Whats or Plan B or C?

[mohannair]

We had an excellent plan to get Lee, Caddy, and Brown & Hickey.

We achieved the first 25% relatively easily but seem to struggle to get the rest. We are caught in the hype & now it is become sort of pride to win the Brown deal. There is lot of argy-bargy going on between our supporters & WCE supporters on Big Footy over this deal that the Mod has locked this thread.

St. Kilda has maintained its interest on Brown & equally WCE is stood their ground knowing that Jamie Cripps is uncontracted & wants to go to the Eagles.

More so that once almost done deal to snare Hickey it seems there are a couple of others clubs who have thrown their hat in the ring. Have already lost Caddy to the Cats, I think we should start working on Plan B ASAP & if it fails should try plan C next week.

Plan B should target someone like Pears from the Dons or some gun in the VFL or as suggested try Martin from the Dees or Jesse White from the swans etc.

Plan C should be to concentrate on the draft & use Wilkes as the Monster defender we need.

I have seen several times that if one gets obsessed in getting a deal & does not eventuate then we lose grip of the other potential deals we could have snared.

Thoughts??

[st_Trav_ofWA]

I think a lot of the hype is manufactured by the AFL to keep the interest in the trade month ... Fact is nothing of note is going to happen until we have our compo pick secured .. And that's still a week away

[gringo]

We had an excellent plan to get Lee, Caddy, and Brown & Hickey.

We achieved the first 25% relatively easily but seem to struggle to get the rest. We are caught in the hype & now it is become sort of pride to win the Brown deal. There is lot of argy-bargy going on between our supporters & WCE supporters on Big Footy over this deal that the Mod has locked this thread.

St. Kilda has maintained its interest on Brown & equally WCE is stood their ground knowing that Jamie Cripps is uncontracted & wants to go to the Eagles.

More so that once almost done deal to snare Hickey it seems there are a couple of others clubs who have thrown their hat in the ring. Have already lost Caddy to the Cats, I think we should start working on Plan B ASAP & if it fails should try plan C next week.

Plan B should target someone like Pears from the Dons or some gun in the VFL or as suggested try Martin from the Dees or Jesse White from the swans etc.

Plan C should be to concentrate on the draft & use Wilkes as the Monster defender we need.

I have seen several times that if one gets obsessed in getting a deal & does not eventuate then we lose grip of the other potential deals we could have snared.

Thoughts??

Wilkes is not a defender and is actually only really a forward or nothing. His only good form has been as a forward in both the WAFL and AFL comps. Pears has at least seen some time as a back man and could still be a possibility. Martin and White both are untried but being from basketball backgrounds should have natural defensive sides to their game and be able to close check. I'm pretty confident that the recruiters have about 30 different plans with all kinds of back ups activated as needed.

[bobmurray]

We definitely need alternate plans, however, neither us or the media know what's really going on, i think the Free Agency compo crap has stalled trade week
and nothing much will happen until the compo crap is sorted, then it will be on and deals will get done.
I can't see how Essendon can be sniffing around our potential trades when they have just purchased the most expensive player on their list,
how much cap room do they have .
That Hickey article may be just a "maintain interest whilst nothings happening" type speculative piece of media garbage that is rife at the moment.

[saint6709]

I like the idea of white ( Wouldnt use a high pick though ) in the hope that he could become a very good big backman - seems pretty nimble for 197 cm and nearly 100 kg - don't know anything about his aptitude though - could he dedicate himself to be one of those ( fairly rare but inspiring stories)reinvented great players ?? Right age right size etc

[Dis Believer]

I don't think th ePelican is likely to get caught up in obsession about securing one particular deal to the detriment of other plans. That personality type would not succeed in making a career out of AFL list management.

I would exepct they will contine to pursue making a deal on Brown for as long as the consequences of that deal can be managed to our advantage. When that ceases to be the case I would expect they will disengage move on.

I personally think the WCE are starting to panic, They sound like they are coming out and making a few silly statements in the press (about Brown not being on the table, and us "respecting" Cripps desire to play at WCE), and you have to remember they have a weak position and will try some bluff and bluster.

