The 2004 and 2005 Drafts - Foundation of Failure?

[bergholt]

There were some good players in the 2004 draft:

https://www.draftguru.com.au/years/2004

Hawthorn built a dynasty on picks 2, 5 and 7 - Roughead, Franklin, Lewis; not to mention Josh Gibson and Clinton Young who were in the rookie draft that year. Other good ones: Griffen, Deledio, Maric, Betts, Van Berlo, Morris, Grundy, Crowley, Le Cras, Pearce, Lumumba, Rosa, Monfries. Plenty of other solid ones of course, though overall not a vintage draft.

2005 probably a better year:

https://www.draftguru.com.au/years/2004

Pendlebury is top-notch; Priddis just won a Brownlow; Murphy, Thomas, Swallow, Nate Jones, Ryder, Kennedy are very good. Once again plenty of other good ones.

None of them ended up on our list. Here's a list of the guys who were on our list at some point from 2004:

trade: Aaron Fiora
pick 16: Adam Pattison (we picked him up in 2009)
pick 17: Andrew McQualter
pick 20: Dean Polo (we picked him up in 2010)
pick 33: Cain Ackland
pick 42: Jesse Smith (we picked him up in 2009)
pick 49: Mark McGough
pick 50: Jayden Attard (we picked him up in 2007)
pick 63: Jimmy Gwilt
Rookie pick 14: Luke Mullins
Rookie pick 25: Beau Maister
Rookie pick 30: Ed McDonnell

(Trent Knobel and Ben Schwarze were in the 2004 draft but that was after we'd dumped them.)

And from 2005:

trade: Fergus Watts
pick 33: Sam Gilbert
pick 47: Ryan Gamble (we picked him up in 2010)
pick 49: Michael Rix
pick 63: Phillip Raymond
pick 71: Justin Sweeney
rookie pick 14: Cathal Corr
rookie pick 30: Dylan Pfitzner
rookie pick 32: James Wall (we picked him up in 2007)
rookie pick 57: Colm Begley (we picked him up in 2008)

(Brent Guerra went to Hawthorn in the PSD that year.)

Wow. Have a look at those names. Some of a Saints supporter's worst nightmares on those lists. 22 players crossed our path from those two drafts. Maybe two of them succeed. Jimmy Gwilt wasn't without his detractors but had a very solid career, Sam Gilbert is obviously still going pretty well (when not injured).

What I find fascinating is that we kept going back for more! The players from these years kept failing and we'd replace them with someone else of about the same age who would then fail in turn.

How did we keep missing? I reckon we could have got better production from that draft year using a dartboard.

This is actually the foundation of our current predicament? Can this really be still hurting us 10 years in the future? Looks like it to me.

[bergholt]

Actually, just thinking about it, that's 22 players, enough for a side!

FB: Attard, Gwilt, Wall
HB: Raymond, Maister, Gilbert
C: Fiora, McGough, Begley
HF: McQualter, Pattison, Gamble
FF: Ackland, Watts, Sweeney
R: Rix, Smith, Polo
IC: Pfitzner, Corr, Mullins, McDonnell

What a quality team. That forward line would have been unstoppable.

[Con Gorozidis]

Good post. Who do we have in that age group? Just Ray Gilbo and Geary (and no longer Gwilt).
Disastrous recruiting really.

[remboy]

Given our first pick was 17 you couldn't expect us to pick up franklin or Roughead or Pendlebury. The biggest mistake we made across those two seasons was trading away a first, second and third round pick for players who were never going to be more than ordinary.

[Austinnn]

Or was it 2008?

From another hindsight-seeing thread of 2012:

Most St.Kilda supporters refer back to the missed drafting opportunities of 2001 - 2003 as the clubs worst recruiting blunders, but as the development of some young players progresses, 2008 is looking like the draft that is going to hurt us most.

While we did net Rhys Stanley with pick 48, and salvaged Tom Simpkin with rookie pick 29, neither is a certain starter in our best 22 at this stage, hopefully both will be an important part of our future spine.

