Tanking: Are we safe?

[saintspremiers]

Did St Kilda tank at all in 01 or 02?

I think there was some talk of it, but not as obvious as Carlton, Melbourne or WCE.

[skeptic]

tank how?

we were pretty average back then and fail to see how we could have done any better?

1/2 the list was turned over with the fair majoirty being delisted most of which didn't go on to do much at AFL again minus Shane Wakelin and maybe Sziller

[plugger66]

Why does it matter if we did or didnt. They arent going to penalise us.

[saintdooley]

nah, we were just s***.

[battye]

How can the AFL prove Melbourne tanked? McLean said it himself... they were experimenting and developing youth. Sure, the end result was high draft picks but nobody in an official capacity will ever admit to trying to lose.

[desertsaint]

I think the fate of our coach pretty much puts the kibosh on any tanking rumors

[tony74]

I reckon we tanked in the eighties. Full as a tank were most of our players ( Particularly at the disco )

[gringo]

We got Goddard for free but we should have stayed down and got him anyway. But seriously Blight came in and sacked and burned our list then we got a Tim trim and were basically starting from scratch again with Harves, Pecker and Thommo the only guys that hung in through the retirements and move ons. Just unfortunately completely s***.We gave up Lappin, Carr, Wakelins, Sziller, Shanners and co for nothing sacked the rest and loaded up on youth. Some genius some not so sharp but still loved Joe Mc Laren, Moyle and the guys in between that era and the current one.

[bigcarl]

Did St Kilda tank at all in 01 or 02?

I think there was some talk of it, but not as obvious as Carlton, Melbourne or WCE.

We definitely had a strategy in place to develop from the national draft.

I have my suspicions.

Strange things like playing Gehrig at full back when we couldn't buy a goal or find a forward.

Even if we did ... and I suspect it was part of the fat controller's master plan to build a killer list ... who's complaining.

It did deliver us a killer list and led to years of sustained success. No flag, true, but the club's greatest era bar the 60s.

And, as was pointed out, we're not going to br penalised

[Moods]

Gehrig played great at Full back from what I remember.

No way we tanked. We were just awful. Was it 02 or 01 Rd 22 when Hall kicked 7 goals and then left for Sydney the next day? You don't tank and then go out and win Rd 22

[bigcarl]

Gehrig played great at Full back from what I remember.

He did, but we had no one capable of taking a mark and kicking a goal up forward.

Anyway, whether we did tank or were just plain ordinary, we achieved what we set out to, which was to stock up on a lot of good draft talent and develop it.

[Dr Spaceman]

We're the appointments of Tim Watson & Malcolm Blight evidence of tanking, or simply of poor decision making?

[skeptic]

Gehrig played great at Full back from what I remember.

He did, but we had no one capable of taking a mark and kicking a goal up forward.

Anyway, whether we did tank or were just plain ordinary, we achieved what we set out to, which was to stock up on a lot of good draft talent and develop it.

IIRC didn't Gehrig return from injury and initially play back under Blight?

His first few forays up forward weren't much chop either until he exploded in that Nth Melb game... after that his position was sealed.

GT made it very clear that it was his intention to build up from the draft. I can't recall a single move indicative of us deliberately losing games. We had a horrendous injury toll and turned over the majority of our list.

Again where's the debate?

[bigcarl]

GT made it very clear that it was his intention to build up from the draft.

Yes, we stocked up on kids ... as Melbourne tried to do and I reckon Carlton and others have attempted also. Unfortunately the Demons picked the wrong kids (or seem to have).

I can't prove anything, but like I said, I have my suspicions, which I'm entitled to.

I don't think players tank, but I think clubs do more often than is realised.

And btw, I don't have a problem with what was (or wasn't) done.

[remboy]

I remember in 2002 GT said we were going to draft kids and play kids and if that meant short term pain for long term gain then so be it. Is that tanking?
I honestly don't believe players try to lose but coaches have always been guilty of not giving their side the best chance to win. Every year players go for surgery as soon as their team can't make the finals. Will that mean they drop an an extra couple of games? Probably. Will it get tehm an earlier draft pick? Possibly. Is it tanking?
Daniel Cross is going to have surgery on the shoulder he injured on the weekend putting him out for the year. Could he possibly strap it up and play the last couple of rounds? If so, are the Bulldogs taking by putting him out to pasture for the rest of the season?
It's not as black and white as people try to make it.

[Mr Magic]

IMO 'tanking' is at half time removing your 'winners' from their positions on the field and thereby ensuring you turn a winning position into a loss.

I well remember the last H&A game of 2009 when at half time they were 'pantsing' us, only to come out after the break with many positional changes.
Yes we may well have found a way to win that game anyway, but (again IMO) they made it a certainty in the Melbourne coaching box that day.

[bigcarl]

(GT said we will) play kids and if that meant short term pain for long term gain then so be it. Is that tanking? .

If you have better, more experienced players not getting a game, then I guess it is.

[Thinline]

I reckon playing Monkhorst was tanking personified.

Only joking. Kind of.

[Moorabbin Man]

I think we tanked in the last 3 or 4 games of 2002. I remember a game against Collingwood in about round 20 where we lead at 3 qtr time and were all over them. Then Roo who I think kicked 9 (or some sort of a bag) that day, was moved out of the goal square and Hamill to CHB??!! at 3 qtr time and then we were overrun.

[Con Gorozidis]

Did St Kilda tank at all in 01 or 02?

I think there was some talk of it, but not as obvious as Carlton, Melbourne or WCE.

safe from what? is this going to be the salem witch trials? AFL should be taking whole responsibility for this mess - not having a witch hunt on players/clubs and officials.

[Thinline]

AFL rules have incentivised failure for teams not good enough to make the eight. How on earth can they punish anyone for that?

[bigcarl]

AFL rules have incentivised failure for teams not good enough to make the eight. How on earth can they punish anyone for that?

Good point. A club would be crazy not to take advantage of it.

[Con Gorozidis]

AFL rules have incentivised failure for teams not good enough to make the eight. How on earth can they punish anyone for that?

Good point. A club would be crazy not to take advantage of it.

Agree wholeheartedly. The AFL created this perverse system. Everyone warned them against it and told them what was going on. They totally shouted down any dissenters like a Stalinist purge and now they seem to want a witch hunt. Memo to AFL: This is your mess. Own up and take responsibility. Dont go after players/officials/clubs.

[plugger66]

AFL rules have incentivised failure for teams not good enough to make the eight. How on earth can they punish anyone for that?

Good point. A club would be crazy not to take advantage of it.

Agree wholeheartedly. The AFL created this perverse system. Everyone warned them against it and told them what was going on. They totally shouted down any dissenters like a Stalinist purge and now they seem to want a witch hunt. Memo to AFL: This is your mess. Own up and take responsibility. Dont go after players/officials/clubs.

I dont think they have. And they have also changed the rules. By the way cant remember to many stories back in the late 90's, when the priorty pick came in, saying that this would happen. Happy for you to show me just one.

[prwilkinson]

We were a very ordinary side then... very ordinary.. don't think we needed to tank.