Saints seek stability to end rough off-season

[slider]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-08/s ... -stability

[philtee]

Interesting paragraphs -

"At the heart of Thompson's review is the way Watters’ football department is run.
While AFL.com.au is in no way suggesting Watters’ position is in immediate jeopardy,
it's understood the review will recommend he make some specific changes to his approach.
There have been murmurings of discontent at the Seaford based club for most of the year,
although no one is prepared to go public and for obvious reasons."

By the way...has anyone else heard Mark Williams' name in connection with all of this ?

[Munga]

He probably needs better assistants and tacticians?

[SemperFidelis]

I though this interesting too; I think it is the first time I've seen it expressly stated that Watters is in the pro-Dal camp (although admittedly the somewhat mixed messages on this issue were starting to look that way).

"As it stands there appears to be disagreement within the St Kilda camp on what the Dal Santo move should look like. Watters wants the 29-year-old to stay, the list management team disagrees."

[mullet]

We will not go forward until everyone is on the same page. Extremely frustrating for supporters. When the hell will we act like a professional club. It is a choice , not our lot in life. FFS STKFC stop the in fighting and get on with being a successful club.

[slider]

seems to be a lot of me me me down there.

Who gets to make the final call on Dal? is it the coach? the football director or the club?

My opinion for what its worth is that the coach has the final call.

[dragit]

seems to be a lot of me me me down there.

Who gets to make the final call on Dal? is it the coach? the football director or the club?

My opinion for what its worth is that the coach has the final call.

I don't see the point in having a highly paid recruitment and list management team that spend all year planning for these decisions, to then have the coach over-ride them.

Is it just PR fluff, the club saying that the coach wants to keep "favourite son X"?

Sounds like they don't want supporter backlash directed at the coach to me…

[slider]

The recruitment and list management team are employed to find the best available talent for the coach and assistant coaches to work with. The coach calls the shots on game day on which cattle is on the field, he should also have the right of final reply as to whom he coaches, relaying who and what he needs to the recruitment staff and they go out and try and find the best they can and make the best deals possible on draft days.

Is Dal staying at the Saints? i personally think its a done deal hes gone, its the sorting of the exact deal thats delaying it.

[dragit]

The recruitment and list management team are employed to find the best available talent for the coach and assistant coaches to work with. The coach calls the shots on game day on which cattle is on the field, he should also have the right of final reply as to whom he coaches, relaying who and what he needs to the recruitment staff and they go out and try and find the best they can and make the best deals possible on draft days.

Is Dal staying at the Saints? i personally think its a done deal hes gone, its the sorting of the exact deal thats delaying it.

trent
dennis
lane

[Kickit]

seems to be a lot of me me me down there.

Who gets to make the final call on Dal? is it the coach? the football director or the club?

My opinion for what its worth is that the coach has the final call.

I don't see the point in having a highly paid recruitment and list management team that spend all year planning for these decisions, to then have the coach over-ride them.

Is it just PR fluff, the club saying that the coach wants to keep "favourite son X"?

Sounds like they don't want supporter backlash directed at the coach to me…

Supporter and/or player.
Lets keep the coach as the good guy while Pelchen is quite happy to be the bad guy.

[Con Gorozidis]

seems to be a lot of me me me down there.

Who gets to make the final call on Dal? is it the coach? the football director or the club?

My opinion for what its worth is that the coach has the final call.

I don't see the point in having a highly paid recruitment and list management team that spend all year planning for these decisions, to then have the coach over-ride them.

Is it just PR fluff, the club saying that the coach wants to keep "favourite son X"?

Sounds like they don't want supporter backlash directed at the coach to me…

We have only had a proper recruitment department the last 2 years - but i totally agree - and this goes for all clubs.
The recruitment should be 100% separate from the Coach. Total conflict of interest and it is shown in the past coaches often make sh*t short term decisions or ones where they over-rate guys they have a relationship with/used to coach.

Coaches should be told to take a nice relaxing holiday in October.

[degruch]

An article about stability within the club, finishing off with 'but everyone want to ditch a long term player, except the coach'? Weird. Everyone knows about unrest at Seaford but no-one's prepared to talk about it 'for obvious reasons'? Dense. A nothing article.

[Johnny Member]

There is a deadset critical link between a style of play that a coach wants to implement - and the players on his list to carry it out.


A coach gets hired because he has a blueprint for how he wants the team to play. Unless he dictates who the players on the list are that he works with - how can he guarantee the way the team will play?


I find it bizarre that the head coach doesn't have the major say in list management. He shouldn't be bothered with contracts and their pay - but he should definitely be able to declare who stays and who goes.

And leading in to a draft, he should be the one who tells the recruiters what to get. Not 'who' to get, but 'what' to get.


It's not F1 where a driver is a professional and he simply jumps in and drives the car he's given. Or like jockeys who get a horse prepared by a trainer and they hop and ride it as best they can.


A coach devises a strategy, and teaches his team to do it. He needs certain types of players to ensure it gets carried out correctly - otherwise the coach can't guarantee his plan will work.

[Johnny Member]

It's almost back to front.

It's like a jockey going to a trainer and telling him to prepare his horse a certain way so he can ride it better. It just doesn't, and couldn't work like that!