We entered the draft with picks 13, 47, 48, 62, 74 & 83. Pick 31 had been traded to the Bulldogs for Farren Ray and pick 48, which at this point looks the right call, Jordan Roughead was taken by the Dogs at 31. Ray's value throughout the last three years probably outweighs the need for height Roughead would be currently easing.

The top ten in 2008 is proving to be excellent, Watts, Naitanui, Hill, Hartlett, Hurley, Yarran, Rich, Vickery, Ziebell, Davis. With Sidebottom at 11.

At 13 we took Tom Lynch. We got next to nothing out of him, despite limited opportunity. He may improve at the Crows, but he's a long way behind those mentioned above.

After Lynch came Mitch Brown, Schoenmakers, Blease, Shuey, Ballantyne, Jackson Trengove, Zaharakis, Jack Redden, Beams, Hannebery, Roughead, Sheils, Zac Clarke, Steven Motlop, Mitch Robinson, Todd Banfield, Liam Anthony, Matthew Broadbent and Rory Sloane. All have shown something at the top level and more than half are above average players, some even elite. Making our first pick a major fail.

At pick 47 we snapped up Stanley, can't argue with that. Immediately after at 48 we took Nick Heyne. Now while he is also still in the system, we got zero return. Following Heyne came Taylor Hunt, Jordan Lisle, Neville Jetta, Jarrad Redden and Aaron Cornelius. None are stars, but all have shown far more than Heyne.

Pick 62 was Alistair Smith and for a while he looked like he might be a good find, but in the end he played 3 games and was delisted. Pick 74 was Paul Cahill and Pick 83 was Colm Begley, they combined for one senior game. Making Stanley the only player to remain on our list, or to even play over six games. Add to that the fact that of our seven rookie picks, only Simpkin remains. That's 11 wasted picks from a draft only 3.5 years ago. Our first rookie pick was Zac Dawson who gave us three years decent service, but ultimately, he is gone now.

Players available at pick 62 were Rohan Bail, Shane Savage, Liam Jurrah, Tom Rockliff, Jordie McKenzie, Jeff Garlett, Robin Nahas, Matt De Boer, Jarryd Blair, Liam Picken, Luke Breust, Clancee Pearce, Mike Pyke and Lachlan Keefe. Even with pick 71 in the rookie draft we could have taken Greg Broughton, Sam Jacobs or Matthew Suckling!

I know a number of people will read this and say "here's just another draft rant that's so easy in hindsight" or "we picked players to fill voids on the list", but the point I'm trying to make is that the 2008 AFL draft will hurt us more than any going forward, not only because of poor selections, but because almost every club has picked up a future star or two while we missed so many great opportunities. Fourteen clubs still have four or more players from the 2008 draft on their list, we have two, equal least with Essendon, but their two are Hurley and Zaharakis. Recruiting has to be the toughest job in the AFL, but given the talent throughout the 2008 drafts, we should have done a lot better. With Pelchen now on board, we should start to see more draft success, just look at what he did for Hawthorn in that 2008 draft after they finished 1st!

Hopefully Stanley and Simpkin are the big ticks from 2008.

Players On AFL List From 2008 Draft
Adel 7 (Johnston, Lynch, McKernan, Sloane, Young, Henderson, Jacobs)
Bris 6 (Rich, Banfield, Lisle, Redden, Cornelius, Rockliff)
Carl 5 (Yarran, Robinson, Heyne, O'Keefe, Garlett)
Coll 5 (Sidebottom, Beams, Rounds, Blair, Keefe)
Ess 2 (Hurley, Zaharakis)
Frem 10 (Hill, Ballantyne, Suban, Clarke, Walters, Dawson, De Boer, Pearce, Van Berlo, Broughton)
Geel 4 (Brown, Gillies, Motlop, Hunt)
Haw 6 (Schoenmakers, Sheils, Lowden, Savage, Breust, Suckling)
Melb 8 (Watts, Blease, Strauss, Bennell, Jetta, Bail, Jurrah, McKenzie)
NM 6 (Ziebell, Wright, Anthony, Delaney, Speight, Sireakowski)
Port 6 (Hartlett, Trengove, Broadbent, Banner, Stewart, Pfeiffer)
Rich 4 (Vickery, Post, Nahas, Browne)
StK 2 (Stanley, Simpkin)
Syd 3 (Hannenbery, Heath, Pyke)
WB 4 (Cordy, Roughead, Jones, Picken)
WCE 4 (Naitanui, Shuey, Swift, Smith)

*Phil Davis was pick 10, now at GWS as skipper.

