Positives

[SainterK]

Wright continued to show he can play
Webster did some silky things, reminds me of dal
Gears should continue to make a show in the midfield, I liked his half of footy in and around the contest
Super goals are not real, and that kind of amplified lead shift will always see young guys drop their head
Armo wasn't a positive, but I thought it won't hurt him to live with a tag and need to work harder
Jones may of had his best kick ever

[gringo]

Saunders, Rucks, Savage, Dunstan, Schnides playing with out injuring himself, Rooey -there were some there just a horrible score line.

[Junior]

Hickey and Longer winning the hit outs, although not sure how we can play both.

Tom Lees goal kicking.

Jimmy Webster, hard at it and like a good player has clean hands and time with the footy.

Nathan Wright, tough and providing run

Josh Saunders finding a bit of the ball

Luke Dunstan, disposal efficiency down but his contested football and clearance work for a kid was out of this world.

[Con Gorozidis]

A few positives surprisingly enough.

Dunstan is the ready to go player we all thought/hoped for.

Wright,Newnes, Saunders and Webster all look capable and up to standard.

Longer and Hickey look capable and will be up to standard.

Savage works hard and is up to it.

Lee is a good footballer but needs some time to bulk up after his shoulder op.

So thats 9 youngsters + Jack = 10.

Only 12 to go and we have 4 years! Not too bad really.

[Bernard Shakey]

We now have two effective ruckmen!

Dunstan is a player!

Lee can kick goals, now all he needs to do is get a tank!

[gringo]

We now have two effective ruckmen!

Dunstan is a player!

Lee can kick goals, now all he needs to do is get a tank!

I'm pretty sure Lee will be worth the wait. He needs some confidence and he will be a gun. His body hasn't let him play properly yet but watch out when it does.

[Spinner]

Dunstan, Webster, Longer.



And let's be honest - we are a few number 1 draft picks away from competing with teams like GC and GWS when we enter our prime.

Therefore, looks like we are right on track.

[Zed]

Dunstan is going to be very good player for us
Webster looked more composed and progressing nicely
Saunders provides great run and carry
Lee must shoot for goal every set shot opportunity he gets

[spert]

Looks to me like our midfield is below standard and basically needs get a whole lot more of the ball- that will be our biggest problem this season and will be the reason we will struggle to win any games sadly.

[SainterK]

Looks to me like our midfield is below standard and basically needs get a whole lot more of the ball- that will be our biggest problem this season and will be the reason we will struggle to win any games sadly.

May take a while to have synergy between our rucks & mids.

Our guys are used to sharking the other ruckman, we are winning our fair share of taps now, they will soon work out a pattern hopefully.

[plugger66]

Looks to me like our midfield is below standard and basically needs get a whole lot more of the ball- that will be our biggest problem this season and will be the reason we will struggle to win any games sadly.

May take a while to have synergy between our rucks & mids.

Our guys are used to sharking the other ruckman, we are winning our fair share of taps now, they will soon work out a pattern hopefully.

Do people really think hit outs matter? Last year only one side in the top 6 for hit outs made the 8. If our ruckman get kicks around the ground and take a few contested marks then they will be valuable. And if we havent got synergy with the mids and rucks by now then we have wasted the pre season. I think our real problem in the middle is pretty simple. Steven, Dal and Hayes and Joey getting older.

[chook23]

Looks to me like our midfield is below standard and basically needs get a whole lot more of the ball- that will be our biggest problem this season and will be the reason we will struggle to win any games sadly.

May take a while to have synergy between our rucks & mids.

Our guys are used to sharking the other ruckman, we are winning our fair share of taps now, they will soon work out a pattern hopefully.

Do people really think hit outs matter? Last year only one side in the top 6 for hit outs made the 8. If our ruckman get kicks around the ground and take a few contested marks then they will be valuable. And if we havent got synergy with the mids and rucks by now then we have wasted the pre season. I think our real problem in the middle is pretty simple. Steven, Dal and Hayes and Joey getting older.

Given who you have named Plugger66 age maybe taking hold of you.

[gringo]

Looks to me like our midfield is below standard and basically needs get a whole lot more of the ball- that will be our biggest problem this season and will be the reason we will struggle to win any games sadly.

May take a while to have synergy between our rucks & mids.

Our guys are used to sharking the other ruckman, we are winning our fair share of taps now, they will soon work out a pattern hopefully.

Do people really think hit outs matter? Last year only one side in the top 6 for hit outs made the 8. If our ruckman get kicks around the ground and take a few contested marks then they will be valuable. And if we havent got synergy with the mids and rucks by now then we have wasted the pre season. I think our real problem in the middle is pretty simple. Steven, Dal and Hayes and Joey getting older.

