The argument for Roo to leave St Kilda

[kell]

There is a proposition that once a clubs window of opportunity to win a premiership has closed it needs to “bottom out” for it to be reopened by getting the “advantage” of high draft picks. There are clubs that seem to be able to defy this logic. However, inquiry shows their ability to defy gravity may be linked with other “advantages” such as greater wealth, father/ son picks or just simple good luck.

Notwithstanding, if we accept the necessity to “bottom out” then the only argument for Roo to remain at the Saints is as a mentor for the younger players. However, for my part I can’t think of an example where a club that has lost many its best players all but for a solitary mentor or two has been able to rebuild and win a premiership.
Personally, I would be gutted if Roo left the club. But I knew after our loss to the Pies in the GF that it is going to take some serious and drastic measures to see the Saints win a premiership in my lifetime in was is now clearly a two tiered competition, heavily biased to afford the expansion in NSW and Qld and commercial success as a priority over heart and loyalty.

The Saints have nothing left to offer Roo. As a supporter who has loved to watch him play over the years and admire the dignity and courage he has exhibited year after year through the endless controversy that has unjustifiably dogged the club during his time I would be thrilled to see him be part of premiership team at another club.

I suspect the Swans have a few more million stashed under their bed that could be used to lure him to Sydney.

[The OtherThommo]

Here's 1 of the counter arguments, and I'm with Jake;

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/u ... 2v1a1.html

I also recall this article from early June. Amid Roo's intelligent and self aware comments in the article, there is 1 standout line that stayed with me;

"Playing in a premiership is not the secret to a long, happy life post-football," he says.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/n ... z2gsu03khH

The whole article is worth reading for an appreciation of why Roo doesn't need to leave us, to seek a premiership medal, to be fulfilled. He's too smart to be 1 dimensional. I honestly believe he will attain higher personal satisfaction from maintaining his ultra professional standards in his last years, and aiding the transition, at his 1 AFL Club.

[kell]

The problem with jakes argument is that it implies that Roo is bigger than the club. The club should not NEED him. The club should be able to move on even if Roo did leave. That is way a strong organisation would deal with it. Eg Hawks - Buddy. You get the impression they are almost strengthened rather than weakened by his departure.

I have no doubt Roo doesn't need a premiership to be whole and at peace with the universe...he's a quality bloke with a wealth of experience and talents that will guide him to success and happiness in life

[lloyd21]

Totally agree Thommo

The guy really understands it has already explained it several times has said a Premiership medal is not the "Panacea"
of a happy life going forward ,married to gorgeous natural woman,financially set for life.
Reality told him you only really get a couple shots at the flag , so is content to show the young guys how to prepare &
more importantly conduct themselves as professional footballers & members of the club.
Does not mean he does not want to win every game he plays in the future.

[The OtherThommo]

The problem with jakes argument is that it implies that Roo is bigger than the club. The club should not NEED him. The club should be able to move on even if Roo did leave. That is way a strong organisation would deal with it. Eg Hawks - Buddy. You get the impression they are almost strengthened rather than weakened by his departure.

I have no doubt Roo doesn't need a premiership to be whole and at peace with the universe...he's a quality bloke with a wealth of experience and talents that will guide him to success and happiness in life

Again, kell, I agree with Niall. He doesn't compare Roo with Franklin, he compares him to Hodge, which, to me, is the better comparison. Franklin might have been the spectacular face of the Dorks, but Hodge is the football and leadership face. Franklin might deliver marketing awe, but Hodge delivers respect - that's what Roo does for us (as does Lenny).

And, it's a lot easier for a premier to cover for the loss of a key, than it is a side struggling to recover from an unbalanced list.

[Eastern]

I thought BOTH articles spoke "Volumes" on what sort of a person Roo is and what sort of legacy he will leave on OUR club when his time is up. Both articles would also give the club plenty to think about with Roo when he finishes playing. I have read that he wants to spend time in the States, but I would be ensuring that he is not lost to the club and that an ambassadorial role is found for him !!

[saintsRrising]

You need to keep your franchise players to keep the "swinging voters" buying memberships and coming to games.

Someone like Dal can leave...and it will have a small negative effect.

If someone like Roo goes, then the negative effects would be huge. All those "little johnnies" will instead of pulling on a St Kilda jumper, pull on the brown and gold instead as they are swayed by the Hawks current success. The Hawks in two decades are likely to be the most well supported AFL club in Australia.

In about 20 years time a new bulge of supporters will be going to games in the AL...and there will be more Hawk and cat fans than every before. Their multiple premierships in the naughties having swayed a new generation of fickle kids into following them.