[Austinnn]

What drafts did we actually do alright in?

Could it possibly be us? Would those good players have thrived at the same way at the Saints? Would Justin Sweeney have become a star at another club? I'm just asking, I don't have enough knowledge to have a useful opinion.

[saintspremiers]

It is a statistical fact we blundered worse on drafting than any other club over that mid noughties to 2009 period.

The percentage hit rate for us was lower than any other club.

Where we also majorly forked up is not trading away some stars at the end of 2010 when the future already looked bleak.

[The Redeemer]

How is it a failure if we played finals from 2004-2011 with a few GFs and a truckload of prelims?

[scallopsroe]

With our past recruiting we have witnessed a massive fail. A failure to plan for the future, our recruiting could be summarised as short term panic gambling with no development plan for the future. I hope the current recruiting team becomes more focused on the long term in its recruiting strategy, I don't mind building if it is from a solid base and not one built on quick sand that we have seen in the past decade.

[spert]

How is it a failure if we played finals from 2004-2011 with a few GFs and a truckload of prelims?

Nothing more frustrating to play in a lot of finals yet never take home the prize in the end..it's failure at a higher level and the Saints have always been "close enough is good enough" in their approach over the years. Our recruiters need to look for a couple of "X factor" risk players and not go down the safe path/ leftover player direction. The most important thing is recruiting of class across the ground, and whatever it takes, or whoever they need to offload to get class, that is the priority.

[Dave McNamara]

How is it a failure if we played finals from 2004-2011 with a few GFs and a truckload of prelims?

'Deemsy, I thought that you were a Stock Broker (not a stock breaker).

Doesn't your mob trade the futures market...?

[remboy]

What drafts did we actually do alright in?

2014

[remboy]

Or was it 2008?

From another hindsight-seeing thread of 2012:

Most St.Kilda supporters refer back to the missed drafting opportunities of 2001 - 2003 as the clubs worst recruiting blunders, but as the development of some young players progresses, 2008 is looking like the draft that is going to hurt us most.

While we did net Rhys Stanley with pick 48, and salvaged Tom Simpkin with rookie pick 29, neither is a certain starter in our best 22 at this stage, hopefully both will be an important part of our future spine.

We entered the draft with picks 13, 47, 48, 62, 74 & 83. Pick 31 had been traded to the Bulldogs for Farren Ray and pick 48, which at this point looks the right call, Jordan Roughead was taken by the Dogs at 31. Ray's value throughout the last three years probably outweighs the need for height Roughead would be currently easing.

The top ten in 2008 is proving to be excellent, Watts, Naitanui, Hill, Hartlett, Hurley, Yarran, Rich, Vickery, Ziebell, Davis. With Sidebottom at 11.

At 13 we took Tom Lynch. We got next to nothing out of him, despite limited opportunity. He may improve at the Crows, but he's a long way behind those mentioned above.

After Lynch came Mitch Brown, Schoenmakers, Blease, Shuey, Ballantyne, Jackson Trengove, Zaharakis, Jack Redden, Beams, Hannebery, Roughead, Sheils, Zac Clarke, Steven Motlop, Mitch Robinson, Todd Banfield, Liam Anthony, Matthew Broadbent and Rory Sloane. All have shown something at the top level and more than half are above average players, some even elite. Making our first pick a major fail.

At pick 47 we snapped up Stanley, can't argue with that. Immediately after at 48 we took Nick Heyne. Now while he is also still in the system, we got zero return. Following Heyne came Taylor Hunt, Jordan Lisle, Neville Jetta, Jarrad Redden and Aaron Cornelius. None are stars, but all have shown far more than Heyne.

