Where our improvement has to come from

[bergholt]

Guys who are too old (7 players)

Fisher (32), Riewoldt (32), Montagna (31), Dempster (31), Schneider (30), Ray (29), Gilbert (28)

What these guys do on-field in the next couple of years will determine how many games we win, but realistically they're at their peak. Even if they could improve, at this point it means nothing for our future because they won't be around when we're challenging next. Gilbert the only question mark there but given his last couple of years, I wouldn't be backing him to still be playing well at 32.

Guys who need to stay solid (4 players)

Armitage (26, 107 games), Geary (26, 100 games), Delaney (25, 48 games), Steven (25, 90 games)

Our tiny core group. They probably don't have too much improvement in them, maybe Steven could step up again and get to AA form. Delaney an outside chance to improve a bit but he's solid enough anyway. They're what we build around but they can't possibly turn us into a good team on their own.

Guys who are on their way out (6 players)

Simpkin (24, 31 games), Shenton (24, 14 games), Roberton (23, 64 games), Markworth (23, 0 games), Siposs (22, 28 games), Minchington (21, 5 games)

These six guys would be at the head of the queue for delisting next year, given this year's production and their contract status. Anything from them would be a very unexpected bonus. I'd be ecstatic if even one of them had shown enough to stay around into 2016.

Guys who will determine whether or not we're any good in the next ten years (21+ players)

24: Savage (70 games), Hickey (30 games), Lee (13 games)
23: Weller (48 games)
22: Newnes (47 games), Bruce (24 games), Curren (23 games)
21: Ross (27 games), Longer (25 games), Webster (22 games), Murdoch (17 games), Wright (15 games)
20: Saunders (20 games), Dunstan (16 games), White (2 games), Membrey (1 game), Pierce (0 games)
19: Billings (16 games), Templeton (6 games), Acres (3 games)
18: Petracca (0 games), three other draftees, three or four rookies

In the next two years most of these guys will hit 50 games or be delisted. At the end of 2015 we'll know a bit more about all of them. But it's the end of 2016 when we'll really know if we've got a good developing list or just a bunch of OK kids. No other team except GWS has such a big group of guys with question marks over how good they can actually be. Even GC has more certainty - the main question there is whether their kids will be stars or just very good players.

So keep an eye on these guys this year. They're literally our only hope for a flag in the next ten years.

[matrix]

really

shenton markworth sippa and minch are on their way out?


havent even seen markworth due to injuries but was touted as goddard reading the play like in the early days

[bergholt]

really

shenton markworth sippa and minch are on their way out?

They've all only got one year contracts so I reckon they need to show a bit. This year 8 players left the club, probably about the same number will be gone next year - it has to be someone. If I was Siposs, for example, and I'd only played 28 games in four years and three games this year then I'd be pretty worried.

Realistically none of them have played more than a handful of AFL quality games in their careers, if that. Roberton's shown the most so hopefully he can get back from his injury in good form. Maybe Markworth will turn out to be good when he finally gets on the park, but there's a limit to the club's patience.

[dragit]

I think white & pierce only have contacts for next year too.

[saint6709]

Guys who are too old (7 players)

Fisher (32), Riewoldt (32), Montagna (31), Dempster (31), Schneider (30), Ray (29), Gilbert (28)

What these guys do on-field in the next couple of years will determine how many games we win, but realistically they're at their peak. Even if they could improve, at this point it means nothing for our future because they won't be around when we're challenging next. Gilbert the only question mark there but given his last couple of years, I wouldn't be backing him to still be playing well at 32.

Guys who need to stay solid (4 players)

Armitage (26, 107 games), Geary (26, 100 games), Delaney (25, 48 games), Steven (25, 90 games)

Our tiny core group. They probably don't have too much improvement in them, maybe Steven could step up again and get to AA form. Delaney an outside chance to improve a bit but he's solid enough anyway. They're what we build around but they can't possibly turn us into a good team on their own.

Guys who are on their way out (6 players)

Simpkin (24, 31 games), Shenton (24, 14 games), Roberton (23, 64 games), Markworth (23, 0 games), Siposs (22, 28 games), Minchington (21, 5 games)

These six guys would be at the head of the queue for delisting next year, given this year's production and their contract status. Anything from them would be a very unexpected bonus. I'd be ecstatic if even one of them had shown enough to stay around into 2016.