Missing a flag in the naughties has not just wounded our hearts as fans, but will have wounded the future health of the Saints with the thousands of next generation kids who have been lost to picking us as their team in their formative years.

Losing someone like Roo would just make it worse. Morseo after BJ and Dal have both left...and a favourite like Milne has retired. The task of a St Kilda parent to have a young child adopt the Saints next year is going to be a hard one. having Roo running around makes it a lot easier.

[Dis Believer]

There is no argument for Roo to leave the club.

End of discussion......

[plugger66]

There is no argument for Roo to leave the club.

End of discussion......

Are you know a mod? I hope so. We need more of them.

[ozrulestrace]

But there has to be a re-think on the captaincy.

The flapping of arms and castigating fellow team-mates botch young and old is cringeworthy and not a good look.

[plugger66]

But there has to be a re-think on the captaincy.

The flapping of arms and castigating fellow team-mates botch young and old is cringeworthy and not a good look.

I think you will be waiting at least one more season because we dont have any logical replacment. I was big on Ben but his year probably wasnt good enough to be Captain and people are even saying he maybe traded.

[suss]

What if Collingwood offer pick 10 who might be someone like NDS's cousin, who sounds like a 200 game player? Just playing Devil's Advocate, but you'd have to consider it, wouldn't you? I reckon Pelchen would.

[Dis Believer]

There is no argument for Roo to leave the club.

End of discussion......

Are you know a mod? I hope so. We need more of them.

No, I'm a rocker.

[joffaboy]

There is no argument for Roo to leave the club.

End of discussion......

Exactly my thoughts to the word TB

[Scollop]

But there has to be a re-think on the captaincy.

The flapping of arms and castigating fellow team-mates botch young and old is cringeworthy and not a good look.

I think you will be waiting at least one more season because we dont have any logical replacment. I was big on Ben but his year probably wasnt good enough to be Captain and people are even saying he maybe traded.

The obvious choice for captain in 2014 is Roo but it isn't necessarily the smart choice!! I think it's more like the 'easy' and 'lazy' choice.

Was Tom Harley the 'logical' choice for captain of Geelong?

Was Nick Maxwell the 'logical' choice for captain of Collingwood?

In hindsight, I don't think anyone could say they were bad choices or wrong choices considering the teams won premierships so maybe your logical replacement argument is more based on your 'emotional' choice.

Let's get this straight. The kiddies can still wear No 12 on their jumpers so we need to provide some learning to the next group of leaders at St Kilda. The future of the footy club is more important than Nick's and your emotions

[plugger66]

But there has to be a re-think on the captaincy.

The flapping of arms and castigating fellow team-mates botch young and old is cringeworthy and not a good look.

I think you will be waiting at least one more season because we dont have any logical replacment. I was big on Ben but his year probably wasnt good enough to be Captain and people are even saying he maybe traded.

The obvious choice for captain in 2014 is Roo but it isn't necessarily the smart choice!! I think it's more like the 'easy' and 'lazy' choice.

Was Tom Harley the 'logical' choice for captain of Geelong?

Was Nick Maxwell the 'logical' choice for captain of Collingwood?

In hindsight, I don't think anyone could say they were bad choices or wrong choices considering the teams won premierships so maybe your logical replacement argument is more based on your 'emotional' choice.

Let's get this straight. The kiddies can still wear No 12 on their jumpers so we need to provide some learning to the next group of leaders at St Kilda. The future of the footy club is more important than Nick's and your emotions

I never said it had to be the best player but it needs to be a player getting a game every week, it needs to be someone who is a good leader and someone who the players will get some inspiration off either on or off the ground. And i have no idea what the hell you are on about in the last paragraph. Anyway thanks for all that. Just one thing. You didnt give us the name of the new captain.

[Scollop]

We will always honour Plugger as one of the greatest ever Saints and history teaches us that sometimes it's in the best interests of both parties that some players move clubs. When Tony Lockett left the Saints plugger was motivated just as much by the cash as well as the opportunity to get away from the footy mad fishbowl of Melbourne.

If Roo leaves I'm positive it will only be for a chance at winning a premiership, but does Roo want to just be a premiership player, or was his greatest goal in recent years to be a premiership captain and to cement his place as a legend of St Kilda FC. Roo could have earnt the same money as he's earnt at St Kildaor ( or maybe more) if he'd made the brave decision to move to the Gold Coast and to lead the Suns.

Tony Lockett is easily the best player I have ever seen and if we can move on when a giant of our club leaves us like plugger did, then I'm certain the club will move on if Roo leaves. Personally I don't think it will happen.

[kell]

There is no argument for Roo to leave the club.