Pick 62 was Alistair Smith and for a while he looked like he might be a good find, but in the end he played 3 games and was delisted. Pick 74 was Paul Cahill and Pick 83 was Colm Begley, they combined for one senior game. Making Stanley the only player to remain on our list, or to even play over six games. Add to that the fact that of our seven rookie picks, only Simpkin remains. That's 11 wasted picks from a draft only 3.5 years ago. Our first rookie pick was Zac Dawson who gave us three years decent service, but ultimately, he is gone now.

Players available at pick 62 were Rohan Bail, Shane Savage, Liam Jurrah, Tom Rockliff, Jordie McKenzie, Jeff Garlett, Robin Nahas, Matt De Boer, Jarryd Blair, Liam Picken, Luke Breust, Clancee Pearce, Mike Pyke and Lachlan Keefe. Even with pick 71 in the rookie draft we could have taken Greg Broughton, Sam Jacobs or Matthew Suckling!

I know a number of people will read this and say "here's just another draft rant that's so easy in hindsight" or "we picked players to fill voids on the list", but the point I'm trying to make is that the 2008 AFL draft will hurt us more than any going forward, not only because of poor selections, but because almost every club has picked up a future star or two while we missed so many great opportunities. Fourteen clubs still have four or more players from the 2008 draft on their list, we have two, equal least with Essendon, but their two are Hurley and Zaharakis. Recruiting has to be the toughest job in the AFL, but given the talent throughout the 2008 drafts, we should have done a lot better. With Pelchen now on board, we should start to see more draft success, just look at what he did for Hawthorn in that 2008 draft after they finished 1st!

Hopefully Stanley and Simpkin are the big ticks from 2008.

Players On AFL List From 2008 Draft
Adel 7 (Johnston, Lynch, McKernan, Sloane, Young, Henderson, Jacobs)
Bris 6 (Rich, Banfield, Lisle, Redden, Cornelius, Rockliff)
Carl 5 (Yarran, Robinson, Heyne, O'Keefe, Garlett)
Coll 5 (Sidebottom, Beams, Rounds, Blair, Keefe)
Ess 2 (Hurley, Zaharakis)
Frem 10 (Hill, Ballantyne, Suban, Clarke, Walters, Dawson, De Boer, Pearce, Van Berlo, Broughton)
Geel 4 (Brown, Gillies, Motlop, Hunt)
Haw 6 (Schoenmakers, Sheils, Lowden, Savage, Breust, Suckling)
Melb 8 (Watts, Blease, Strauss, Bennell, Jetta, Bail, Jurrah, McKenzie)
NM 6 (Ziebell, Wright, Anthony, Delaney, Speight, Sireakowski)
Port 6 (Hartlett, Trengove, Broadbent, Banner, Stewart, Pfeiffer)
Rich 4 (Vickery, Post, Nahas, Browne)
StK 2 (Stanley, Simpkin)
Syd 3 (Hannenbery, Heath, Pyke)
WB 4 (Cordy, Roughead, Jones, Picken)
WCE 4 (Naitanui, Shuey, Swift, Smith)

*Phil Davis was pick 10, now at GWS as skipper.

We went into the 2008 draft with instructions from the coach to recruit forwards, hence Lynch, Stanley and Heyne. Doesn't halp when you've got one pick in the top 40. But not too many of those mentioned are forwards, got through to 40 and are actually any better than what we got. Wouldn't have minded snaffling Breust though.

[ace]

Why stop at 2004 and 2005.
Look at 2006
We used pick 9 on David Armitage - no-one tries harder but he will never be an elite worthy of a top 10 pick.
27 on Brad Howard
We traded pick 59 to get Shane Birss
Then we traded pick 43 to get Michael Gardiner and get pick 59 back.
We then used pick 59 on Jarryd Allen
Pick 74 was then used to bring Matthew Ferguson back from the rookie list.

We got a few great games out of Michael Gardiner but he was injured more often than not.
We only retain Armitage.
2004 , 2005 and 2006 had something in common - they were uncompromised drafts.
If you had pick 27 you actually got the nominate who you thought was the 27 best prospect in the land.

