Do we have a culture problem?

[saintlee]

And I don't necessarily mean just the players, I mean the whole club. Reason I ask is there a person at my work who used to work for the club a few years ago and lets just say she is not complementary about the place. Her words "St Kilda has a terrible culture, worst in the AFL"....

Not trying to bag the club here, just really interested if anyone can comment on this? Hopefully someone with actual exprience at the club who knows if we have a culture problem...

[Dr Spaceman]

And I don't necessarily mean just the players, I mean the whole club. Reason I ask is there a person at my work who used to work for the club a few years ago and lets just say she is not complementary about the place. Her words "St Kilda has a terrible culture, worst in the AFL"....

Not trying to bag the club here, just really interested if anyone can comment on this? Hopefully someone with actual exprience at the club who knows if we have a culture problem...

Just out of curiosity, has that person worked at any other AFL clubs in order to establish that the Saints are in fact the "worst in the AFL"

[philtee]

Not trying to be smart, but I would point out that your source has only experience with one club, and nothing with the other 16.

[saintlee]

Sorry, forgot to add, the person in question has worked at 2 clubs, the other being Hawthorn.

And yes, her comment that St Kilda has the worst culture in the AFL is a generalisation, but the question remains, do we have a culture problem?

[SaintPav]

And I don't necessarily mean just the players, I mean the whole club. Reason I ask is there a person at my work who used to work for the club a few years ago and lets just say she is not complementary about the place. Her words "St Kilda has a terrible culture, worst in the AFL"....

Not trying to bag the club here, just really interested if anyone can comment on this? Hopefully someone with actual exprience at the club who knows if we have a culture problem...

Did she work with Archie Frazer?

How would she know it's the worst in the AFL unless she has worked at every club?

Having said that, we have won one premiership in 138 years, so she might be on to something.

[SaintPav]

Sorry, forgot to add, the person in question has worked at 2 clubs, the other being Hawthorn.

And yes, her comment that St Kilda has the worst culture in the AFL is a generalisation, but the question remains, do we have a culture problem?

Well that changes everything.

[plugger66]

Yes we do. I was at the museum the other day and saw Dal walk out his disgust telling his girlfriend he will never go in that boring place ever again.

[degruch]

Until she's worked at Port Adelaide, she probably wouldn't know.

[saintlee]

And I don't necessarily mean just the players, I mean the whole club. Reason I ask is there a person at my work who used to work for the club a few years ago and lets just say she is not complementary about the place. Her words "St Kilda has a terrible culture, worst in the AFL"....

Not trying to bag the club here, just really interested if anyone can comment on this? Hopefully someone with actual exprience at the club who knows if we have a culture problem...

Did she work with Archie Frazer?

How would she know it's the worst in the AFL unless she has worked at every club?

Having said that, we have won one premiership in 138 years, so she might be on to something.

Not sure if Archie Frazer was there...was about 2 years ago that she was there.

[PaytonPlace]

And I don't necessarily mean just the players, I mean the whole club. Reason I ask is there a person at my work who used to work for the club a few years ago and lets just say she is not complementary about the place. Her words "St Kilda has a terrible culture, worst in the AFL"....

Not trying to bag the club here, just really interested if anyone can comment on this? Hopefully someone with actual exprience at the club who knows if we have a culture problem...

If you wanted to look at it through a very narrow prism where the negatives are all you think of, well....

West Coast: Drugs, captain leaves partly due to poor player behaviour, Chick punches Embley...

Sydney Swans: Star full forward punches players until he gets sacked, and something else you can find on Google

Collingwood: Swan vs Cleaner, Shaw vs Bookies, Shaw vs Lamp-post, Shaw vs Truth, Cloke vs left hook, Pendleburys 21st, Beams vs the law...

Geelong: Steve Johnson, David Johnson, Alleged Paul Chapman story, Coach leaves saying players don't learn the gameplan...

Mystery Un-named Victorian Club fails many, many drug tests...

I could go on. Point being: especially the last 4 all have "strong cultures" according to the press. Know why? They've won flags. We nearly did. And as long as it's nearly, in the media our culture will be derided I'm afraid...if we won one, the bubble would be the new black....

I don't know if your friend has something specific, I couldn't comment, but that's my 2c...

Becca

[saintlee]

And I don't necessarily mean just the players, I mean the whole club. Reason I ask is there a person at my work who used to work for the club a few years ago and lets just say she is not complementary about the place. Her words "St Kilda has a terrible culture, worst in the AFL"....

