different structure for 2011

[nobhead]

one true ruckmen , kosi , macca, gardi
backup mobile ruck blake
bring in extra mid geary, armo , steven
miles as a backman
gilbo permant forward
stanley at ff
imo gives us a few more options ,another marking forward in gilbo.
and gives a bit more leg speed around the ground .
just thinking out loud any thoughts?

[saintsRrising]

any thoughts?

See here http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... hp?t=66520

[nobhead]

any thoughts?

See here http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... hp?t=66520

sorry i missed that one

[Solar]

if your looking at a back up ruck that is just athletic then stanley must be a chance. If this is the way we go forward and gards goes around again then perhaps patto should go.

This could also be blakes role for 2011, the 4th man so to speak. Play one of gards/kosi/benny and swap blake for them after half time?

Like the idea of gilbert forward. Look for raph, simpkin and walsh to get game time to push into that back six. Gwilt is the type of defender we need to develop. Strong ovr the ball, good disposal and mobile.

Rotate 16+ players through the midfield. Outside of roo all our forwards need to be able to rotate on the ball. Thus a forward line of stanley, milne, schneider, steven, gilbert and heyne is a nice selection. Rest dal, joey forward.

Develop more clearance winners. Expect these clearance winners to play forward. Thus I would push armo, steven through there.

Speed and spread offensively is a must and kicking skills need to be a priority in this up-coming draft. Get winmars body right to play midfield within 2 years.

[bigred]

I can't see Stanley playing Ruck.

I really can't see him getting the body for it. Or is it just me?

I wonder how much you could build his tank without ruining his speed.

[jroberts:)]

one true ruckmen , kosi , macca, gardi
backup mobile ruck blake
bring in extra mid geary, armo , steven
miles as a backman
gilbo permant forward
stanley at ff
imo gives us a few more options ,another marking forward in gilbo.
and gives a bit more leg speed around the ground .
just thinking out loud any thoughts?

Great!! I like the sound of that!!!

[FQF]

I can't see Stanley playing Ruck.

I really can't see him getting the body for it. Or is it just me?

I wonder how much you could build his tank without ruining his speed.

Yeh, it would be a fine line.

Enter Misson.

[dcstkfc]

Rotate 16+ players through the midfield. Outside of roo all our forwards need to be able to rotate on the ball. Thus a forward line of stanley, milne, schneider, steven, gilbert and heyne is a nice selection. Rest dal, joey forward.

Nice plan.

But 16.

Can you name them?

[Teflon]

one true ruckmen , kosi , macca, gardi
backup mobile ruck blake
bring in extra mid geary, armo , steven
miles as a backman
gilbo permant forward
stanley at ff
imo gives us a few more options ,another marking forward in gilbo.
and gives a bit more leg speed around the ground .
just thinking out loud any thoughts?

Good call I agree its the flexibility we need altered.

Kosi/Blake must ruck more.
Midfield simply needs more depth - Aarmo/Steven/Geary
Miles is very important - can add some real zip to defence and release Gilbert fwd (kicking has to improve). Miles also gives us a good option for smaller fwds.....

Goddard should also be restricted to midfield/fwd duties.....we need his polish up front.
I also would like improve fwd line small pace

[saint3d]

I like Stanley at full forward.

Or Gilbert?

[mad saint guy]

I think Blake is too valuable as a defender to regularly use him as a backup ruck. Though at the same time, none of our rucks are fit/strong enough to ruck all day and no other capable backup seems to contribute enough around the ground to warrant selection. If Kosi can get his 2009 form back as a forward and kick 45 goals as a forward/backup ruck then we've got no problems. If his 2010 form continues then he's a liability in the forward line and we need to look elsewhere. McEvoy will suffer because of this new substitute rule; unless he has a huge pre season and builds up to be the number one ruckman then I can't see him as a regular in 2011.

Ruck combos consisting of one primary ruckman and a mobile KPP who can pinch hit will become the norm next year. Stanley would be the ideal second man but I doubt he'd be AFL ready by then.

