Observations this week

[plugger66]

thought the idea of making the game a close in non skilled game worked out well for most of the first half. it was well coached IMO but we lack that much ability we were still found out by a big margin in the end. Now the players.

Lenny. A real purple patch ot do we just lack that much depth that he looks our best player.
Rooy. If only he was in a good side. Kicking like plugger and not dropping anything
Steven. much better game. Still confident by the end of the year he will be back to his best.
Saunders. great first half. Hopefully can get more consistant
Dunstan. Just keeps getting the ball. lack kicking skills and pace but can play
Lee. Surprised me early but needs to work so much harder. Second half wasnt good and is very slow. Still he showed a bit
Bruce. Still like him just dont know why
Delaney. he was ok
Dempster. thought he was our best back
Simpkin. Never play forward again. heaps of pressure, no posessions. Back or Sandt
Billings Not enough time on ground. Nearly resting time for im
Longer He has a long way to go smashed tonight
Ray and Jones. Its nearly time to go. Nearly dont see the point. At least one must go this week
Dunell. Given a chance and may get one more but he isnt an AFL player
Shenton. Found out tonight but still deserves a game or two more. cant play on talls
Ross. Was ok. Not sure what he offers though.
Newns Got a lot of the ball but his kicking isnt great. needs to work on that
Joey. No idea whats happened to him but his last few weeks have been poor for a guy with his ability. Needs to lift.
Murdoch Was ok on wingard consideringt what he did once he went on the ball. That guy is a freak.

Thought we were ok early tonight but our skills are terrible. We need a huge influx of quality players. Still have no idea where our next win comes from.

[maverick]

On Lenny, the rest ARE that bad.
Harsh on Simpkin, he had little hope in our forward line….

[plugger66]

On Lenny, the rest ARE that bad.
Harsh on Simpkin, he had little hope in our forward line….

Maybe but he has never played that role much if ever at all. lee got it, Rooy got it. I like Tom but he aint a forward and just smashing players and packs doesnt work. Also forgot Milera. Ok when a forward but isnt a backman ever.

[Cairnsman]

Yeah Simpkin needs a few in a row, deserves a few in a row.

Agree we need more players with skill, the list of keepers for 2014 is looking skinny right at this moment but there is still a big chunk of the season to play out yet.

In the mean time we will have to listen to the incessant disussion about polish and pace.

[Cairnsman]

On Lenny, the rest ARE that bad.
Harsh on Simpkin, he had little hope in our forward line….

Maybe but he has never played that role much if ever at all. lee got it, Rooy got it. I like Tom but he aint a forward and just smashing players and packs doesnt work. Also forgot Milera. Ok when a forward but isnt a backman ever.

Milera doesn't do enough to keep it in the forward line...just don't think he can. Flashy but flimsy.

[plugger66]

On Lenny, the rest ARE that bad.
Harsh on Simpkin, he had little hope in our forward line….

Maybe but he has never played that role much if ever at all. lee got it, Rooy got it. I like Tom but he aint a forward and just smashing players and packs doesnt work. Also forgot Milera. Ok when a forward but isnt a backman ever.

Milera doesn't do enough to keep it in the forward line...just don't think he can. Flashy but flimsy.

Dont disagree. he wont be a Saints player in a good side. I said to mate here its not a bad idea trying him back. His reply made more sense than my comment. he said why, he will never play back in a good side so is a waste of time. had to agree and then grab another beer.

[maverick]

On Lenny, the rest ARE that bad.
Harsh on Simpkin, he had little hope in our forward line….

Maybe but he has never played that role much if ever at all. lee got it, Rooy got it. I like Tom but he aint a forward and just smashing players and packs doesnt work. Also forgot Milera. Ok when a forward but isnt a backman ever.

Milera doesn't do enough to keep it in the forward line...just don't think he can. Flashy but flimsy.

