The centre square set up

[Saints43]

I understand that we like to maintain match-ups that are working around the ground with as little disruption as possible. It makes sense.

But, do we let opposition coaches decide on our centre square set up too often?

How many centre square contests contained Dempster, Polo and one other last night? Jack Steven barely went in there til nearly the end of the third quarter. Dempster and (perhaps) Polo are doing their jobs well but surely we would want a better mix of clearance & purely defensive players in there?

I understand we were getting beaten in the ruck last night but this is a weekly issue - just magnified last night.

[meher baba]

As I've said before, this is just Lyon's style: he is focused to the point of near-obsession with having certain players (CJ, Dempster, sometimes Ray and Baker, and now Polo it would seem) play "run with" roles against dangerous opponents. Even in the centre square! It's why a player like Armo, who seems to me to be a pretty dangerous sort of guy in the centre square can't cut it as an on-baller at the Saints.

While I can't speak for Lyon, I would guess that his main defence would be that his system seems to work pretty well.

[bigcarl]

I understand that we like to maintain match-ups that are working around the ground with as little disruption as possible. It makes sense.

But, do we let opposition coaches decide on our centre square set up too often?

How many centre square contests contained Dempster, Polo and one other last night? Jack Steven barely went in there til nearly the end of the third quarter. Dempster and (perhaps) Polo are doing their jobs well but surely we would want a better mix of clearance & purely defensive players in there?

I understand we were getting beaten in the ruck last night but this is a weekly issue - just magnified last night.

Good point. Steven's our best clearance player atm and should be in the guts regardless of match-ups. Make them match up on him.

[plugger66]

I understand that we like to maintain match-ups that are working around the ground with as little disruption as possible. It makes sense.

But, do we let opposition coaches decide on our centre square set up too often?

How many centre square contests contained Dempster, Polo and one other last night? Jack Steven barely went in there til nearly the end of the third quarter. Dempster and (perhaps) Polo are doing their jobs well but surely we would want a better mix of clearance & purely defensive players in there?

I understand we were getting beaten in the ruck last night but this is a weekly issue - just magnified last night.

Good point. Steven's our best clearance player atm and should be in the guts regardless of match-ups. Make them match up on him.

Even if by having the set up we had we beat a top 5 side and kick the first 7 goals. I suggest that the set up worked perfectly.

[bigcarl]

I understand that we like to maintain match-ups that are working around the ground with as little disruption as possible. It makes sense.

But, do we let opposition coaches decide on our centre square set up too often?

How many centre square contests contained Dempster, Polo and one other last night? Jack Steven barely went in there til nearly the end of the third quarter. Dempster and (perhaps) Polo are doing their jobs well but surely we would want a better mix of clearance & purely defensive players in there?

I understand we were getting beaten in the ruck last night but this is a weekly issue - just magnified last night.

Good point. Steven's our best clearance player atm and should be in the guts regardless of match-ups. Make them match up on him.

Even if by having the set up we had we beat a top 5 side and kick the first 7 goals. I suggest that the set up worked perfectly.

It worked well ... bar the second and third quarter ... so 50 per cent of the time.

I just object to being dictated to by opposition tactics. Why should they decide the make up of our midfield?

I repeat. Steven is our best clearance mid atm and should be playing that role, regardless of match ups.

[plugger66]

I understand that we like to maintain match-ups that are working around the ground with as little disruption as possible. It makes sense.

But, do we let opposition coaches decide on our centre square set up too often?

How many centre square contests contained Dempster, Polo and one other last night? Jack Steven barely went in there til nearly the end of the third quarter. Dempster and (perhaps) Polo are doing their jobs well but surely we would want a better mix of clearance & purely defensive players in there?

I understand we were getting beaten in the ruck last night but this is a weekly issue - just magnified last night.

Good point. Steven's our best clearance player atm and should be in the guts regardless of match-ups. Make them match up on him.

Even if by having the set up we had we beat a top 5 side and kick the first 7 goals. I suggest that the set up worked perfectly.

It worked well ... bar the second and third quarter ... so 50 per cent of the time.