We did just as well out of the rookie draft at the end of 2006 as we did from the main draft selecting Clinton Jones and Jarryn Geary.

With such brilliant draft picks is it any wonder that Ross Lyon showed no faith in drafting players, instead doing the best he could to trade in existing players in return for our draft picks.

There is only one reason the club is at the bottom of the ladder now - it is because we had the worst recruitment department in the league throughout the naughties.
Blind Freddies dog could pick Nick Riewoldt with pick no 1, the same goes for Brendon Goddard.
When we had picks 2 and 5 we still couldn't pick Judd ahead of Luke Ball or Bartell ahead of Xavier Clarke.

[ace]

The AFL offered us a couple of premierships and we turned them down with incompetence.

[saintsRrising]

There were some good players in the 2004 draft:

https://www.draftguru.com.au/years/2004

Hawthorn built a dynasty on picks 2, 5 and 7 - Roughead, Franklin, Lewis; not to mention Josh Gibson and Clinton Young who were in the rookie draft that year. Other good ones: Griffen, Deledio, Maric, Betts, Van Berlo, Morris, Grundy, Crowley, Le Cras, Pearce, Lumumba, Rosa, Monfries. Plenty of other solid ones of course, though overall not a vintage draft.

2005 probably a better year:

https://www.draftguru.com.au/years/2004

Pendlebury is top-notch; Priddis just won a Brownlow; Murphy, Thomas, Swallow, Nate Jones, Ryder, Kennedy are very good. Once again plenty of other good ones.

None of them ended up on our list. Here's a list of the guys who were on our list at some point from 2004:

trade: Aaron Fiora
pick 16: Adam Pattison (we picked him up in 2009)
pick 17: Andrew McQualter
pick 20: Dean Polo (we picked him up in 2010)
pick 33: Cain Ackland
pick 42: Jesse Smith (we picked him up in 2009)
pick 49: Mark McGough
pick 50: Jayden Attard (we picked him up in 2007)
pick 63: Jimmy Gwilt
Rookie pick 14: Luke Mullins
Rookie pick 25: Beau Maister
Rookie pick 30: Ed McDonnell

(Trent Knobel and Ben Schwarze were in the 2004 draft but that was after we'd dumped them.)

And from 2005:

trade: Fergus Watts
pick 33: Sam Gilbert
pick 47: Ryan Gamble (we picked him up in 2010)
pick 49: Michael Rix
pick 63: Phillip Raymond
pick 71: Justin Sweeney
rookie pick 14: Cathal Corr
rookie pick 30: Dylan Pfitzner
rookie pick 32: James Wall (we picked him up in 2007)
rookie pick 57: Colm Begley (we picked him up in 2008)

(Brent Guerra went to Hawthorn in the PSD that year.)

Wow. Have a look at those names. Some of a Saints supporter's worst nightmares on those lists. 22 players crossed our path from those two drafts. Maybe two of them succeed. Jimmy Gwilt wasn't without his detractors but had a very solid career, Sam Gilbert is obviously still going pretty well (when not injured).

What I find fascinating is that we kept going back for more! The players from these years kept failing and we'd replace them with someone else of about the same age who would then fail in turn.

How did we keep missing? I reckon we could have got better production from that draft year using a dartboard.

This is actually the foundation of our current predicament? Can this really be still hurting us 10 years in the future? Looks like it to me.

Indeed.

I posted similar in the Lyon thread where some supporters want to blame it (our decline) all on Lyon. Fact is we had dreadful recruiting for many years, and not just those two. This is why we went backwards sop quickly.

There was simply no "next-gen" to come on. Just a few, and that is all.

IMO Lyon did exceptionally well to get us into two GF years as the new foundations were dreadful. Clarko at the Hawks is a very good coach, but has also had very good recruiters, as did the Cats, and the Swans.

Whereas our recruiters were for many years, and not jist those two years, churning out dud after dud.