1) Stevens has told WCE he wants out - that leaves them open to a losing deal
2) Brown has said he wants to come to the Saints - that leaves them open to a losing deal
3) They may have Wellingham, but it has cost them their first round pick.
4) They have little to deal with, their picks are 38, 57, 75

Personally, I expect more strong statements from them yet, but if they really want to be pig-headed I would consider a trade of Cripps & 53 to Freo for Broughton and 37.
Word is Freo are prepard to trade Broughton, who is a like for like type with Cripps, fits the age category we are weak in, and is good by foot. It gets Cripps to Perth (his primary objective) and stops us being bent over, it also leaves WCE looking for a deal on Stevens and us with something decent for Cripps as well as 4 picks in the top 40 and a chance of snaring Hickey. We can still swap Ray for Martin (with picks in the 40's being switched)

We lose:
Pick 12, Goddard, Cripps, Ray, pick 43, pick 53

we have:
Picks 13 , 24, 34, 37, 45, Lee, Broughton, Martin

We give GC picks 24 and 34 for HIckey, 25 & 44.

We end up with:

Picks 13 , 25, 37, 44, 45, Lee, Broughton, Martin, Hickey

[Saintersss]

People need to realise that not everything they hear in the media is actually happening and just because it isn't in the media doesn't mean it isn't happening.

[SaintTom]

I don't think th ePelican is likely to get caught up in obsession about securing one particular deal to the detriment of other plans. That personality type would not succeed in making a career out of AFL list management.

I would exepct they will contine to pursue making a a deal on Brown for as the consequences of that deal can be managed to our advantage. When that ceases to be the case I would expect they will disengage move on.

I personally think the WCE are starting to panic, They sound like they are coming out and making a few silly statements in the press (about Brown not being on the table, and us "respecting" Cripps desire to play at WCE), and you have to remember they have a weak position and will try some bluff and bluster.

1) Stevens has told WCE he wants out - that leaves them open to a losing deal
2) Brown has said he wants to come to the Saints - that leaves them open to a losing deal
3) They may have Wellingham, but it has cost them their first round pick.
4) They have little to deal with, their picks are 38, 57, 75

Personally, I expect more strong statements from them yet, but if they really want to be pig-headed I would consider a trade of Cripps & 53 to Freo for Broughton and 37.
Word is Freo are prepard to trade Broughton, who is a like for like type with Cripps, fits the age category we are weak in, and is good by foot. It gets Cripps to Perth (his primary objective) and stops us being bent over, it also leaves WCE looking for a deal on Stevens and us with something decent for Cripps as well as 4 picks in the top 40 and a chance of snaring Hickey. We can still swap Ray for Martin (with picks in the 40's being switched)

We lose:
Pick 12, Goddard, Cripps, Ray, pick 43, pick 53

we have:
Picks 13 , 24, 34, 37, 45, Lee, Broughton, Martin

We give GC picks 24 and 34 for HIckey, 25 & 44.

We end up with:

Picks 13 , 25, 37, 44, 45, Lee, Broughton, Martin, Hickey

How are they in a weak position? I had to sound like the broken record player that is any WCE supporter at the moment, but Brown is contracted. They do not have to trade him if we don't suit their needs. Now, they may want to trade him if they cannot convince him to stay, but they always have the fall back option of forcing him to stay another year.

Saints have said they're willing to have Cripps walk into the draft, and that may be true. But realistically, I think we are in the worse bargaining position for Brown.

Having said that, if the Eagles cannot convince Brown he wants to stay I would be shocked if they didn't end up trying to spark a deal with him. Two things that have to happen before we get to that point, though:


1) Brown has to come back from his holiday and have a meeting with the Eagles where they'll try and convince him to stay. If they do, then the saga is over. If they can't, I would think they'd be much more open to a trade than they are at the moment.

2) We have to wait to confirm what our Goddard compensation pick is. I doubt we'll be involved in much trading at all without knowledge of everything we have to trade.