Guys who will determine whether or not we're any good in the next ten years (21+ players)

24: Savage (70 games), Hickey (30 games), Lee (13 games)
23: Weller (48 games)
22: Newnes (47 games), Bruce (24 games), Curren (23 games)
21: Ross (27 games), Longer (25 games), Webster (22 games), Murdoch (17 games), Wright (15 games)
20: Saunders (20 games), Dunstan (16 games), White (2 games), Membrey (1 game), Pierce (0 games)
19: Billings (16 games), Templeton (6 games), Acres (3 games)
18: Petracca (0 games), three other draftees, three or four rookies

In the next two years most of these guys will hit 50 games or be delisted. At the end of 2015 we'll know a bit more about all of them. But it's the end of 2016 when we'll really know if we've got a good developing list or just a bunch of OK kids. No other team except GWS has such a big group of guys with question marks over how good they can actually be. Even GC has more certainty - the main question there is whether their kids will be stars or just very good players.

So keep an eye on these guys this year. They're literally our only hope for a flag in the next ten years.

Pretty we'll agree with you - I think you are correct your 6 on the way outs have this year to turn that around - I am really hoping Siposs steps up --pretty well my only change off the top of my head is that I would add Lee to the on the way out -this year I would think is make or break for him also - hope he makes it!!
And Holmes might actually make the list of 21+ players if he keeps improving and working hard

[dragit]

Out of the 8 suggested player movements next year, we will likely see 2 or 3 retirements and a player or 2 traded out.

If we have a good year for injuries then I can imagine Shenton, Minch & Siposs running around in the VFL for most of the year, which would give them no chance of getting another year.

[Devilhead]

I think some supporters underestimate how much an impact Mr Geary has on our side and the young players - ok he might not have the most exquisite skills but his heart, passion, attack on the ball is huge and his massive enthusiasm most defenitely impacts on the side ... Lovin the Gears and cant wait to have him back ... Reckon he makes everyone around him stand taller and play with more intensity

[The Redeemer]

I think some supporters underestimate how much an impact Mr Geary has on our side and the young players - ok he might not have the most exquisite skills but his heart, passion, attack on the ball is huge and his massive enthusiasm most defenitely impacts on the side ... Lovin the Gears and cant wait to have him back ... Reckon he makes everyone around him stand taller and play with more intensity

I think some supporters overrate Geary and what he brings week in and out.

Poor kick, limited offence, not fast. Sure he can run all day however so what?

The sooner he is not in the best 22, the better.

[Con Gorozidis]

I think some supporters underestimate how much an impact Mr Geary has on our side and the young players - ok he might not have the most exquisite skills but his heart, passion, attack on the ball is huge and his massive enthusiasm most defenitely impacts on the side ... Lovin the Gears and cant wait to have him back ... Reckon he makes everyone around him stand taller and play with more intensity

I think some supporters overrate Geary and what he brings week in and out.

Poor kick, limited offence, not fast. Sure he can run all day however so what?

The sooner he is not in the best 22, the better.

Have to agree with Deemsy. If we are thinking of getting n uplift from having Gears play we are really kidding ourselves. Hes a great warrior with guts and super fit endurance runner. But hes still a plodder and his kicking is always a worry. Has no pace at all over 20m.

For me the improvement can come from Jacky Boy. 2013 b & F. Clearly hes our big man next year. Then that 21yo type of guy like Webster Wright Ross Bruce are the guys I am hoping can step it up a few notches.

[stinger]

really

shenton markworth sippa and minch are on their way out?


havent even seen markworth due to injuries but was touted as goddard reading the play like in the early days

bit rich really, wasn't it......?????....maybe he's having a lend of us....

[Devilhead]

I think some supporters underestimate how much an impact Mr Geary has on our side and the young players - ok he might not have the most exquisite skills but his heart, passion, attack on the ball is huge and his massive enthusiasm most defenitely impacts on the side ... Lovin the Gears and cant wait to have him back ... Reckon he makes everyone around him stand taller and play with more intensity

I think some supporters overrate Geary and what he brings week in and out.

Poor kick, limited offence, not fast. Sure he can run all day however so what?

The sooner he is not in the best 22, the better.

His enthusiasm and attack on the ball makes his team mates around him stand taller which is a super super positive - no matter how average his skills are - these attributes are gold when it comes to building a great team

[Wrote for Luck]

imo our best young player is Newnes and if he continues his developmental arch will be getting a lot of attention toward the end of season 2015.

don't understand the 'on the way outs' as a lot of those guys have got new contracts. more like 'all ahead of them'.

reckon Simpkin will get a solid run next year replacing Gwilty.

