Ruck duties

[SainterK]

One particular poster gets flamed for criticism of Billy each week, when all he points out is that the opposing ruckman tends to star against the saints.

This week again

Stefan Martin
25 disp, 31 hitoutt, 7 clearances, 4 marks, 6 inside 50's a behind and a goal assist

It's not picking on him, as he is young and developing, but isn't anyone just a little curious to see how Tom would go as the #1 ruck at some point?

I know I'm curious, doing an awesome job attempting to be a forward, but I'd love to see him have a go as main ruck.

[longtimesaint]

at some point we are going to have to give Holmes a try as he has been consistently among the best at Sandy each week

[plugger66]

at some point we are going to have to give Holmes a try as he has been consistently among the best at Sandy each week

Well he cant play this year so it will be next year if we keep him. Im with SK on this. Longer last 5 games have seen him average about 6 possessions a game whilst the opposition ruckman just about has his best game for the season. Its very unfair on Hickey having to play in a spot he is only fair at playing. I think its time to see Longer have a rest or really be dropped and Hickey become the number one ruck. By the way I don't see it happening and there would be reasons I don't see. The club have better stats than us.

[CURLY]

Anyone see Longers center hit out to Joey in the last? Thats why Longer is in the side.

[plugger66]

Anyone see Longers center hit out to Joey in the last? Thats why Longer is in the side.

Did you see the one at the start of the third? Longer won it brilliantly straight down the throat of a Lions player. And did you see the one straight after the longer one to Joey? Martin won it brilliantly and again Joey got a great clearance.

[CURLY]

Anyone see Longers center hit out to Joey in the last? Thats why Longer is in the side.

Did you see the one at the start of the third? Longer won it brilliantly straight down the throat of a Lions player. And did you see the one straight after the longer one to Joey? Martin won it brilliantly and again Joey got a great clearance.

We goaled from the Joey tap. Not many rucks could have performed that tap.

[8856brother]

Tom's knee is an issue I think.

[Sobraz]

Agree absolutely with the OP.

Really think Hickey has been thrown to the wolves by being played almost exclusively as a forward, when he is unquestionably a ruckman. He has battled well to make a fist of it but seems he is on the outer.

Especially odd considering Longer has done pretty much nothing other than win the tap puts with the occasional one going to our advantage.

As pointed out in this thread, just as many taps directly from the opposition ruckman go straight to our advantage. A more overrated stat in the game there is not.

Longer is being carved up around the ground week after week. And just does not win possession. He is touted as having been a big improver this year. To me, averaging 8 disposals a game and 2 marks this year V's 7 disposals a game with 1 mark last season isn't much of an increase. All the while being down on tackles.

Hopefully we're increasing his trade value by playing him in the ones, all the while biding Hickey's time...

[plugger66]

Anyone see Longers center hit out to Joey in the last? Thats why Longer is in the side.

Did you see the one at the start of the third? Longer won it brilliantly straight down the throat of a Lions player. And did you see the one straight after the longer one to Joey? Martin won it brilliantly and again Joey got a great clearance.

We goaled from the Joey tap. Not many rucks could have performed that tap.

Well if he plays because of doing that once a game then I wish I was an AFL ruckman.

[SainterK]

Agree absolutely with the OP.

Really think Hickey has been thrown to the wolves by being played almost exclusively as a forward, when he is unquestionably a ruckman. He has battled well to make a fist of it but seems he is on the outer.

Especially odd considering Longer has done pretty much nothing other than win the tap puts with the occasional one going to our advantage.

As pointed out in this thread, just as many taps directly from the opposition ruckman go straight to our advantage. A more overrated stat in the game there is not.

Longer is being carved up around the ground week after week. And just does not win possession. He is touted as having been a big improver this year. To me, averaging 8 disposals a game and 2 marks this year V's 7 disposals a game with 1 mark last season isn't much of an increase. All the while being down on tackles.

Hopefully we're increasing his trade value by playing him in the ones, all the while biding Hickey's time...

Get that vibe too, seems out of favour.

Unsure why, given Billy was the guy who turned up chubby this year and had to earn respect back.