If both those things fall into place in our favour, I'd be reasonably confident of Brown playing in a Saints jumper next year.

[Dis Believer]

Disagree Tom, the guy has said we wants to come to us. He is a Melbourne boy who is down the pecking order and could get paid better elsewhere. If they dpn't doa deal now they could (and probably will) lose him for nothing in one season from now. That's not a great position.
Agree we don't know our compo pick yet, and agree that we want confirmation of our picks before we trade things away, but would be horrified if pick thirteen was in play over Brown.

Don't forget, we may want Brown, but we can live without him. WE can give then Cripps for him now, and they want Cripps.

I believe WCE position is based on the fact that they HAVE to get something for Stevens as they will lose him, so they want to get Cripps for him, as they are going to lose him anyway. They are trying to overvalue Stevens and then demand a separate high price if we want Brown, who they won't lose immediately, probably on the belief that if Brown has to stay for 12 months he is closer to getting regular opportunity and they won't lose him at all.

I would not be surprised to see package deal for Stevens, Brown and Cripps. I would like to see us tell them to stick it and trade Cripps to Freo. I don't think Brown is that special.

[WinnersOnly]

Agreed True Believer I would much rather Greg BROUGHTON than STEVENS. BROUGHTON would be a good addition to our midfield rotations and I think we can replace CRIPPS as a HFF reasonably well.

[Old Mate]

Unfortunately with Brown being contracted WC hold the majority of the power however I believe the ace in the pack is the fact that Brown does not want to be at the Eagles. If he can be talked out of it he stays. If he is adamant that he still wishes to leave surely WC won't want him at the club. Why would any organisation want an employee who doesn't want to be there? It'll be a swift move, Brown for Cripps with perhaps a draft pick upgraded or thrown WC's way.

[gringo]

Steven or Boughton would be a similar pick imo. Both pretty young but haven't done much yet and look like they want opportunity elsewhere. Both could be anything.

[plugger66]

Steven or Boughton would be a similar pick imo. Both pretty young but haven't done much yet and look like they want opportunity elsewhere. Both could be anything.

Broughton is about 3 times the player Stevens is at the moment. He would be a great pick up. The only problem is why is he even mentioned. i would like Gary Ablett as well.

[Saintersss]

Steven or Boughton would be a similar pick imo. Both pretty young but haven't done much yet and look like they want opportunity elsewhere. Both could be anything.

Broughton is about 3 times the player Stevens is at the moment. He would be a great pick up. The only problem is why is he even mentioned. i would like Gary Ablett as well.

Not to mention Broughton is 26 (Stevens 21), so not young. Sometimes I wonder if people on here are actually serious?

[bergholt]

I would consider a trade of Cripps & 53 to Freo for Broughton and 37.

So would I, but I'm not sure why Freo would? Trade down the order and lose a good player in exchange for an unproven kid?

[Con Gorozidis]

Plan B should target someone like Pears from the Dons or some gun in the VFL or as suggested try Martin from the Dees or Jesse White from the swans etc.

Plan C should be to concentrate on the draft & use Wilkes as the Monster defender we need.

I have seen several times that if one gets obsessed in getting a deal & does not eventuate then we lose grip of the other potential deals we could have snared.

Thoughts??

Wilkes simply cant play down back.
People have to stop fantasising about it. Its not an option.
If we cant get any more guys in trade week. Lets just suck it up.
Get Hartigan in the draft late and get some gun kids with our good early draft picks.
Its probably all we can do. We should actually be pretty pumped with our draft picks.
Not sure we have had this many high picks in years.
13/23/33 ? lets get 3 youngs, hartigan and a hail mary!

[sax]

Plan B should be Martin (Melb), Stevens (WCE) & Hartigan (Weribee via draft).
Ray for Martin, Cripps for Stevens, late draft pick for Hartigan.
Ruck, Mid, KPD, done!