Dont disagree. he wont be a Saints player in a good side. I said to mate here its not a bad idea trying him back. His reply made more sense than my comment. he said why, he will never play back in a good side so is a waste of time. had to agree and then grab another beer.

I disagree, in a good side he would be ok i reckon, not back though...

[8856brother]

Not sure how much cred your observations can be given Tugga. You also observed that 3 of our first 4 goals came from free kicks.Clearly we watched 2 different games.

[plugger66]

Not sure how much cred your observations can be given Tugga. You also observed that 3 of our first 4 goals came from free kicks.Clearly we watched 2 different games.

Please dont lie. You dont have to like or even read what I wrote but dont lie. I said 2 and it was clearly one. I then said I was wrong by one goal. Yep no one has to read my rubbish but no one needs to lie either. Why would I even care who reads it. I dont make money on it.

[mullet]

Not sure how much cred your observations can be given Tugga. You also observed that 3 of our first 4 goals came from free kicks.Clearly we watched 2 different games.

why? seriously. trying to read a thread with some opinions on the state of our team and you start this rubbish. go away

[whiskers3614]

On Lenny, the rest ARE that bad.
Harsh on Simpkin, he had little hope in our forward line….

Maybe but he has never played that role much if ever at all. lee got it, Rooy got it. I like Tom but he aint a forward and just smashing players and packs doesnt work. Also forgot Milera. Ok when a forward but isnt a backman ever.

Milera doesn't do enough to keep it in the forward line...just don't think he can. Flashy but flimsy.

Dont disagree. he wont be a Saints player in a good side. I said to mate here its not a bad idea trying him back. His reply made more sense than my comment. he said why, he will never play back in a good side so is a waste of time. had to agree and then grab another beer.

Long time ago Barry Lawrence came from Tassie as a forward, found his form in a back pocket and went forward again.
Having said that I don't think Milera will ever be Barry Lawrence!

[plugger66]

On Lenny, the rest ARE that bad.
Harsh on Simpkin, he had little hope in our forward line….

Maybe but he has never played that role much if ever at all. lee got it, Rooy got it. I like Tom but he aint a forward and just smashing players and packs doesnt work. Also forgot Milera. Ok when a forward but isnt a backman ever.

Milera doesn't do enough to keep it in the forward line...just don't think he can. Flashy but flimsy.

Dont disagree. he wont be a Saints player in a good side. I said to mate here its not a bad idea trying him back. His reply made more sense than my comment. he said why, he will never play back in a good side so is a waste of time. had to agree and then grab another beer.

Long time ago Barry Lawrence came from Tassie as a forward, found his form in a back pocket and went forward again.
Having said that I don't think Milera will ever be Barry Lawrence!

No they have different surnames.

[BigMart]

Thought Lenny was a tryer tonight, not great by any stretch. Yes he was our best mid, making him the 6th best mid on the night.

My observation

With our disposal Allowing a spare man to nullify and dictate from the back was a bit silly.... Our spare back was rendered useless by their fwd entries
Better off having an extra mid (or even better an even forward of the ball contest) to help rather than a spare witches hat sitting inside D50?

Not sure why that tactic was employed.... Perhaps better against Geelong, Collingwood with one dimensional forward lines but Gray, Winguard and Westhoff are moving targets. This allowed them to employ the same tactic with better effect, because Nick is nullified and our midfield kicking is not as potent.

Dempster had his worse game since he was at Sydney where he hardly got a kick.

Newnes has lost his kicking technique or something, his ball drop is like Grams ATM

Lobbe is a dominant Ruckman and taught Longer a lesson, Billy has lost all confidence... Less ready than I thought. Having said that Lobbe would be AA right now.

We need to clear the decks wrt our line coaches... Our ability to structure defensively, in transition and offensively is poor. Players are making too many poor decisions... Due to lack of options, lack of system, lack of structure .... This doesn't help with poor skills.