If it was his knee issues, all that work below them wouldn't be helping.

[ace]

Agree absolutely with the OP.

Really think Hickey has been thrown to the wolves by being played almost exclusively as a forward, when he is unquestionably a ruckman. He has battled well to make a fist of it but seems he is on the outer.

Especially odd considering Longer has done pretty much nothing other than win the tap puts with the occasional one going to our advantage.

As pointed out in this thread, just as many taps directly from the opposition ruckman go straight to our advantage. A more overrated stat in the game there is not.

Longer is being carved up around the ground week after week. And just does not win possession. He is touted as having been a big improver this year. To me, averaging 8 disposals a game and 2 marks this year V's 7 disposals a game with 1 mark last season isn't much of an increase. All the while being down on tackles.

Hopefully we're increasing his trade value by playing him in the ones, all the while biding Hickey's time...

I would take that sort of progress year on year for my share portfolio. Extremely wealthy in 20 years time.

[FQF]

Let's not be drama queens. It isn't about who is in favour with the coach.

We have two talented 200+ cm ruckmen who the coach wants to see play in the same team. At the moment, one is a better forward than the other.

Swapping out Hickey/Longer for Membrey changes our entire structure.

[plugger66]

Let's not be drama queens. It isn't about who is in favour with the coach.

We have two talented 200+ cm ruckmen who the coach wants to see play in the same team. At the moment, one is a better forward than the other.

Swapping out Hickey/Longer for Membrey changes our entire structure.

But we may play even better if Hickey rucks. Surely he would put more pressure on the opposition ruckman.

[lewdogs]

I've liked Billy this year. If he can find a way to gather 15-odd possessions a game then that will see him take the next step. His tap work has been solid, apart from against Nic Nat who really killed him - but that's Nic Nat.

Having said that I think we need to try Holmes this year considering how good his tap work is. He could take the next step at AFL level. Just don't see the harm in trying him.

[FQF]

Let's not be drama queens. It isn't about who is in favour with the coach.

We have two talented 200+ cm ruckmen who the coach wants to see play in the same team. At the moment, one is a better forward than the other.

Swapping out Hickey/Longer for Membrey changes our entire structure.

But we may play even better if Hickey rucks. Surely he would put more pressure on the opposition ruckman.

Hickey might perform better as number 1, but will our forward line lose out? Quite possibly. Especially given the regular absence of Roo.

[plugger66]

Let's not be drama queens. It isn't about who is in favour with the coach.

We have two talented 200+ cm ruckmen who the coach wants to see play in the same team. At the moment, one is a better forward than the other.

Swapping out Hickey/Longer for Membrey changes our entire structure.

But we may play even better if Hickey rucks. Surely he would put more pressure on the opposition ruckman.

Hickey might perform better as number 1, but will our forward line lose out? Quite possibly. Especially given the regular absence of Roo.

Well if Roo is absent you wouldn't do it. Unfortunately I se Hickey being dropped soon because of performance as a forward.

[saintsRrising]

Having said that I think we need to try Holmes this year considering how good his tap work is. He could take the next step at AFL level. Just don't see the harm in trying him.

I would be curious as well. But unless there is a major long term injury (LTI) we cannot promote another rookie unless we send both Schneider and Sinclair back as rookies, and given the form they are in there is no way that one will not be retained on the senior list.

(Note: 2 players back soon from LTI, and so both Schneider and Sinlair would go back to be rookies. however rules allow 1 rookie to be promnoted after Round 11 without a LTI and so one of Schneider or Sinclair will paly on in the second half).

Late in theyear they may put someone in for surgery, but otherwise unless a bad injury occurs Holmes will have to wait till next year.

[gringo]

I think Steph Martin is showing exactly why they should be giving him games. Melbourne failed to play him and he did nothing. They played him at the Lion now he's a gun. SM is a high possession ruck man he has been in great form against the best rucks in the comp.

We seem to have a lot of people who resent playing the old guys who are already playing good footy when there are kids who need developing yet the guys who are developing aren't up to it and should be dropped. I'm happy to trust their judgement on playing him. Hickey might have such a bad knee they don't want to bust him up.