[Austinnn]

Why stop at 2004 and 2005.
Look at 2006
We used pick 9 on David Armitage - no-one tries harder but he will never be an elite worthy of a top 10 pick.
27 on Brad Howard
We traded pick 59 to get Shane Birss
Then we traded pick 43 to get Michael Gardiner and get pick 59 back.
We then used pick 59 on Jarryd Allen
Pick 74 was then used to bring Matthew Ferguson back from the rookie list.

We got a few great games out of Michael Gardiner but he was injured more often than not.
We only retain Armitage.
2004 , 2005 and 2006 had something in common - they were uncompromised drafts.
If you had pick 27 you actually got the nominate who you thought was the 27 best prospect in the land.

We did just as well out of the rookie draft at the end of 2006 as we did from the main draft selecting Clinton Jones and Jarryn Geary.

With such brilliant draft picks is it any wonder that Ross Lyon showed no faith in drafting players, instead doing the best he could to trade in existing players in return for our draft picks.

There is only one reason the club is at the bottom of the ladder now - it is because we had the worst recruitment department in the league throughout the naughties.
Blind Freddies dog could pick Nick Riewoldt with pick no 1, the same goes for Brendon Goddard.
When we had picks 2 and 5 we still couldn't pick Judd ahead of Luke Ball or Bartell ahead of Xavier Clarke.

Yes, that one was truly awful. Trying to stop myself rocking back and forward with my hands clamped on my ears.

Took the pills. Better now.

Is it possible that we overestimated John Beverage? I hope the present mob are a bit more on the money.

[plugger66]

Why stop at 2004 and 2005.
Look at 2006
We used pick 9 on David Armitage - no-one tries harder but he will never be an elite worthy of a top 10 pick.
27 on Brad Howard
We traded pick 59 to get Shane Birss
Then we traded pick 43 to get Michael Gardiner and get pick 59 back.
We then used pick 59 on Jarryd Allen
Pick 74 was then used to bring Matthew Ferguson back from the rookie list.

We got a few great games out of Michael Gardiner but he was injured more often than not.
We only retain Armitage.
2004 , 2005 and 2006 had something in common - they were uncompromised drafts.
If you had pick 27 you actually got the nominate who you thought was the 27 best prospect in the land.

We did just as well out of the rookie draft at the end of 2006 as we did from the main draft selecting Clinton Jones and Jarryn Geary.

With such brilliant draft picks is it any wonder that Ross Lyon showed no faith in drafting players, instead doing the best he could to trade in existing players in return for our draft picks.

There is only one reason the club is at the bottom of the ladder now - it is because we had the worst recruitment department in the league throughout the naughties.
Blind Freddies dog could pick Nick Riewoldt with pick no 1, the same goes for Brendon Goddard.
When we had picks 2 and 5 we still couldn't pick Judd ahead of Luke Ball or Bartell ahead of Xavier Clarke.

Yes, that one was truly awful. Trying to stop myself rocking back and forward with my hands clamped on my ears.

Took the pills. Better now.

Is it possible that we overestimated John Beverage? I hope the present mob are a bit more on the money.

In defence of Bevo which Im sure many wont but I will, he had no money to work with and he didn't have much help at all. Peake had more money but was even worse so I wouldn't be blaming Bevo but im biased as I know the family. Well most of them.

[stinger]

What drafts did we actually do alright in?

Could it possibly be us? Would those good players have thrived at the same way at the Saints? Would Justin Sweeney have become a star at another club? I'm just asking, I don't have enough knowledge to have a useful opinion.

welll...for years we never developed the kids we had ...so maybe....we certainly ruined some promising careers...and some gave footy away completely....

[plugger66]

What drafts did we actually do alright in?

Could it possibly be us? Would those good players have thrived at the same way at the Saints? Would Justin Sweeney have become a star at another club? I'm just asking, I don't have enough knowledge to have a useful opinion.

welll...for years we never developed the kids we had ...so maybe....we certainly ruined some promising careers...and some gave footy away completely....

Simple comment Stinger. Who didn't we develop? I would suggest most were just bad picks. Justin Sweeney could have been a star for sure but it wasn't the clubs fault. he had the wrong attitude for AFL football. Nothing was going to change that. Take that as gospel.