I just object to being dictated to by opposition tactics. Why should they decide the make up of our midfield?

I repeat. Steven is our best clearance mid atm and should be playing that role, regardless of match ups.

I think that RL thought their rucks would dominate, which they did, and was worried that their clearance players would get on top. What he did worked perfectly because we beat a top 5 side for the first time this year. One of the best things RL does is he coaches week by week with matchups and this week he decided to have stoppers in the middle more usual. Turned out to be a great move.

[gringo]

I think steven had his first real game tagged -he had a player with him every time he went near it last night. We managed to get others to step up and take some of the clearances for him. He didn't have as much freedom to do his thing as he was wrapped up as soon as he touched the ball.

[Saints43]

I think that RL thought their rucks would dominate, which they did, and was worried that their clearance players would get on top. What he did worked perfectly because we beat a top 5 side for the first time this year. One of the best things RL does is he coaches week by week with matchups and this week he decided to have stoppers in the middle more usual. Turned out to be a great move.

The issue of the WC rucks dominating last night was mentioned in the OP as a reason that we may have had a more defensive set up last night. Already thought of.

The thread isn't even specifically about last nights game.

It's about whether our centre square set ups are generally dictated by other coaches. That's what I'm asking. Not whether we won the first quarter last night.

How many discussions do you ruin with your uncomprehending, simplistic and argumentative posting? Just an absolute drongo.

[plugger66]

I think that RL thought their rucks would dominate, which they did, and was worried that their clearance players would get on top. What he did worked perfectly because we beat a top 5 side for the first time this year. One of the best things RL does is he coaches week by week with matchups and this week he decided to have stoppers in the middle more usual. Turned out to be a great move.

The issue of the WC rucks dominating last night was mentioned in the OP as a reason that we may have had a more defensive set up last night. Already thought of.

The thread isn't even specifically about last nights game.

It's about whether our centre square set ups are generally dictated by other coaches. That's what I'm asking. Not whether we won the first quarter last night.

You are too thick to understand how many threads you ruin with your uncomprehending, simplistic and argumentative posting. Just an absolute drongo.

What are you on. i am allowed an opinion like you are. Obviously your lack of footy knowledge limits your opinion. I have not had a go at what you wrote. I have not tried to hijack this thread in any way. My opinion is that RL doesnt let opposition teams get dictated by other coaches. he works out weekly who is dangerous and then set up around that. Obviously they have very dangerous players as they in the top 5. Somehow i reckon Worsfold looked at our dangerous players as well or do think coaches are all brain dead like your good self.

[Saints43]

My opinion is that RL doesnt let opposition teams get dictated by other coaches. he works out weekly who is dangerous and then set up around that. Obviously they have very dangerous players as they in the top 5. Somehow i reckon Worsfold looked at our dangerous players as well.

So RL works out who is dangerous and assigns defensive players to them... Thanks for that insight into football. Really helping improve my knowledge of the game. Much appreciated.

And then if the opponents of the players he has assigned defensive roles to go into the centre square then our players follow. The matchups don't change even if it means that we reduce ourselves to one player who is even likely to get a clearence.

Wouldn't that suggest that our set ups are reactive to what other coaches do?

And as you keep going back to last night - even though I've stated twice now that it's a general question...

Worsfold may have looked at our dangerous clearence players. But what is the relevance of that? Dal Santo and Jack Steven virtually didn't go into the centre square until late into the third quarter. When we were behind.

[Saintgaz]

There was an article on AFL's website about each team's best four at centre clearances this season. Ours according to Champion Data are St Kilda: Ben McEvoy, David Armitage, Clinton Jones, Jack Steven.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx

Which is interesting considering who are best mid's are: Monty, Dal, Goddard. Hayes would have been in this group except for his injury.

[spert]

West Coast dominate the rucks and can't manage 10 goals with a supposed powerhouse of a forward line..job done Saints..next please

[Saints43]

West Coast dominate the rucks and can't manage 10 goals with a supposed powerhouse of a forward line..job done Saints..next please

Sigh...

