GT: St Kilda players feeling sorry for themselves

[bigcarl]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/v ... 6037538838

ST KILDA players feel sorry for themselves and are locked in a victim mentality.
Former coach Grant Thomas says the side's humiliating 52-point loss against Essendon on Sunday shows the club needs an emotional overhaul and players are clearly haunted by the premiership losses as well as off-field controversies.

"I think they're feeling very, very sorry for themselves," Thomas said yesterday.

With just two points from three matches and the bye this weekend, Thomas said St Kilda's form slump was all mental and must be acknowledged and redressed.

"It's got nothing to do with personnel, it's got nothing to do with strategy or tactics or game plans, it's got nothing at all to do with skill and ability, it is completely mental," he said.


etc

[saintspremiers]

He also said the players hate going to Seaford for training.

F. You Topsy!

[matrix]

i think he could actually be right!

[plugger66]

Sounds very much correct to me. Wakelin and GT probably can see what most of us are now seeing.

[Johnny Member]

"Morale and spirit are at their highest when people believe that something is worthwhile achieving and they have the ability to achieve it."


This is the part that is most important.

Goddard's deflated response after the Draw in GF1 makes me think that the second part of the quote above is the issue.

He said immediately after the game when interviewed, something along the lines of "we gave it absolutely everything we had, and once again it just wasn't good enough".

It was spoken with a sense of resignation. Resignation that he no longer believed they had what it took to actually win the flag.


After 2 GF losses, I can understand the feeling of 'why bother? we're just going to come up short again anyway'.


I strongly doubt they no longer believe the reward is worthwhile. I reckon they are (perhaps subconsciously) finding it hard to put in what's required as they've done that for 4 years and still came up short.


The question is, can someone or something change that mindset?


Personally, I believe altering things on-field is required. A change is as good as a holiday, and moving Roo to an on-ball or a '3rd man up' defender role for a month or so may be the type of on-field change that's required to refresh the team.

That, in addition to some soul searching may just turn things around.

[SaintPav]

"Morale and spirit are at their highest when people believe that something is worthwhile achieving and they have the ability to achieve it."


This is the part that is most important.

Goddard's deflated response after the Draw in GF1 makes me think that the second part of the quote above is the issue.

He said immediately after the game when interviewed, something along the lines of "we gave it absolutely everything we had, and once again it just wasn't good enough".

It was spoken with a sense of resignation. Resignation that he no longer believed they had what it took to actually win the flag.


After 2 GF losses, I can understand the feeling of 'why bother? we're just going to come up short again anyway'.


I strongly doubt they no longer believe the reward is worthwhile. I reckon they are (perhaps subconsciously) finding it hard to put in what's required as they've done that for 4 years and still came up short.


The question is, can someone or something change that mindset?


Personally, I believe altering things on-field is required. A change is as good as a holiday, and moving Roo to an on-ball or a '3rd man up' defender role for a month or so may be the type of on-field change that's required to refresh the team.

That, in addition to some soul searching may just turn things around.

I remember it differently and I can't remember him saying it like that...You're taking what he said out of context.

Don't put quotation marks around what you think someone said then attribute it to that person.

GT also when on to say that we would make the eight....fool.

[gringo]

Hey I thought that we should have kept going with GT, but he wasn't tactics personified was he. If you had something other than kick it to your forwards and hope they score, you may have more credibility. The biggest failing of the Saints this year has been when we expose our backline by changing up our attack. I wouldn't be surprised if Lyon is showing the team the importance of playing as a unit by exposing them to the consequence of not playing team defence. We need to find a way to get some forward pressure back, I hope Mini has got some motivation to look more damaging and plays like he did in 09 because at the moment, our forwards are as flat as a tack- 1 forward 50 tackle against Essendon. Or bring in Big Willy Johnson!

[samoht]

I reckon .. it's not just mental and it has a lot to do with personnel - our forwards.

The backline has been carrying the side for too long - the forwards (apart from not kicking enough goals) don't put enough forward pressure in our forward line - when the ball hits the deck eight times out of ten it comes out again under little pressure and sets up another easy build up for the opposition.
That's the most disappointing part.

The result is
- our backline has to deal with another entry that could and should have otherwise been prevented.

So our jaded backline just can't hold sides to 8 goals anymore to make up for the incompetence of our forwards. They don't just have the opposition forwards to worry about - they have to deal with our forwards too, and it's taking its toll !

[SydneySainter]

Although i think GT can be a real media whore, his summary is pretty good

[markp]

"It's got nothing to do with personnel, it's got nothing to do with strategy or tactics or game plans, it's got nothing at all to do with skill and ability, it is completely mental"

Our belief cloud has evaporated?

What bollocks.

[SainterK]

Here is the entire article

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/Blog.aspx?blogid=4088

[Johnny Member]

I agree to a point.

We've certainly dropped off mentally. Some would say that cracks are appearing.

Body language, discipline on-field and off, and on-field effort clearly shows we're not 100% mentally switched on.


Whether that is solely the reason for us being winless and so insipid last week, I'm not sure. But I firmly believe it's a big part of it.