[PurpleHayes]

Thought Lee actually played the fwd/ruck role well.
At 195cm he's very mobile and if he plays that role he will offer more around the ground than most.
Is he better in that role than Stanley???

Longer was a worry - he doesn't look 'unco' but all he can do is tap the ball and offers very little around the ground. Luckily still plenty of time for him to improve. He's practically the exact opposite of McEvoy funnily enough.

Roo and Lenny - don't really need to say much. Champions. That'll both go round again IMO.

If armo comes back next week - in for jones or ray for mine.
Just need to be careful we retain experience in the side given all our injuries. Can't just throw the kids to the wolves even more than at present.

[SainterK]

Armo in for jones, my observation.

[saintspremiers]

Yeah Simpkin needs a few in a row, deserves a few in a row.

Agree we need more players with skill, the list of keepers for 2014 is looking skinny right at this moment but there is still a big chunk of the season to play out yet.

In the mean time we will have to listen to the incessant disussion about polish and pace.

Don't stress. We should delete 8ish playerd this year and a few again at the end of next.

Roll on 2016...

[8856brother]

Not sure how much cred your observations can be given Tugga. You also observed that 3 of our first 4 goals came from free kicks.Clearly we watched 2 different games.

Please dont lie. You dont have to like or even read what I wrote but dont lie. I said 2 and it was clearly one. I then said I was wrong by one goal. Yep no one has to read my rubbish but no one needs to lie either. Why would I even care who reads it. I dont make money on it.

P66 states - "This will be popular. If a 50 is a free we have 3 goals out of 4 from frees and they have one out of 7. The holding the ball looked wrong to me."

Above is your post from the match day thread clearly stating we had 3 of our first 4 goals from either frees or 50's. Our first and only 4 goals for the first half, as I recall, were as follows.

Roo took a mark, gets 50 and kicks a goal
Roo took a mark and kicked a goal
Saunders took a mark and kicked a goal
Milera kicks goal in general play

0 free kicks, One 50m penalty

You have called me a liar 4 times in the above post.

And sorry Mullet for taking a Plugger thread off topik. Irony at it's finest.

[kosifantutti]

Not sure how much cred your observations can be given Tugga. You also observed that 3 of our first 4 goals came from free kicks.Clearly we watched 2 different games.

Please dont lie. You dont have to like or even read what I wrote but dont lie. I said 2 and it was clearly one. I then said I was wrong by one goal. Yep no one has to read my rubbish but no one needs to lie either. Why would I even care who reads it. I dont make money on it.

Don't expect anyone to read what you wrote, when you don't bother reading what you wrote.

[Johnny Favier]

I didn't see the game today, but thanks for the observations.

How did Weller go today?

[PJ]

Poor demonstration of coaching tonight. Not sure where Richo's mind was. I think Hinkley has him covered.

[Verdun66]

All the coaching greats combined in the box wouldn't have made a difference. We are 5 years of pain and development behind Port. Richo arrived very late into Pre-season if you remember, no input into the list, and none into his coaches. Let him get on with teaching and developing and we will see the fruits in 3 or so years. Patience required.

We've hit the bottom in the first uncompromised drafts in years. Let's rack a few decent picks up...get lucky with later picks and rookies, and see how we go. We are trying to fill a black hole of bad recruiting and development over 2005-2011. Maybe a longer period.

Of the young guys, Dunstan was very good, Steven good,Ross , Murdoch, Shenton , Lee, Weller were ok, flashes from other guys. Lenny and Roo great. Disappointing from the older brigade, Ray, Joey, Dempster, and Jones. Anyone who reckons Dempster was good, look at the tape. I love him, and he's allowed a poor game, but was not good in that game.

Dunell never got going, Longer battled, but Hickey comes back when he's fit. Saunders had a patch, Milera his moments. Will be interesting when a few come back from injury.

Good sides are settled, and have minimal changes. We are way off having that luxury, so no use fretting. Keep the faith, we'll get there.