[plugger66]

My opinion is that RL doesnt let opposition teams get dictated by other coaches. he works out weekly who is dangerous and then set up around that. Obviously they have very dangerous players as they in the top 5. Somehow i reckon Worsfold looked at our dangerous players as well.

So RL works out who is dangerous and assigns defensive players to them... Thanks for that insight into football. Really helping improve my knowledge of the game. Much appreciated.

And then if the opponents of the players he has assigned defensive roles to go into the centre square then our players follow. The matchups don't change even if it means that we reduce ourselves to one player who is even likely to get a clearence.

Wouldn't that suggest that our set ups are reactive to what other coaches do?

And as you keep going back to last night - even though I've stated twice now that it's a general question...

Worsfold may have looked at our dangerous clearence players. But what is the relevance of that? Dal Santo and Jack Steven virtually didn't go into the centre square until late into the third quarter. When we were behind.

Well obviously RL thought that last night we needed to tag or run with more. As you pointed out Steven and Dal werent in there as much so this suggests they are usually in there which also suggests he doesnt always react to other coaches. Surely isnt to hard to understand. We do not always react to other coaches IMO otherwise Steven and Dal wouldnt be in the middle like they usually are. The point of mentioning Worsfold is that all coaches do what RL does otherwise they wouldnt begetting a gig at senior level. Really a grade 6 kid could understand that sometimes the side to be reactive and sometimes proactice. it seems that you think RL is mainly reactive. Sorry but i disagree. Is that OK.

[Saints43]

Really a grade 6 kid could understand that sometimes the side to be reactive and sometimes proactice. it seems that you think RL is mainly reactive. Sorry but i disagree. Is that OK.

So you think that generally there is a good mix of proactive and reactive centre square set ups.

Thanks for finally answering the OP.

Instead of:

Even if by having the set up we had we beat a top 5 side and kick the first 7 goals. I suggest that the set up worked perfectly.

Well done. Elephant stamp for you.

[jays]

who cares if we win

[bigcarl]

who cares if we win

i do. it beats losing.

[dragit]

I was feeling this way after the Collingwood game,
Sure we beat WCE without Kerr last night but in the Pies game we often had Dempster, Polo & Jones at the centre bounces too and in that game our inside 50 count was around half of theirs…
It looks like a pretty defensive set-up when you don't have any genuine ball-winners in the centre, but hey if we can win against the best that way - awesome, but at the moment we still haven't troubled a top 4 side so the jury is still out.
One thing though, there is a lot more going on in a game than you can take in as a spectator…

[spert]

West Coast dominate the rucks and can't manage 10 goals with a supposed powerhouse of a forward line..job done Saints..next please

Sigh...

Yes Worsfold would be having a nice sigh about now

[matrix]

yeah steven not in the guts is amazing

[hungry for a premiership]

The proof is in the pudding.

I can't understanding some of the RL bashing. I'm 95% sure he has the best winning percentage of any coach in the history of the club (maybe Jeans has better?), and also the best winning percentage of any of the current coaches who've been coaching for over a year.

If you look at the history of VFL/AFL coaches, other coaches who have a similar percentage of win/loss to Ross Lyon have ALL coached sides to flags. This leads me to conclude that as long as RL is our coach, it is only a matter of time until he delivers a flag. The oracle has told me that as long as RL is coaching the club, he will eventually win a premiership with us. Just keep the faith saints.

[Saints43]

West Coast dominate the rucks and can't manage 10 goals with a supposed powerhouse of a forward line..job done Saints..next please

Sigh...

Yes Worsfold would be having a nice sigh about now

Maybe wearing all his premiership medals. Thinking about the fact that he's rebuilt his premiership club. Thinking about their ladder position. Who knows?

But I bet he can rest easy knowing that he can undestand simple questions.

[perfectionist]

... I'm 95% sure he has the best winning percentage of any coach in the history of the club (maybe Jeans has better?)...

Make that 100%.

Top 3
Ross Lyon - 64.6%
George Sparrow - 58.7% (he took us to the 1913 "GF" in his first year)
Allan Jeans - 58.3%

[matrix]

"Surely isnt to hard to understand."