End of discussion......

There certainly is an argument. Its matter for you whether you want to exchange ideas and engage with the issue or simply try and shout down any discussion on the topic.

As to comparing Roo with Hodge, I agree they are both inspiration leaders but the Saints and Hawks are poles apart in terms of their culture, achievements and current performance. As such the comparison is meaningless.

The premise of the argument is that neither Roo nor the club are going to get any closer to a premiership if he remains. Are we strong enough as a club to make some genuinely bold decisions rather than tinkering at edges to secure a premiership or 3 ?

[suss]

There is no argument for Roo to leave the club.

End of discussion......

There certainly is an argument. Its matter for you whether you want to exchange ideas and engage with the issue or simply try and shout down any discussion on the topic.

As to comparing Roo with Hodge, I agree they are both inspiration leaders but the Saints and Hawks are poles apart in terms of their culture, achievements and current performance. As such the comparison is meaningless.

The premise of the argument is that neither Roo nor the club are going to get any closer to a premiership if he remains. Are we strong enough as a club to make some genuinely bold decisions rather than tinkering at edges to secure a premiership or 3 ?

It could be argued that Hawthorn's transformation started with getting draft picks for Nathan Thompson and Jon Hay. Both were traded while they still had currency and their club didn't implode - quite the opposite.

[plugger66]

There is no argument for Roo to leave the club.

End of discussion......

There certainly is an argument. Its matter for you whether you want to exchange ideas and engage with the issue or simply try and shout down any discussion on the topic.

As to comparing Roo with Hodge, I agree they are both inspiration leaders but the Saints and Hawks are poles apart in terms of their culture, achievements and current performance. As such the comparison is meaningless.

The premise of the argument is that neither Roo nor the club are going to get any closer to a premiership if he remains. Are we strong enough as a club to make some genuinely bold decisions rather than tinkering at edges to secure a premiership or 3 ?

To me it gets down to getting around pick 20 for Roo or keeping a champion of the club at our club for life. I think the benefit of loyalty outways pick 20 and by a fair way.

[kell]

There is no argument for Roo to leave the club.

End of discussion......

There certainly is an argument. Its matter for you whether you want to exchange ideas and engage with the issue or simply try and shout down any discussion on the topic.

As to comparing Roo with Hodge, I agree they are both inspiration leaders but the Saints and Hawks are poles apart in terms of their culture, achievements and current performance. As such the comparison is meaningless.

The premise of the argument is that neither Roo nor the club are going to get any closer to a premiership if he remains. Are we strong enough as a club to make some genuinely bold decisions rather than tinkering at edges to secure a premiership or 3 ?

To me it gets down to getting around pick 20 for Roo or keeping a champion of the club at our club for life. I think the benefit of loyalty outways pick 20 and by a fair way.[/

That is certainly a strong reason for keeping him at the club. However, has our love and loyalty to champions exposed out Achilles heal? Are we too afraid to make the bold decisions rather hanging on to the past in the hope that one day the stars will align and luck will come our way rather than making our own luck? Fortune favours the brave!

[plugger66]

There certainly is an argument. Its matter for you whether you want to exchange ideas and engage with the issue or simply try and shout down any discussion on the topic.

As to comparing Roo with Hodge, I agree they are both inspiration leaders but the Saints and Hawks are poles apart in terms of their culture, achievements and current performance. As such the comparison is meaningless.

The premise of the argument is that neither Roo nor the club are going to get any closer to a premiership if he remains. Are we strong enough as a club to make some genuinely bold decisions rather than tinkering at edges to secure a premiership or 3 ?

To me it gets down to getting around pick 20 for Roo or keeping a champion of the club at our club for life. I think the benefit of loyalty outways pick 20 and by a fair way.[/

That is certainly a strong reason for keeping him at the club. However, has our love and loyalty to champions exposed out Achilles heal? Are we too afraid to make the bold decisions rather hanging on to the past in the hope that one day the stars will align and luck will come our way rather than making our own luck? Fortune favours the brave!

Can you name any club who has traded a player like Rooy. One who has been the leader for 6 years, best 5 players in the clubs history and the face of the club for many years?

[kell]

Please excuse the quote error with my previous post... I'm not very good at piloting an iPad

[kell]

I don't see the relevance of identifying a player with a precise record of Roo. However, there are numerous instances of champions being traded and both parties continuing their success

[plugger66]

I don't see the relevance of identifying a player with a precise record of Roo. However, there are numerous instances of champions being traded and both parties continuing their success

I obviously dont expect someone with the precise record of Rooy but long term club leader and great of the club wouldnt be traded to ofter if at all.