Joey's age isn't so concerning to me he is still very high output and started late so should play until about 32 33 at least barring catastrophe. Losing Dal was always going to leave a big hole but we will be more likely to uncover the next Dal by spreading the the amount of high picks wider.

Hitouts to true advantage are a massive help to midfielders. The loss of Gardiner and King was probably the biggest change in our performance. With those two we were playing a much better brand of footy than with a junior Mc Evoy on his own.

[plugger66]

May take a while to have synergy between our rucks & mids.

Our guys are used to sharking the other ruckman, we are winning our fair share of taps now, they will soon work out a pattern hopefully.

Do people really think hit outs matter? Last year only one side in the top 6 for hit outs made the 8. If our ruckman get kicks around the ground and take a few contested marks then they will be valuable. And if we havent got synergy with the mids and rucks by now then we have wasted the pre season. I think our real problem in the middle is pretty simple. Steven, Dal and Hayes and Joey getting older.

Joey's age isn't so concerning to me he is still very high output and started late so should play until about 32 33 at least barring catastrophe. Losing Dal was always going to leave a big hole but we will be more likely to uncover the next Dal by spreading the the amount of high picks wider.

Hitouts to true advantage are a massive help to midfielders. The loss of Gardiner and King was probably the biggest change in our performance. With those two we were playing a much better brand of footy than with a junior Mc Evoy on his own.

One side made the finals who were in the top 6 for hit outs to advantage. The other 5 sides finished in the bottom half. The loss of MG was huge because he could take a contested mark and kick an important goal. Why did Joey start late? Think he started pretty much the same time as most players., Age can catch up with you pretty quickly. He certainly isnt going to get better. Yep we may uncover another player with Dal going but i was just explaining why our mids are struggling now. There is no doubt we have the worst midfield in the AFL now especially until Jack is back. Hit outs to our ruckmen wont change that.

[gringo]

One side made the finals who were in the top 6 for hit outs to advantage. The other 5 sides finished in the bottom half. The loss of MG was huge because he could take a contested mark and kick an important goal. Why did Joey start late? Think he started pretty much the same time as most players., Age can catch up with you pretty quickly. He certainly isnt going to get better. Yep we may uncover another player with Dal going but i was just explaining why our mids are struggling now. There is no doubt we have the worst midfield in the AFL now especially until Jack is back. Hit outs to our ruckmen wont change that.

Yeah with out Jack we look pretty bad. Melbourne has made theirs look better with some older guys coming in but they are still a little weak. Their kids are a little more advanced than ours. Bulldog were lucky Libba and Wallace came cheap and Kobe Stevens was a steal.

The hitouts to advantage is not measured very accurately like contested possessions. A guy like Clarke Keating who could smash the ball forward to advantage 30 meters was massive. A good ruckman can make a big difference. Big Mac really struggled to even make a contest and was a very poor ruckman and lost some around the ground impact. Longer and Hickey both look raw but probably offer a bit more quality in the ruck and have been looking pretty good around the ground.

[plugger66]

One side made the finals who were in the top 6 for hit outs to advantage. The other 5 sides finished in the bottom half. The loss of MG was huge because he could take a contested mark and kick an important goal. Why did Joey start late? Think he started pretty much the same time as most players., Age can catch up with you pretty quickly. He certainly isnt going to get better. Yep we may uncover another player with Dal going but i was just explaining why our mids are struggling now. There is no doubt we have the worst midfield in the AFL now especially until Jack is back. Hit outs to our ruckmen wont change that.

Yeah with out Jack we look pretty bad. Melbourne has made theirs look better with some older guys coming in but they are still a little weak. Their kids are a little more advanced than ours. Bulldog were lucky Libba and Wallace came cheap and Kobe Stevens was a steal.

The hitouts to advantage is not measured very accurately like contested possessions. A guy like Clarke Keating who could smash the ball forward to advantage 30 meters was massive. A good ruckman can make a big difference. Big Mac really struggled to even make a contest and was a very poor ruckman and lost some around the ground impact. Longer and Hickey both look raw but probably offer a bit more quality in the ruck and have been looking pretty good around the ground.

You must work for champion data because I certainly have no idea how hit outs to advantage are measured. i should have realise there was a reason 5 out of the top6 sides didnt make the 8. Have no idea what the keating thing means. Are you saying that wouldnt be a hit out to advantage? As for Ben I liked him as a ruckman so Im not going to change my mind on that. Hopefully one of Longer or Hickey can have impact around the ground. The real problem I see is how the hell can both play. I cant possibly see how it works.

