

I exaggerated to make a point - I doubt if that 6 changes in one hit will ever happen (there's a couple of rookies there too don't forget) but the point is we should be looking wider and we probably won't do worse than constantly defaulting to Dempster etc.. ... whilst Lynch for instance gets constantly overlooked.
I don't want our bottom 6 to feel too comfortable - that 10 possessions will cut it or that they can drop off their tackle count etc..
Let's take the blinkers off - our forward line needs improving... I'm expecting come the finals we will be again over relying on Roo - and that's not good enough.
Having 3-4 small forwards .. that are not exceptionally quick may be the wrong forward structure.

[SainterK]

Of course our forward line needs to put in a better effort, but what happened to the 5+ non traditional forwards that have been contributing to the scoreboard in the last few weeks?

Collingwood's traditional forwards kicked 5 goals between them, but it was complimented by Macaffer, Sidebottom, Ball, Shaw, Beams all hitting the scoreboard.

Our traditional forwards kicked 5 goals between them, but we only had one non-forward kick a goal, Geary.

We can criticise the forwards, but the reality is against the better sides they are going to be assigned defenders to limit their output.

This was the most dissapointing aspect for mine, giving that I thought it was an area we had greatly improved in.

A good spread of individual goalkickers is SO important.

[plugger66]

Regarding our bottom 6 or so fringe players who have been getting regular games - I reckon these regularly favoured 6 can be substituted in part (or maybe in whole) by the rest of our fringe and untried players playing regularly for Sandy.

I can't see the problem with it .. in fact i see a need for it - every one should be kept on their toes and a better structural balance may result.

Maybe try/promote Simpkin (from rookie) on a half forward flank even ?

Lynch should probably get a game soon too.

Our back line is fine .. but we need to improve our midfield run and forward combination and fluency and bring more tackling power in - maybe even Walsh.

Substitute all bottom 6 if needs be in one hit.

Yep lets make 6 changes and put 6 in from Sandy who have won one of their last 9. There must be players in superb form there if they cant win at a much lowere standard. Or maybe you are like RF who thinks anyone can play in the bottom 6 apparently even him.

I exaggerated to make a point - I doubt if that 6 changes in one hit will ever happen (there's a couple of rookies there too don't forget) but the point is we should be looking wider and we probably won't do worse than constantly defaulting to Dempster etc.. ... whilst Lynch for instance gets constantly overlooked.
I don't want our bottom 6 to feel too comfortable - that 10 possessions will cut it or that they can drop off their tackle count etc..
Let's take the blinkers off - our forward line needs improving... I'm expecting come the finals we will be again over relying on Roo - and that's not good enough.
Having 3-4 small forwards .. that are not exceptionally quick may be the wrong forward structure.

That may or may not be the case regarding the small forwards but we have gone for it for nearly 2 years now and I dont see any changes after one loss. Also 3 genuine talls in the forward line will not work. If we had a medium making forward who could also tackle i am sure he would have played by now. i dont see any major changes. Just the usual number 21 and 22 to out for maybe a 23 or 24 player.