[thejiggingsaint]

Well the good news is: the 2004 & 2005 drafts are in the PAST! We're not on our "Todd Sloan" as far as bad recruiting goes; how else could melbourne be given SO many top picks and STILL fail? Same story at Carlton! As I say those drafts were in the PAST and can't hurt us NOW in 2014. An interesting OP, lots of facts figures etc and makes for an interesting read, and certainly a cautionary tale for our current recruiting staff, however as someone older and wiser than the old Jiggster once said: "that was then; this is now" I'm fairly happy with the way the club are going, not getting TOO far ahead of myself regarding expectations, BUT quietly confident that we are at the beginning of something very BIG at the Saints!

[Con Gorozidis]

Nearly all our gun players were sourced pre 04.

Our shocking recruiting 04 to 09 is the main reason why we are bottom now (and third bottom in 2013).

Im not sure anyone can argue that point.

[hayes66]

In defence of Bevo which Im sure many wont but I will, he had no money to work with and he didn't have much help at all. Peake had more money but was even worse so I wouldn't be blaming Bevo but im biased as I know the family. Well most of them.[/quote]

I get the feeling you don't like Peake much.
Let's look at the facts of Peake's first two drafts. 07 & 08.
This is what they have produced.
A premiership Ruckmen. (McEvoy).
A B&F winner (Steven)
A club leading goal kicker and the same player has kicked ten goals in an AFL game. (Lynch).
Compare Geelong's two drafts in 07& 08.
Geelong had no picks in the top ten.
Saints 1
Geelong 1 pick in the teens
Saints 1
Geelong no picks in the twenty's
Saints none.
Geelong 3 picks in the thirties.
Saints none.
Geelong one pick in the 40's
Saints three.
Who had the best picks?
Geelong over that two year period has produced.
One premiership player Taylor.
The others to mention are, Motlop, Brown, Simpson, Gilies, Taylor Hunt.
For the Saints a possible future centre half forward in Stanley.
So, I believe Geelong had the best picks and the Saints with harder picks compare well.
Taylor and Motlop are good.
Brown, Simpson, Gilies (delisted), Hunt (I think he has been delisted). Are very average players. Stanley is the best of that bunch.
Lynch is also better than them
Taylor and Motlop is better than McEvoy and Steven but not by a lot.

[saintsRrising]

What drafts did we actually do alright in?

Could it possibly be us? Would those good players have thrived at the same way at the Saints? Would Justin Sweeney have become a star at another club? I'm just asking, I don't have enough knowledge to have a useful opinion.

welll...for years we never developed the kids we had ...so maybe....we certainly ruined some promising careers...and some gave footy away completely....

Simple comment Stinger. Who didn't we develop? I would suggest most were just bad picks. Justin Sweeney could have been a star for sure but it wasn't the clubs fault. he had the wrong attitude for AFL football. Nothing was going to change that. Take that as gospel.

Various posters have trotted out the same line as Stinger in numerous threads. I have asked them each time to list the kids that were not developed properly, and particularly those that were meant to become good players...and I have yet to read one forumite who can provide such a list of wasted talent.

I mean 1999 Cayden Beetham chose to stop playing after 37 games.

In the late GT era, and RL era We recruited dud after dud...(at least in terms of AFL ability that is). That is the cold hard reality. It was the recruiters at fault in the main...not the coaches except where they influenced trades. But the kids...that sheets home to the recruiters.

[Con Gorozidis]

I think the record stands for itself. Bevo was shocking from 04-07. Shocking. He did better before that (with better picks). But if you want to take credit for the good years - you have to take responsibility for the bad. I'm pretty sure someone has done a statistical analysis on comparing draft picks with games played and we were on the bottom of that ladder for about 5 years. An appalling recruiting period.

I was disappointed to notice he is still employed by the club to some extent. I don't think we should be running an old mates/superannuation club.

If good recruiting got us into two GFs then to the same extent - shocking recruiting got us a spoon. You cant have it both ways. Last out of 18 is very 'last.' You have to be pretty bad to be 18th from 18. Lets not sugar coat it.