[bergholt]

Out of the 8 suggested player movements next year, we will likely see 2 or 3 retirements and a player or 2 traded out.

Agreed, but "traded out"? Who on our list could possibly be dispensable and yet have trade value next year? Maybe Armo, Steven would have value but I couldn't see us letting him go and he's a free agent anyway. I guess one of the ruckmen if Pierce develops well, but that would be more for Giles's price than Stanley's. Not many others with currency - if they improve then we need them, if they don't then no-one will want them.

Maybe a reverse Boyd? Petracca to GWS for Treloar/Cameron and their first pick?

[bergholt]

don't understand the 'on the way outs' as a lot of those guys have got new contracts. more like 'all ahead of them'.

New one-year contracts mean they have to get on the park and show something in 2015. That isn't going to be easy seeing none of them are in our best 30 players and some of them have been injured a lot.


Simpkin: I really like his endeavour but he only managed 5 games for a team that finished last. He's obviously 5cm too short for the position he's best suited for. It's a long way back for him from here.

Shenton: Played 13 games but I don't know what his position is at AFL level, I think he's just not good enough. Would love to be proved wrong.

Roberton: Plenty of reserves games but only 7 for the seniors. We're told he was injured, I hope that's the case and he comes back bigger and better in 2015, because his 2013 was excellent.

Markworth: This will be his fourth year on the list and he's still not fully fit and hasn't played a senior game. He's probably the next Chris Judd but if he can't get on the park then he's more likely the next Jesse Smith.

Siposs: 3 games for a team with a dysfunctional forward line. I really want the guy to succeed because he has so many good attributes, but for mine it doesn't look likely.

Minchington: Got promoted on the strength of one kick which hit Roo on the chest. I reckon he's the most likely to make it of these six, actually, but it's still not a high chance.


If these guys are playing then who's in the reserves? Unless we have a bunch of injuries like this year, it's going to be really hard for them to get the ten good games or so they need to stay on.

[spert]

On season 2014 form, I would say the entire list needs a kick up the bum from inexperienced to experienced and needs to improve hugely to get to the point of competitiveness let alone winning. A real second-rate effort from the club. I sincerely hope the many injured players get themselves right for 2015.

[stinger]

Out of the 8 suggested player movements next year, we will likely see 2 or 3 retirements and a player or 2 traded out.

Agreed, but "traded out"? Who on our list could possibly be dispensable and yet have trade value next year? Maybe Armo, Steven would have value but I couldn't see us letting him go and he's a free agent anyway. I guess one of the ruckmen if Pierce develops well, but that would be more for Giles's price than Stanley's. Not many others with currency - if they improve then we need them, if they don't then no-one will want them.

Maybe a reverse Boyd? Petracca to GWS for Treloar/Cameron and their first pick?

richmond will have another dip at armo....you can bet on it....the cheaters will chase seb ross at some stage....

[HitTheBoundary]

richmond will have another dip at armo....you can bet on it....the cheaters will chase seb ross at some stage....

If he can improve his tank I think Seb may be the big surprise next year.
But he will need a big pre-season to improve his gut running. At the moment he can't get to enough contests.

Siposs will need to have a break out year to stay on the list IMO, otherwise he will get surpassed by new recruits.
Simpkin may be lucky to get a game in the firsts next year next year if everyone is fit.
If Minchington can improve his fitness and thus get more touches he will become a regular as his disposal is so good.
Lewis Pierce to be a regular in the firsts by the end of the year as he can take a mark - which is rare for our ruckman.

I hope the biggest improvement is in terms of no injuries. A side like ours can't afford any.

[stinger]

a surprisingly good post....

[saint-stu]

Roberton: Plenty of reserves games but only 7 for the seniors. We're told he was injured, I hope that's the case and he comes back bigger and better in 2015, because his 2013 was excellent.

This makes me a bit sad as he really was outstanding in 2013. Richo said in an interview last year that Roberton has permanent damage in his ankle and has lost some movement. I really hope the injury doesn't end his career so early.

[saintspremiers]

Lee is definitely on the way to nowhere category

[Con Gorozidis]

really

shenton markworth sippa and minch are on their way out?


havent even seen markworth due to injuries but was touted as goddard reading the play like in the early days

'touted' . He will be 23 and on zero games. BJ had 100 games by that point. So fair call for Berg to place a question mark there.
Ill be ecstatic if he comes on though.

Minchy still only 20 - so I still put him in the 'kids' category. Still think he is a real chance.