[spert]

I'm encouraged by Longer and Hickey and they will contribute nicely for us, but the problem is when the ball hits the ground..we have no quality in the midfield- second to the ball, or nowhere near it, or cough it up too easy- one of the reasons we lagged in possessions last season and looks like a similar tale again this season. Even in practice matches we need to see structure and form ready for the real thing

[ROLS-LEE]

All grand final winning teams bar hawks in 08 and last year, won with a dominate ruckmen or two since I can remember.

[plugger66]

All grand final winning teams bar hawks in 08 and last year, won with a dominate ruckmen or two since I can remember.

Last year? Yep dominate around the ground. Hit outs mean nothing as pproven by the stats I keep mentioning and people keep ignoring because they have no answer to that.

By the way maybe you can tell me how both our ruckmen play in the same side because I cant work it out.

[Dis Believer]

All grand final winning teams bar hawks in 08 and last year, won with a dominate ruckmen or two since I can remember.

Last year? Yep dominate around the ground. Hit outs mean nothing as pproven by the stats I keep mentioning and people keep ignoring because they have no answer to that.

By the way maybe you can tell me how both our ruckmen play in the same side because I cant work it out.

The impression I got from comments I heard in the media was that our coaches think they can train Longer to play forward, so Hickey as number 1 ruck and Longer as a forward and relieving ruck. I have no idea hoe long they think this will take. I assume a couple of seasons at least.

[saintsRrising]

I think our real problem in the middle is pretty simple. Steven, Dal and Hayes and Joey getting older.

The last three names make sense. But Steven getting older is actually a plus. He is entering his prime.

However what you perhaps were trying to say, but didn't was that our real problem is that we simply do not ave enough quality mids,

Even when we were recently at the top of the ladder we were light on for mids. But we had some superb ones.

Right here and now we have:

Steven: Injured!!! But should be elite when he plays.

Joey: Still very good. Quality

But then a big drop off.

Armo is a good steady depth mid, that can do some hard bullocking work.

Lenny will still add leadership, but is getting on.

Savage will add some depth as a HFF who rotates through the midfield. Ditto for Schneider, but will he stop getting injured?

Curren may make it.

Newnes and Saunders show a bit, but who may never be more than support cast. Time will tell.

Then we have a number of promising kids who are showing good signs, but who are mainly young and not their yet.

That some think Geary will be a mid for us, is not a sign of Geary actually being a good midfielder (for he is not- he is a never say die hardnut), but rather it is an indication of how dismal our midfield stocks really are at present.


So all in all
We currently have 2 genuine mids that if at a better team would definitely get games. Several that may. Unfortunately as the midfeld is the engine room of any team that means that a wooden spoon is beckoning. It is between us and the Dees at present.

[plugger66]

I actually meant yesterday the problem was Steven and dal not being there and the other 2 getting older.

[ROLS-LEE]

All grand final winning teams bar hawks in 08 and last year, won with a dominate ruckmen or two since I can remember.

Last year? Yep dominate around the ground. Hit outs mean nothing as pproven by the stats I keep mentioning and people keep ignoring because they have no answer to that.

By the way maybe you can tell me how both our ruckmen play in the same side because I cant work it out.

The two years that i mentioned is an exception to the rule plugs. Name another team that won one without one or two good ruckmen

[fingers]

We now have two effective ruckmen!

Dunstan is a player!

Lee can kick goals, now all he needs to do is get a tank!

I'm pretty sure Lee will be worth the wait. He needs some confidence and he will be a gun. His body hasn't let him play properly yet but watch out when it does.

I think you're right. How long did it take Hawkins?

[plugger66]

All grand final winning teams bar hawks in 08 and last year, won with a dominate ruckmen or two since I can remember.

Last year? Yep dominate around the ground. Hit outs mean nothing as pproven by the stats I keep mentioning and people keep ignoring because they have no answer to that.

By the way maybe you can tell me how both our ruckmen play in the same side because I cant work it out.

The two years that i mentioned is an exception to the rule plugs. Name another team that won one without one or two good ruckmen

I have never said ruckmen arent important. Not once. What i have said is hit outs either to advantage or not are the most overated stat in footy as proven by the fact that only one team in the top 6 for those stats made the finals last year. And the days of 2 ruckmen are over. Well at least at the moment. if the second ruckman cant play at least 50% of the game as a key forward then he cant play. Would like you to tell me how we use 2 ruckmen in the same side.