[Solar]

Rotate 16+ players through the midfield. Outside of roo all our forwards need to be able to rotate on the ball. Thus a forward line of stanley, milne, schneider, steven, gilbert and heyne is a nice selection. Rest dal, joey forward.

Nice plan.

But 16.

Can you name them?

Develop this. Hence why the likes of gilbert forward, raph onto a wing half back, playing the likes of steven, armo, smith etc. all through the midfield. Play lock down on one player with CJ and then rotate the rest.

I'll have a shot at that 16 (in no order)

Hayes
Goddard
dal
CJ
joey
ray
armo
steven
gram
smith (small back)
clarke (half back)
gilbert (half forward)
milne
schneider
peake
stanley/miles

thats 16 off my head. Currently we have two defensive forwards (eddy an mini) a small back (baker), 2 lumbering ruckman/fowards (kosi, macca) and 2 - 3 key backs (chips, zac,blake) who all currently are not part of our midfield rotation. They do their jobs to certain levels but because they don't add to out midfield in 2010 we had many games where our stoppages got distroyed!

I would be looking for midfielders in the trades and draft. Especially with the new bench rule it will be harder to have one dimensional players.

[bigcarl]

one true ruckmen , kosi , macca, gardi
backup mobile ruck blake
bring in extra mid geary, armo , steven
miles as a backman
gilbo permant forward
stanley at ff
imo gives us a few more options ,another marking forward in gilbo.
and gives a bit more leg speed around the ground .
just thinking out loud any thoughts?

Good call I agree its the flexibility we need altered.

Kosi/Blake must ruck more.
Midfield simply needs more depth - Aarmo/Steven/Geary
Miles is very important - can add some real zip to defence and release Gilbert fwd (kicking has to improve). Miles also gives us a good option for smaller fwds.....

Goddard should also be restricted to midfield/fwd duties.....we need his polish up front.
I also would like improve fwd line small pace

Yep, I like it.

Don't envy Ross as he is going to have to make some tough calls that will upset the pecking order and put noses out of joint. But it's got to be done.

IMO while defence will always be a priority, he's also going to have to tweak the gameplan substantially to give a greater emphasis on attack and kicking a winning score.

Under pressure we revert to excessive numbers behind the ball. There's no point in having good forwards if they are all on the had back line. Also, we have too many players whose role seems only to negate.

To add to the names suggested above, Walsh may be a smokey to play forward. He's a big strong unit, quick and knows how to use his body. Contrary to what you might think, he's a thumping kick. Also a very driven character from what I've heard.

[Con Gorozidis]

I like Rooey at FF and Stanley as a roaming CHF.

Time for Rooey to be the hustler bustler type. Playing FF still means u need a big body and have to be able to wrestle Gorrilas. Stanley cant do that yet .So let the kid run free like the Giraffe he is.

Its not right chucking Stenly deep in the forward line and letting big bodied backman just shunt him under the ball all day. No way to teach a kid footy. Players usually go to FF later in their careers. Heck even Plugger didnt start at FF. Young players have a long history of getting destroyed at FF.
So I dont know why people on here want to force Stanley to FF so early in his career?

I like Miles down Back for sure.

I like A Smith as an extra mid. I have a good feeling about him.

But I think we need an extra 4 mids to be honest. We are too immobile. So Id play A Smith, Armo and Geary And Steven.

[gringo]

I think you see more of a press and less of the tagging role. I would think they might use CJ for a bit more of the in and under work.

Teams will need to counter a fast run and spread while attacking quickly themselves. I would expect some more depth through some of the young guys getting more game time.

[SainterK]

I just want Roo running at the ball from inside 50, not running to the ball from outside 50.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

I think Blake is too valuable as a defender to regularly use him as a backup ruck. Though at the same time, none of our rucks are fit/strong enough to ruck all day and no other capable backup seems to contribute enough around the ground to warrant selection. If Kosi can get his 2009 form back as a forward and kick 45 goals as a forward/backup ruck then we've got no problems. If his 2010 form continues then he's a liability in the forward line and we need to look elsewhere. McEvoy will suffer because of this new substitute rule; unless he has a huge pre season and builds up to be the number one ruckman then I can't see him as a regular in 2011.