[saint6709]

Plan B should be Martin (Melb), Stevens (WCE) & Hartigan (Weribee via draft).
Ray for Martin, Cripps for Stevens, late draft pick for Hartigan.
Ruck, Mid, KPD, done!

hopefully you jest

[mohannair]

I like the idea of white ( Wouldnt use a high pick though ) in the hope that he could become a very good big backman - seems pretty nimble for 197 cm and nearly 100 kg - don't know anything about his aptitude though - could he dedicate himself to be one of those ( fairly rare but inspiring stories)reinvented great players ?? Right age right size etc

Thats excatly I thought, any player who is given a second chance normally puts in the hard yard. Size wise he is perfect, may be we can develop him like Josh Gibson, just to come in & punch the ball. Will get towards the fag end of the draft.

[mohannair]

Personally, I expect more strong statements from them yet, but if they really want to be pig-headed I would consider a trade of Cripps & 53 to Freo for Broughton and 37.
Word is Freo are prepard to trade Broughton, who is a like for like type with Cripps, fits the age category we are weak in, and is good by foot. It gets Cripps to Perth (his primary objective) and stops us being bent over, it also leaves WCE looking for a deal on Stevens and us with something decent for Cripps as well as 4 picks in the top 40 and a chance of snaring Hickey. We can still swap Ray for Martin


1) Brown has to come back from his holiday and have a meeting with the Eagles where they'll try and convince him to stay. If they do, then the saga is over. If they can't, I would think they'd be much more open to a trade than they are at the moment.

2) We have to wait to confirm what our Goddard compensation pick is. I doubt we'll be involved in much trading at all without knowledge of everything we have to trade.


If both those things fall into place in our favour, I'd be reasonably confident of Brown playing in a Saints jumper next year.

Excellent post SaintTom,

I was not aware Broughton was available, if so great.

Also when is Brown back?

[Dis Believer]

I would consider a trade of Cripps & 53 to Freo for Broughton and 37.

So would I, but I'm not sure why Freo would? Trade down the order and lose a good player in exchange for an unproven kid?

Just putting it out there as Freo have reportedly said Broughton is on the table. Cripps is a promising 1st round selection with pace and skill that was selelcted in ROss's time at the club. Broughton is a mature age rookie upgrade, with undoubted ability who seems to be expendable and whose type is relatively easily replaced.

Would be a replacement/upgrade for Ray IMO, and if WCE wanna be smartarses I would do it, if Freo accepted it.

[mohannair]

I would consider a trade of Cripps & 53 to Freo for Broughton and 37.

So would I, but I'm not sure why Freo would? Trade down the order and lose a good player in exchange for an unproven kid?

Just putting it out there as Freo have reportedly said Broughton is on the table. Cripps is a promising 1st round selection with pace and skill that was selelcted in ROss's time at the club. Broughton is a mature age rookie upgrade, with undoubted ability who seems to be expendable and whose type is relatively easily replaced.

Would be a replacement/upgrade for Ray IMO, and if WCE wanna be smartarses I would do it, if Freo accepted it.

Freo would love Jamie but Jamie may not want to play for Rossy

[sax]

I would consider a trade of Cripps & 53 to Freo for Broughton and 37.

So would I, but I'm not sure why Freo would? Trade down the order and lose a good player in exchange for an unproven kid?

Just putting it out there as Freo have reportedly said Broughton is on the table. Cripps is a promising 1st round selection with pace and skill that was selelcted in ROss's time at the club. Broughton is a mature age rookie upgrade, with undoubted ability who seems to be expendable and whose type is relatively easily replaced.

Would be a replacement/upgrade for Ray IMO, and if WCE wanna be smartarses I would do it, if Freo accepted it.

Why Broughton again? I'd rather Stevens, 5 years Younger, hard nut, a very high "ceiling".

[St Ick]

Broughton is a 26 year old GOP who would take games away from Newnes or Geary... no thanks...

[Heidelberg_Saint]

If WCE continue to play hard ball on Brown, I suggest the following:
- reject Koby Stevens as replacement for Cripps;
- start talking about re-engaging contract discussions with Mitch Brown again at the end of 2013. He'll be a free agent anyway.
Screw them.