A 'List Manager' telling the head coach what players he is going to coach is just wrong I reckon.

[WinnersOnly]

Mr Watters had a say in bringing Maister and TDL to the club - I agree with the club in taking that role away from the coach. Lyon interfered way too much and it appeared that Watters was wanting to interfere as well!

[Johnny Member]

Mr Watters had a say in bringing Maister and TDL to the club - I agree with the club in taking that role away from the coach. Lyon interfered way too much and it appeared that Watters was wanting to interfere as well!

I reckon that's fine though. the coach lives and dies by winning or losing. If he recruits duds - then the team is going to lose and he will get the arse. If Pelchin recruits dudes and the team loses - who is accountable for that?

There needs to be 'list management' decisions made at higher levels in terms of a strategy (ie. certain age, no dickheads, no trading top 10 draft picks, etc.) but aside from those high level guidelines - if a coach wants someone because he thinks they will be able to play a role within his team and implement his style of play effectively, then I absolutely think he should be able to get them.

[plugger66]

Mr Watters had a say in bringing Maister and TDL to the club - I agree with the club in taking that role away from the coach. Lyon interfered way too much and it appeared that Watters was wanting to interfere as well!

I reckon that's fine though. the coach lives and dies by winning or losing. If he recruits duds - then the team is going to lose and he will get the arse. If Pelchin recruits dudes and the team loses - who is accountable for that?

There needs to be 'list management' decisions made at higher levels in terms of a strategy (ie. certain age, no dickheads, no trading top 10 draft picks, etc.) but aside from those high level guidelines - if a coach wants someone because he thinks they will be able to play a role within his team and implement his style of play effectively, then I absolutely think he should be able to get them.

Every single coach in the AFL would have a say in players recruited from other clubs and so they must. They also must leave the recruitment of draftees completely alone. None of their business unless the recruiter says we have 2 players of equal ability in his opinion.

[Kickit]

If I was organising the work, the trading process would be along the lines of.

Coach produces list of player types he would like.
Meeting with Coach, Recruitment and Head of footy.
Head of footy decides if coach wish list is in line with overall direction and needs of club.
Recruitment goes away with vetted list.

List of trade targets produced and distributed to interested parties.
Coach and head of footy bone up on said players - list of pro-s and cons.
Maybe the coach should have veto rights on individuals ( not sure ).

Head of footy makes the overall decision.
Sometimes my recruiters will get shitty because the head of footy didn't go with the player they selected.
Sometimes the coach will get shitty because he didn't get the player he wanted or gets a player he didn't want, or has to trade someone he didn't want to trade.
Sometimes the head of footy is shitty because the coach and recruiters don't see things eye to eye with him.

That's business. Get it done then all parties move on and go to the pub.

[starsign]

Coaches should be told to take a nice relaxing holiday in October.

A lot of merit in that suggestion I think Con, particularly if he is not totally on the same page as recruitment management who get paid to look at the big picture.
Overall I dont like the sounds of it, and one would think that his tenure may become short if he is swimming against the Pelicans tide
We can all see merits on both sides of a Dal move, the arguements for him staying pretty obvious, while benifits gained from departure unsure to weigh up at this stage. With the Roos It looks like our best hope of maximum return would come from waiting and putting him up as out of contract which then prolongs the issue. It's not a good scenario then and is adding fuel to their fire unfortunately!
I feel Watters has obviously made his point, and now should sit back and let Pelican handle this one, as ultimately the Pelican has the ultimate responsibility for the decision... one would hope!

[maverick]

Nothing wrong with disagreement, would be hardly surprising given we can't agree on here.
FWIW, I think they should agree a band for DP's and potential players and leave it there, if the agreed value of Dal is met, he goes, if not he stays...

I think a pick better than our second round or a B grade player we could use (say 23-26) plus a pick in the late 20's would be good enough.

Dal is not the right player to give away IMO.

[stinger]

I though this interesting too; I think it is the first time I've seen it expressly stated that Watters is in the pro-Dal camp (although admittedly the somewhat mixed messages on this issue were starting to look that way).

"As it stands there appears to be disagreement within the St Kilda camp on what the Dal Santo move should look like. Watters wants the 29-year-old to stay, the list management team disagrees."

first time i have seen this in print...i'm with watters.....

[HitTheBoundary]

How much of this is a reaction to the perceived Lyon approach - i.e. no future planning.
Have we now gone to the other extreme?

I think in theory the list management team should decide, but it's Watters who'll get the sack if the team he's given doesn't perform. I can understand that causing friction.

[Teflon]

He probably needs better assistants and tacticians?

I agree he does

See Dons /North into Tudor..... why aren't we??

[maverick]

He probably needs better assistants and tacticians?

I agree he does

See Dons /North into Tudor..... why aren't we??

Tudor's very savvy, goes where the cream is, not the right time at the Saints, may join us in 2 years as senior coach

[Con Gorozidis]

He probably needs better assistants and tacticians?

I agree he does

See Dons /North into Tudor..... why aren't we??

I think he has already committed

1. Senior job
2. If no Senior Job then he has already agreed to be Asst at North