Sliding doors and Geelong

[meher baba]

Watching Geelong's excellent performance yesterday got me thinking about what has happened to both them and us since the dramatic events of 2006-07 when, while Geelong persisted with the long-term strategy they had worked out from the early 2000s, we sacked first our coach and then our president and moved off in a radically-different direction to where we had been going since 2000-01.

Geelong continues to defy the concept of a "premiership window" and, as they demonstrated clearly yesterday by defeating the pre-season premiership favourite, are strong contenders for winning a fourth flag in six seasons. This is despite the fact that they have an evolving list: 9 out of the 22 who played for them in the 2007 Grand Final have retired or otherwise left the club, including their superstar GA Jnr. Costa and Thompson and others at the club implemented a strategy in the early 2000s which was very similar to that developed by Thomas, Butterss and Waldron at the same time. That is, build a strong playing list based on young guys recruited through the draft and get them to develop close teamwork and use this platform as the basis to become one of the top clubs over a long period: on the principle that, if you are good enough for long enough, the premierships will eventually come.

In 2006, Geelong's strategy was looking pretty sick when they missed the finals altogether. There were calls from within and outside the club to look to change everything: sack the coach, go in a different direction, etc. But, with a truly experienced businessman at the helm of their club, they held their nerve and boy has that decision paid off.

In the same year, we made the finals and then lost disappointingly in the elimination final during which half a dozen of our players went down with injury. The rest is history: there was turmoil at the club, we sacked the coach and went looking for a new one to do things very differently. A year later, after further turmoil at the club, the President was voted out. (Instrumental in both these knifiing processes was a guy who has gone on to become Clive Palmer's main assistant in his quixotic battle with the Football Federation).

In terms of the board's new strategy - which was, more or less, to do everything possible to win a premiership as soon as possible - Lyon was an inspired choice. But his approach was based not on building a platform for the long-term but on maximising results in the here and now. So we saw the emergence of the "role player": guys with relatively little talent and even less crowd appeal, but whose efforts would contribute to the overall game plan. And we topped up like made by bringing in recycled players. Eventually the recycling got out of control and we ended up with Lovett and Jesse Smith and others who contributed nothing at all. Meanwhile, club stalwarts like Ball and Goose were sent packing.

But, on the whole, it all seemed to work we got achingly close to that second premiership. But we fell short. And now, when we benchmark ourselves against Geelong, we appear to be paying the price for our focus on the short-term. They do not appear likely to sink to the bottom of the ladder any time soon, whereas it is quite possible that we are already on our way down there.

What we'll never know now is whether, under Thomas or (given that continuing with Thomas was never an option due to his bitter feud with Butterss) some coach other than Lyon, we might have been able to have it all): that is, continuing to build for the long-term a la Geelong while also challenging for premierships. Perhaps we didn't/couldn't invest enough in facilities and support staff. And perhaps we didn't quite have the right group of players relative to Geelong's. And, of course, they were bloody lucky to get some great father/son picks and also to pick up Joel Selwood when they did: although we were arguably also pretty lucky to end up with Goddard.

All I know is that, back in 2006, I was laughing at Geelong for being a bunch of softies and chokers. In 2012, I couldn't be more envious........

[joffaboy]

I'll wait for the movie to come out Im think.......

[dragit]

The old father son rule is still greatly influencing how good the cats are…

Maybe only one of their 3 best players from yesterday would be there under the new rules…

I should add that it is not their fault and they have drafted & nurtured extremely well.

[meher baba]

I'll wait for the movie to come out Im think.......

Perhaps with Cameron Ling in the pretty boy role pioneered by John Hanna? That's be a good look, wouldn't it: a love scene featuring Lingy and Gwyneth Paltrow.

[Cairnsman]

Don't be fooled by their win against the Hawks. They will slide this year.

[SainterK]

Don't be fooled by their win against the Hawks. They will slide this year.

Fooled how?

They are not even in the eight

I must point out that I am being sarcastic, and I think they will be there when the whips are cracking

[SaintPav]

A bit of luck comes into this as well. We have had none. Hubris will get Geelong in the end. Nothing against them, they are a fantsatic team and a great club but it gets everyone in the end.

[meher baba]

The old father son rule is still greatly influencing how good the cats are…

Maybe only one of their 3 best players from yesterday would be there under the new rules…

I should add that it is not their fault and they have drafted & nurtured extremely well.

Also, perhaps we could see the emphasis on father-son picks as being indicative of a rather nurturing, group-oriented approach to list development at Geelong. While Hawkins was certainly a much-heralded recruit, some of the other F-S picks at the club, notably GA Jnr, were not that highly rated before the draft. And even Hawkins was a significant disappointment in his first few seasons and it is possible that other clubs might have traded or discarded him before he came good.

[Con Gorozidis]

Don't be fooled by their win against the Hawks. They will slide this year.

who gives a toss.
they just won 3 flags.
the only fools are anyone who has ever written them off.
has any supporter group received more value for money than they have produced in the past 5 years?

[dragit]

The old father son rule is still greatly influencing how good the cats are…

Maybe only one of their 3 best players from yesterday would be there under the new rules…

I should add that it is not their fault and they have drafted & nurtured extremely well.

Also, perhaps we could see the emphasis on father-son picks as being indicative of a rather nurturing, group-oriented approach to list development at Geelong. While Hawkins was certainly a much-heralded recruit, some of the other F-S picks at the club, notably GA Jnr, were not that highly rated before the draft. And even Hawkins was a significant disappointment in his first few seasons and it is possible that other clubs might have traded or discarded him before he came good.

True, but they were able to take Hawkins with their 3rd or 4th pick instead of their first pick (as would have been the case with a bidding system)

Enter - Joel Selwood.