Not trying to bag the club here, just really interested if anyone can comment on this? Hopefully someone with actual exprience at the club who knows if we have a culture problem...

If you wanted to look at it through a very narrow prism where the negatives are all you think of, well....

West Coast: Drugs, captain leaves partly due to poor player behaviour, Chick punches Embley...

Sydney Swans: Star full forward punches players until he gets sacked, and something else you can find on Google

Collingwood: Swan vs Cleaner, Shaw vs Bookies, Shaw vs Lamp-post, Shaw vs Truth, Cloke vs left hook, Pendleburys 21st, Beams vs the law...

Geelong: Steve Johnson, David Johnson, Alleged Paul Chapman story, Coach leaves saying players don't learn the gameplan...

Mystery Un-named Victorian Club fails many, many drug tests...

I could go on. Point being: especially the last 4 all have "strong cultures" according to the press. Know why? They've won flags. We nearly did. And as long as it's nearly, in the media our culture will be derided I'm afraid...if we won one, the bubble would be the new black....

I don't know if your friend has something specific, I couldn't comment, but that's my 2c...

Becca

Yeah, I'm more or less aware of these sorts of player issues, its more the overall culture I'm interested in, that is the admin, management, professionalism etc of the place.

[PaytonPlace]

And I don't necessarily mean just the players, I mean the whole club. Reason I ask is there a person at my work who used to work for the club a few years ago and lets just say she is not complementary about the place. Her words "St Kilda has a terrible culture, worst in the AFL"....

Not trying to bag the club here, just really interested if anyone can comment on this? Hopefully someone with actual exprience at the club who knows if we have a culture problem...

If you wanted to look at it through a very narrow prism where the negatives are all you think of, well....

West Coast: Drugs, captain leaves partly due to poor player behaviour, Chick punches Embley...

Sydney Swans: Star full forward punches players until he gets sacked, and something else you can find on Google

Collingwood: Swan vs Cleaner, Shaw vs Bookies, Shaw vs Lamp-post, Shaw vs Truth, Cloke vs left hook, Pendleburys 21st, Beams vs the law...

Geelong: Steve Johnson, David Johnson, Alleged Paul Chapman story, Coach leaves saying players don't learn the gameplan...

Mystery Un-named Victorian Club fails many, many drug tests...

I could go on. Point being: especially the last 4 all have "strong cultures" according to the press. Know why? They've won flags. We nearly did. And as long as it's nearly, in the media our culture will be derided I'm afraid...if we won one, the bubble would be the new black....

I don't know if your friend has something specific, I couldn't comment, but that's my 2c...

Becca

Yeah, I'm more or less aware of these sorts of player issues, its more the overall culture I'm interested in, that is the admin, management, professionalism etc of the place.

I guess what I was trying to get at (if it makes sense) is that we live in a culture that values winners. From an outside perspective, the reason people would say we have a terrible culture is because we don't win flags, but it would turn on a dime if we had won one of two. Like Geelong in 2007, the day they were 2-3 a big double page spread appeared in the Herald Sun saying they were a joke and a rabble and ex players were wheeled out to say how hopeless the place is...

They kicked 220 points against Richmond that day and started winning. The same people were in charge, same coach, same players doing the same things, just the on field performance improved. Our management and way of doing things would be a template and a standard if we'd won the flag: we lost, so it's all wrong....

Hope that makes sense anyway

[degruch]

I guess what I was trying to get at (if it makes sense) is that we live in a culture that values winners. From an outside perspective, the reason people would say we have a terrible culture is because we don't win flags, but it would turn on a dime if we had won one of two.

Two years ago, we were smashing anyone that came near us...I guess that's what makes the comment interesting. I remember in 2008 there was a widely held view that St Kilda was a terrible place to play/work, when things weren't going so well. Never heard that from anyone in the club, of course.

[saintlee]

I guess what I was trying to get at (if it makes sense) is that we live in a culture that values winners. From an outside perspective, the reason people would say we have a terrible culture is because we don't win flags, but it would turn on a dime if we had won one of two.

Two years ago, we were smashing anyone that came near us...I guess that's what makes the comment interesting. I remember in 2008 there was a widely held view that St Kilda was a terrible place to play/work, when things weren't going so well. Never heard that from anyone in the club, of course.