Good comprehensive post though by berg as usual imho.

We have quite a few talented 'fringe dwellers' treading water in their early 20s - all with their own unique problems - (e.g Sippa, Lee, Markworth, Robo, Shenton, Weller) . If a few of those surprise it will be the shot in the arm we so desperately need but at this point we have to assume only a few of them will make it if any. Guys like Simpkin and Curren are thereabouts but really depth/squad players.

[saintsRrising]

On season 2014 form, I would say the entire list needs a kick up the bum from inexperienced to experienced and needs to improve hugely to get to the point of competitiveness let alone winning. A real second-rate effort from the club. I sincerely hope the many injured players get themselves right for 2015.

Yes. There were too few that played to potential, and who played well consistently.

On the OP...yes we need some of our mid to lower picks to bloom, to become stars. ie Steven was a pick 42.

Without that we will remain cellars dwellers for a long, long time. Picking up a Petracca type here and there will not be enough to have a great 22.

[Dave McNamara]

New one-year contracts mean they have to get on the park and show something in 2015. That isn't going to be easy seeing none of them are in our best 30 players and some of them have been injured a lot.

Simpkin: I really like his endeavour but he only managed 5 games for a team that finished last. He's obviously 5cm too short for the position he's best suited for. It's a long way back for him from here.

Shenton: Played 13 games but I don't know what his position is at AFL level, I think he's just not good enough. Would love to be proved wrong.

Roberton: Plenty of reserves games but only 7 for the seniors. We're told he was injured, I hope that's the case and he comes back bigger and better in 2015, because his 2013 was excellent.

Markworth: This will be his fourth year on the list and he's still not fully fit and hasn't played a senior game. He's probably the next Chris Judd but if he can't get on the park then he's more likely the next Jesse Smith.

Siposs: 3 games for a team with a dysfunctional forward line. I really want the guy to succeed because he has so many good attributes, but for mine it doesn't look likely.

Minchington: Got promoted on the strength of one kick which hit Roo on the chest. I reckon he's the most likely to make it of these six, actually, but it's still not a high chance.

Hi Bergs, you know your stuff, so it's risky business disagreeing with you. But I will a bit anyway...

Roberton: I really rate him, but that permanent ankle injury really seems to have taken the critical edge of his game... I hope I'm wrong.

Markworth: Some accuracy in the Jesse Smith analogy, except that Jessie had/has the one structural injury (ankle) that he couldn't get over (which I reckon cost us a few flags ... as he was a star), whereas Dan has been just sheer unlucky... knee re-co (which seems fine, then bad hammy which ended his 2014 season).
So I think he just needs some luck.

Sippa: I agree that 2015 is probably make or break, but he didn't break into last season's dysfunctional forwardline, coz just as he seemed to be getting his act together... season ending shoulder injury.
He has the talent, does Aaron have the hunger...?

Minch: You mixed a harsh assessment with some positivity with Minch, Bergs. IMHO the harsh part is the "on the back of one kick" bit. Whilst drilling a pass onto Roo's chest is a very smart tactic on the behalf of a young bloke trying to establish himself , he got his promotion on the back of some solid senior games, then a huge finish to the season at Sandy, where he built his tank and showed that he wanted to and could play in the mid field... kudos Minch(!)

The Panther: (From afar) I suspect that confidence is his issue.

Simpkin: Not slow, but not overly quick. Very limited skills with the footy, so can't play forward. Not tall enough for the key forwards, and can't provide rebound if played as third man up (see very limited skills with the footy bit).

[bergholt]

Hi Bergs, you know your stuff, so it's risky business disagreeing with you. But I will a bit anyway...

Not sure you actually disagreed that much?

Markworth is definitely due some luck. Unfortunately some guys never get it. Let's hope he's not one of them.

Shenton reminds me of all those guys who are good footballers but don't have a position at AFL level. Dunell, Raph, probably Siposs, maybe Caleb Daniel. His only hope is to become a midfielder but I don't think he's going to wind up having the tank for it. Still, he'll get games this year to prove himself, so we live in hope!

[saintly]

Out of the 8 suggested player movements next year, we will likely see 2 or 3 retirements and a player or 2 traded out.

If we have a good year for injuries then I can imagine Shenton, Minch & Siposs running around in the VFL for most of the year, which would give them no chance of getting another year.

fisher is the only one i think will retire.

simpkin, will most likely be delisted andmaybe sipposs, depending whether he improves at all. other then that, no idea.