[skeptic]

I think that prior to this list taking the next step, this is an area that needs to be fleshed out.

As it stands, whilst both Longer and Hickey are gradually improving, i don't feel that either has yet demonstrated that they can play to the standard that their respective positions demand from them.

I imagine the coaching staff are of the frame of mind that by pumping games into them now, we may fast-track development. That's okay for now but we all know the dynamic is NQR

One must further wonder if
a) we're stalling Hickey's development as a ruck
b) depriving a Membrey, Lee, McCartin, White etc experience up forward (admittedly only Tim is pushing right now)
c) making a mistake by not playing Pierce, Holmes etc

[plugger66]

I think Steph Martin is showing exactly why they should be giving him games. Melbourne failed to play him and he did nothing. They played him at the Lion now he's a gun. SM is a high possession ruck man he has been in great form against the best rucks in the comp.

We seem to have a lot of people who resent playing the old guys who are already playing good footy when there are kids who need developing yet the guys who are developing aren't up to it and should be dropped. I'm happy to trust their judgement on playing him. Hickey might have such a bad knee they don't want to bust him up.

If Hickey isn't injured he is your Martin type and not Longer. If Longer plays in the ruck then Hickey misses out on becoming the next martin.

[Spinner]

One particular poster gets flamed for criticism of Billy each week, when all he points out is that the opposing ruckman tends to star against the saints.

This week again

Stefan Martin
25 disp, 31 hitoutt, 7 clearances, 4 marks, 6 inside 50's a behind and a goal assist

It's not picking on him, as he is young and developing, but isn't anyone just a little curious to see how Tom would go as the #1 ruck at some point?

I know I'm curious, doing an awesome job attempting to be a forward, but I'd love to see him have a go as main ruck.

I'm happy with what Longer is delivering in the ruck. Getting that right first and foremost. He is combative in his main indicator and that is ruck contests - especially for a young ruckman. The other stuff will come.

At the moment he has played himself into keeping his spot and was just bad luck for hickey being injured. I rate hickey but obviously the separation between the two was not enough for him to just walk back in.

[SainterK]

Let's not be drama queens. It isn't about who is in favour with the coach.

We have two talented 200+ cm ruckmen who the coach wants to see play in the same team. At the moment, one is a better forward than the other.

Swapping out Hickey/Longer for Membrey changes our entire structure.

But we may play even better if Hickey rucks. Surely he would put more pressure on the opposition ruckman.

Hickey might perform better as number 1, but will our forward line lose out? Quite possibly. Especially given the regular absence of Roo.

Don't know, we haven't really tried Roo Bruce Membrey that much

[Freebird]

Let's not be drama queens. It isn't about who is in favour with the coach.

We have two talented 200+ cm ruckmen who the coach wants to see play in the same team. At the moment, one is a better forward than the other.

Swapping out Hickey/Longer for Membrey changes our entire structure.

But we may play even better if Hickey rucks. Surely he would put more pressure on the opposition ruckman.

Hickey put more pressure on the op ruck..r u serious?

[plugger66]

Let's not be drama queens. It isn't about who is in favour with the coach.

We have two talented 200+ cm ruckmen who the coach wants to see play in the same team. At the moment, one is a better forward than the other.

Swapping out Hickey/Longer for Membrey changes our entire structure.

But we may play even better if Hickey rucks. Surely he would put more pressure on the opposition ruckman.

Hickey put more pressure on the op ruck..r u serious?

Yes I am. have you actually looked at the stats of our opposition ruckmen this year? Obviously not. Longer cant go with them and they know he wont hurt them. Hickey can hurt the opposition ruckman.

[Junction Oval]

I am not against Longer, as he has a lot of development in front of him. However, the Centre Bounces are so important in today's footy, that his current lack of effectiveness in that area is costing us a lot of drive.

With Rooey back last week, I would have retained Membrey and given Hickey the main ruck job.I thought that Longer should have been dropped last week. We simply can't afford to "give away" centre clearances against the Hawks next week.