Yes, that's precisely what I'm getting at...my colleague worked for the Saints at a time when we going alright on the field, but she hated working for the club...it was really disappointing to hear, and wanted to see if anyone else had similar or different stories about it...

[PaytonPlace]

I guess what I was trying to get at (if it makes sense) is that we live in a culture that values winners. From an outside perspective, the reason people would say we have a terrible culture is because we don't win flags, but it would turn on a dime if we had won one of two.

Two years ago, we were smashing anyone that came near us...I guess that's what makes the comment interesting. I remember in 2008 there was a widely held view that St Kilda was a terrible place to play/work, when things weren't going so well. Never heard that from anyone in the club, of course.

(I love these kind of arguments, so if I bang on, let me know!)

But we didn't win a flag, and to the outside world, that means something is wrong with our culture and it's really lazy thinking (especially in PR circles and media outlets)

OK, I know a girl who worked at Collingwood doing the same job I do, but for them, media work, PR....all that stuff. She said it was horrible to work there, the only person who ever learned her name (and I apologize for this!) was Mick Malthouse, the department was utterly micro-managed, and it was full of petty inter office jealousies. But if I went to a party or conference and said "man, Collingwood, that has an awful culture" people would look at me strangely or at least debate the point. If I said the same things but substituted St Kilda into the conversation I guarantee one person would say "Yeah that's why they don't win Premierships"

And the strong culture would be the one with a long rap sheet, and a board that lost them 8 million dollars in bad pub deals and the weak one would be the one held ransom to a crazy teenager...could you extrapolate from that winners have strong cultures and losers have weak cultures as far as the media and the populace is concerned?

[desertsaint]

not to worry - the exiting out of a former captain and quality individual, the recruiting of lovett, the sexual escapades with psychotic sixteen year olds, the naked cavorting, the sleeping pill parties...
all these cultural issues happened under the watch of a man of questionable ethics who has now beenn exited out.
our culture will improve.

[degruch]

I guess what I was trying to get at (if it makes sense) is that we live in a culture that values winners. From an outside perspective, the reason people would say we have a terrible culture is because we don't win flags, but it would turn on a dime if we had won one of two.

Two years ago, we were smashing anyone that came near us...I guess that's what makes the comment interesting. I remember in 2008 there was a widely held view that St Kilda was a terrible place to play/work, when things weren't going so well. Never heard that from anyone in the club, of course.

(I love these kind of arguments, so if I bang on, let me know!)

But we didn't win a flag, and to the outside world, that means something is wrong with our culture and it's really lazy thinking (especially in PR circles and media outlets)

Yes, granted...just because the office was a s*** place to work, doesn't mean the club itself has a 'bad culture'. Collingwood has a bad culture, but everyone might be having a blast at the expense of the rest of the world. Eddie may be Mr Scorpio for all we know.

[Jacks Back]

Mr Scorpio? What is he Mr November or something?

[Dr Spaceman]

But we don't really want to be a culture club anyway do we?

[degruch]

Mr Scorpio? What is he Mr November or something?

Hank Scorpio, the perfect boss, and super-villian!



"Just call me Hank".

[Con Gorozidis]

Can you get more info out of her?

"worst culture in the afl" doesnt shed any light on anything.

be nice if she elaborated.

[Rosco]

my office suffers from bad culture - mostly when my co-workers leave their half full coffee mugs at their desks over the weekend

also: "used to work for the club" - why did she leave?

[gringo]

Sorry, forgot to add, the person in question has worked at 2 clubs, the other being Hawthorn.

And yes, her comment that St Kilda has the worst culture in the AFL is a generalisation, but the question remains, do we have a culture problem?

Jeezus we must be f***ed, a mate who follows the Hawks and knows some high up people there told me that the reason the Hawks rebuilt their list was due to some extremely problematic cultural issues at the club. He fully expected the club to have a major media incident that blew over. If we are worse than what I was told we may be in some serious trouble.

[Rosco]

i thought it was a bit unfair being compared with hawthorn - by all accounts they're a happy team

[Winmar]

The culture thing bugs me more than a bit. It seems that those who are lazy of thought like to slap the "poor culture" tag on the club all the time, as if it's still 1985. I'm yet to hear any evidence that our culture is worse than that of other clubs now. Lots of AFL clubs have had players who have stuffed up (hello Campbell Brown), so Dawson and co breaking rules to go out for drinks is not in itself indicative of a wider problem.