This was really the straw that broke the camel for the FS rule, as Hawkins was touted as the next plugger heading into the draft…

[Con Gorozidis]

A bit of luck comes into this as well. We have had none. Hubris will get Geelong in the end. Nothing against them, they are a fantsatic team and a great club but it gets everyone in the end.

"get them in the end"
even if they spontaneously combust tomorrow in an intergalactic meteor shower - they will have eclipsed our clubs entire flag haul by 200% - in only 5 years.
we just have to face facts. they win.
doesnt mean we cant win in the future. but u can never take away what they have already done. as cocky as he is - stevie j and his mates will take 3 flags to their graves and deservedly so. they play tough hard and all round good footy.

[SaintPav]

I am aware..

[SaintPav]

A bit of luck comes into this as well. We have had none. Hubris will get Geelong in the end. Nothing against them, they are a fantsatic team and a great club but it gets everyone in the end.

"get them in the end"
even if they spontaneously combust tomorrow in an intergalactic meteor shower - they will have eclipsed our clubs entire flag haul by 200% - in only 5 years.
we just have to face facts. they win.
doesnt mean we cant win in the future. but u can never take away what they have already done. as cocky as he is - stevie j and his mates will take 3 flags to their graves and deservedly so. they play tough hard and all round good footy.

Hey Con....DAH

I was referring to some sort of dynasty that would go on for ever....at least I don't go early mate and crack a fat over beating GC and then start a thread about it....

[8856brother]

I vividly remember Paul Chapman stating the Cat's young guns were better than ours after we beat them back in the mid 2000's. It may even have been after the NAB Cup final. It caused a bit storm. I remember the footy world were split at that time. People were commenting on what a great rivalry the 2 sides were going to have in the next decade. He copped plenty on here and Saints Central from Saints supporters. I personally remember thinking he's kidding himself, and how confidant I was that I would finally see a premiership in the next few years.

Anyway. History will not only judge them as one of the greatest sides of this era, but also as one of the greatest sides of all time. We on the other hand will be remembered as either one of the unluckiest sides ever, or a side that just couldn't get over that final hurdle after numerous chances.

It's been tough living in Geelong through this period. Now it's even worse as they laugh off suggestions they are finished and are still a genuine flag threat. We on the other hand are on the rebuild. Exciting in it's own way but not as exciting as 09/10 when we knew we had a chance.

Didn't see it coming all that time ago.

[dragit]

I vividly remember Paul Chapman stating the Cat's young guns were better than ours after we beat them back in the mid 2000's. It may even have been after the NAB Cup final.

Yes the only thing good to come out of that was that after a close NAB cup win, we smashed them by 10 goals the week after in round 1.

Though I dare say Chapman would have a bit of a laugh at that now…

[Con Gorozidis]

I was referring to some sort of dynasty that would go on for ever....at least I don't go early mate and crack a fat over beating GC and then start a thread about it....

the other reason i cracked a fat this weekend was because i went to the eagles/demons game and it was a bit of a reality check.
im like - heck - our problems are tiny compared with most clubs! Not sure what ive moaning about all this time.
much rather be us than the dees!

[Sobraz]

Great (but in many ways, terrible) OP...

James Bartell is the man... He is the one from the '01 draft that I'd pick first... Ahead of Judd, Hodge, Ball etc, Bartell is the heart and soul of a truly wonderful team... Selwood has continued his legacy...

[mr six o'clock]

whats made them so great is their best 10 players play very good football every week.
In the same period we've had probably 3 or 4 , players like joey , gram , gilbo , kosi , milney & sneids are great players , but too often play average games.

[Con Gorozidis]

Great (but in many ways, terrible) OP...

James Bartell is the man... He is the one from the '01 draft that I'd pick first... Ahead of Judd, Hodge, Ball etc, Bartell is the heart and soul of a truly wonderful team... Selwood has continued his legacy...

bartel is what 5'11? 6ft?
awesome overhead. and never f*cks up a kick.

[stevie]

As much as I admire the Cats, their failure to win back to back puts them well below the Lions of early 2000's, and the Hawks of the 80's in discussions of the best team ever.

And has anyway else realized their three flags have all been won in white shorts?

[dragit]

As much as I admire the Cats, their failure to win back to back puts them well below the Lions of early 2000's, and the Hawks of the 80's in discussions of the best team ever.

And has anyway else realized their three flags have all been won in white shorts?

I would take a flag in mankini's and feather bowers…

[desertsaint]

As much as I admire the Cats, their failure to win back to back puts them well below the Lions of early 2000's, and the Hawks of the 80's in discussions of the best team ever.

And has anyway else realized their three flags have all been won in white shorts?

By the end of this decade we will quite possibly be looking at their dynasty as being equal to the hawks of the 80s and above the lions one. One more prem to surpass the lions and a couple more to pass the hawks.

[gringo]

My impression of Geelong is that the small casual town doesn't let people get too big for them selves. They can maintain a list of second tier players even when they don't play every week. Byrnes, Stokes etc even Wojak would have moved on if they were collingwood or saints -more money and opportunity. Someone can always cover for a missing player and they only seem to delist the real dead wood. Gamble and Djerrkura for instance.

[prwilkinson]

I went to that game and left thinking that I didn't see anything to suggest that St.Kilda couldn't strongly compete against either of those clubs.

[joffaboy]

I went to that game and left thinking that I didn't see anything to suggest that St.Kilda couldn't strongly compete against either of those clubs.

I absolutely agree.

The only two teams that i think we cant compete with or are a complete cut above us after two rounds are WCE and Carlton.

Both look awesome, however Hawthorn, Geelong and Collingwood made a host of mistakes and watching both games as a neutral, I thought their disposal efficeiency was all pretty below par.