[CarlD]

It didn't appear from TV viewing that we tried a man on man contest in the second half. While I accept Port is far classier outfit at this point at least it may have given them something different to think about.

I am assuming that Richo was trying to use Milera in an attempt to get better delivery out of the back half. Terry's tackling technique is not a strong suit and he gives away frees in the forward half let alone more expensive ones at the back. While he was forward he provided an option and popped up for a couple of goals and meant the Saints were not totally Roo/Lee centric. Certainly shows how useful Milney was.

[plugger66]

Poor demonstration of coaching tonight. Not sure where Richo's mind was. I think Hinkley has him covered.

Isnt that funny. I watched it with a few mates and they said the coach did a great job in the first half to make the game a scrap and it showed by how close we were just before half time then the flood gates opened. Not sure he could have done much about that. We just have some really poor or inexperienced players in our side.

[plugger66]

Not sure how much cred your observations can be given Tugga. You also observed that 3 of our first 4 goals came from free kicks.Clearly we watched 2 different games.

Please dont lie. You dont have to like or even read what I wrote but dont lie. I said 2 and it was clearly one. I then said I was wrong by one goal. Yep no one has to read my rubbish but no one needs to lie either. Why would I even care who reads it. I dont make money on it.

P66 states - "This will be popular. If a 50 is a free we have 3 goals out of 4 from frees and they have one out of 7. The holding the ball looked wrong to me."

Above is your post from the match day thread clearly stating we had 3 of our first 4 goals from either frees or 50's. Our first and only 4 goals for the first half, as I recall, were as follows.

Roo took a mark, gets 50 and kicks a goal
Roo took a mark and kicked a goal
Saunders took a mark and kicked a goal
Milera kicks goal in general play

0 free kicks, One 50m penalty

You have called me a liar 4 times in the above post.

And sorry Mullet for taking a Plugger thread off topik. Irony at it's finest.

I have to say sorry. At the time I meant 2 and thought I typed 2. Should read what I write. As you maybe able to tell after my posts suggested I meant 2 when I said I was 50% wrong and it was actually one. Again I am sorry and I hope this doesnt effect a wonderful relationship and if I get a warning for not reading what I wrote and calling you a liar so be it but i can assure you it was a genuine mistake. Sorry to you and yes Kosi you are right.

[Johnny Member]

I reckon, right now, we're the worst football side I've ever seen.


And it's clearly for 2 reasons....


Our list is awful. It's unbalanced in terms of age and experience. It's unbalanced in terms of size and pace (meaning small guys are forced to play tall, and slow guys are forced to play fast), and it lacks talent.

Some of the guys that we look at through rosé-coloured glasses as being 'talented youngsters' are actually pretty ordinary and will never be good enough to get a spot on a decent side.

The older guys such as Jones, Ray and even Dempster would usually have been forced out by younger guys. But such is the lack of talent and the age balance of the list, these guys really need to play to avoid complete and utter destruction on the scoreboard.

Dempster probably shouldn't be on my list above, as with some support he'd actually be able to play the type of role he's suited too and would probably still do it really well.


The other reason is the coaching.

Sounds like a negative? Well it's not meant to be, because I think the coaching is spot on for the long term. But in the short term, it's making us absolutely deplorable.
We can't win clearances. We can't win contests (and I'm not talking about the dodgy 'contested possession' stats). We can't kick. We make poor decisions. We can't defend unless we have 18 guys in the D50.

But we keep sticking to the structures and the 'full press' and 'sling shot' style of play. With a few years more practice and some decent players to carry it out, I think we'll be good. So full credit to the coach for looking long-term, but clearly in the short term we just aren't up to playing the way we're trying to.


Having said that, with Gwilt, Fisher, Gilbert, Hickey, Armitage, Templeton, Wright, Geary and Webster either in the team or putting pressure on, we'd be significantly better than we are now.

I don't think it's a coincidence that when Hickey and Armitage went down, we went on to get walloped for 5 weeks in a row.