[SainterK]

Well, silly as it sounds, at least it is what it is.

Would you rather we'd been like say the Dogs, and a couple of flat track bully performances and we'd have been wallpapering over the cracks?

Someone should show the boys the footy OTC of when in 2009, they first discsussed this amazing 'forward pressure' that the Saints had introduced to the game. Showed footage of the boys playing against the Cats and the Dogs, and I'd even almost forgotten how switched on our guys were back then.

[joffaboy]

I agree to a point.

We've certainly dropped off mentally. Some would say that cracks are appearing.

Body language, discipline on-field and off, and on-field effort clearly shows we're not 100% mentally switched on.


Whether that is solely the reason for us being winless and so insipid last week, I'm not sure. But I firmly believe it's a big part of it.

Dont know how you could not think it is a part of it.

Thomas is paid to comment, and I think his comments are obvious for all to see.

They aren't really earth shattering in their controversy.

[markp]

I think his comments are obvious for all to see.

Disagree.

Of course it's likely going to be part of the problem.

He's saying it's the entire problem, full stop. Nothing else is contributing.

I say it's probably a mix of all things he lists as having 'nothing' to do with it, plus the mental side.

[Johnny Member]

I agree to a point.

We've certainly dropped off mentally. Some would say that cracks are appearing.

Body language, discipline on-field and off, and on-field effort clearly shows we're not 100% mentally switched on.


Whether that is solely the reason for us being winless and so insipid last week, I'm not sure. But I firmly believe it's a big part of it.

Dont know how you could not think it is a part of it.

Thomas is paid to comment, and I think his comments are obvious for all to see.

They aren't really earth shattering in their controversy.

I was responding to Markp's post.

[joffaboy]

I agree to a point.

We've certainly dropped off mentally. Some would say that cracks are appearing.

Body language, discipline on-field and off, and on-field effort clearly shows we're not 100% mentally switched on.


Whether that is solely the reason for us being winless and so insipid last week, I'm not sure. But I firmly believe it's a big part of it.

Dont know how you could not think it is a part of it.

Thomas is paid to comment, and I think his comments are obvious for all to see.

They aren't really earth shattering in their controversy.

I was responding to Markp's post.

I was agreeing with your post.

[Johnny Member]

I agree to a point.

We've certainly dropped off mentally. Some would say that cracks are appearing.

Body language, discipline on-field and off, and on-field effort clearly shows we're not 100% mentally switched on.


Whether that is solely the reason for us being winless and so insipid last week, I'm not sure. But I firmly believe it's a big part of it.

Dont know how you could not think it is a part of it.

Thomas is paid to comment, and I think his comments are obvious for all to see.

They aren't really earth shattering in their controversy.

I was responding to Markp's post.

I was agreeing with your post.

Ok then.

[bigred]

GT Prepping for the triumphant return?

[thejiggingsaint]

In that case lets get Butterss and Waldron back too!!!!!!

[Dr Spaceman]

Keeping players switched on after successive Grand Final losses is something GT never had to deal with himself

[Con Gorozidis]

Remember it took 3-4 years to create a belief system with its own systems and totems. "saints footy", "the bubble".

if that whole system is now being questioned thats a big crash in the players entire belief system and world view.

we need some serious shrink action.

[Ice Wolf]

Players just need a treatment of "Harden the f*** Up"

Sometimes things don't work out through no fault of your own, a bad bounce, a toe poke, an umpire swallowing his whistle, sometimes s*** just doesn't go your way, doesn't mean you weren't/aren't good enough.

Premierships are difficult to win and a lot of the time luck can come into it.

What matters is putting yourself in the position to take advantage of that luck if it comes your way.

[Thinline]

Keeping players switched on after successive Grand Final losses is something GT never had to deal with himself

Exactly.

Heard a story the other day about a bloke who lunched with GT at Vlados, shared a few sherbets with him, eventually, when the booze kicked in, they got talking about THAT season and THAT prelim v Port Adelaide. Question was asked of GT 'You had a great side that year, could have won it given how Brisbane were travelling, but you just could implement a Plan B to stop the rot when Port charged. What was the thinking?"

Thomas said: "Listen, mate. Anyone who reckons anyone's got a Plan B is a f***** idiot. There is no Plan B's. Never was.'

I vote for true.

[Johnny Member]

Keeping players switched on after successive Grand Final losses is something GT never had to deal with himself

Exactly.

Heard a story the other day about a bloke who lunched with GT at Vlados, shared a few sherbets with him, eventually, when the booze kicked in, they got talking about THAT season and THAT prelim v Port Adelaide. Question was asked of GT 'You had a great side that year, could have won it given how Brisbane were travelling, but you just could implement a Plan B to stop the rot when Port charged. What was the thinking?"

Thomas said: "Listen, mate. Anyone who reckons anyone's got a Plan B is a f***** idiot. There is no Plan B's. Never was.'

I vote for true.

Paul Roos and Leigh Matthews believe the same thing. As does Mark Thompson.