Ruck combos consisting of one primary ruckman and a mobile KPP who can pinch hit will become the norm next year. Stanley would be the ideal second man but I doubt he'd be AFL ready by then.

As far as balance goes, I 100% agree.

Been saying for a while now, any limitation of interchanges is a blow to the full time ruckman, and specialists in general. The main effect of reducing the availability of substitutions is to enhance the value of endurance.

IMO, the more I think about this, the more I think it's going to be good for the Saints - and other mature teams - who already work endurance and grind into their strategy. The Saints tend to win their 4th quarters... well, the 4th quarter should start earlier.

Specifying the ruck, it will be interesting - a Gardiner or a McEvoy is certainly going to be a dedicated ruck. They don't really have the wheels or endurance to rotate. However, teh Saints have a wealth of part time type ruckmen. Blake and Kosi (yes, Kosi) being able to take up part time duties becomes huge... and Stanley around the corner... a 200CM speed demon? Yes please...

[goods]

there is an argument that if your getting fewer and fewer inside 50's because your playing all your guys in one half of the ground why have the MVP of the league at FF or HF? He should be HB :S Its sort of a flawed theory because the idea is to keep your ball inside the forward 50. Ross's defense works perfectly when the balls in the forward 50 but it does not get there enough!

[awesome_days]

Definately agreeing with the ruck situation as posted earlier. Needs to be a 75% #1 and 25% backup type role.

The saints have a few options with this:
1) Gardiner / McEvoy combo - McEvoy / Gardiner share ruck and KPF duties. Lose a midfield/bench rotation.

2) Gardiner / Kosi / Blake - Same set up af GF1. If Kosi plays like this year a lot of people will be pulling out their hair on this forum. Big ? is can Gardiner play 75% TOG.

3) McEvoy / Kosi / Stanley - All can play KPF and can probably share ruck duties a little more evenly. I would like to see this option used early in the season and "save" Gardiner as backup.

The above ties into our forward structure. Would love to see a big evolution of the forward line, with more speed injected and less defensive attitude.

Probably need to get 4-6 players in that weren't in the GF teams this year. I would be happy with a swim or sink approach, bringing the vets back in if the kids dont perform.

Would like to line up something similar to:

B: Miles Dawson Clarke
HB: Fisher Blake Gwilt
C: Gram Hayes Montagna
HF: Gilbert Kosi Goddard
F: Schneider Riewoldt Steven
R: McEvoy Dal Santo Armitage
I: Jones Lynch Stanley Geary

Emgergencies
(Vets) Baker, Milne, Gardiner, Eddy Dempster, McQualter
(Kids) Walsh, Smith, Winmar, Simpkins

[MadSaintFan]

Fairly obvious from the Post-GF press conferance Ross will give our 20-24yo's every chance next year. I'd expect Rd1:

FB: Miles Dawson Blake
HB: Gwilt Fisher R.Clarke
C: Montagna Hayes Steven
HF: Gilbert Riewoldt Gram
FF: Milne Stanley Schnieder
R: McEvoy Dal Santo Goddard
I/C: Geary Armitage Koschitzke Jones
Emg: Lynch Baker etc.

[FortiusQuoFidelius]

Fairly obvious from the Post-GF press conferance Ross will give our 20-24yo's every chance next year. I'd expect Rd1:

FB: Miles Dawson Blake
HB: Gwilt Fisher R.Clarke
C: Montagna Hayes Steven
HF: Gilbert Riewoldt Gram
FF: Milne Stanley Schnieder
R: McEvoy Dal Santo Goddard
I/C: Geary Armitage Koschitzke Jones
Emg: Lynch Baker etc.

hmmm... no Ray????