Luke Dunstan and Concussion

[Johnny Member]

Anyone else reckon he's been concussed too many times already?


I genuinely worry about him.

[saintbrat]

I have been taping some games from 2002 and Max was concussed 3 times in 4 weeks- take off not compus concussed. and just continued to play.

[Johnny Member]

But as a 20yo midfielder?

He's already missed games due to it.


Very concerning sign I reckon.

[Rosco]

Mckenzie more concerning.

[Zed]

Bring back Burkeys helmets

[supersaints]

Bring back Burkeys helmets

Or for a more dramatic look, Phil Narkels helmet

[HitTheBoundary]

Mckenzie more concerning.

+ 1

[ripplug66]

Doctors have us covered.

[Johnny Member]

Doctors have us covered.

The doctors operate within the AFL rules, so they don't really have anyone covered in terms of brain damage.

In the UFC, if you get knocked out in a fight, you're instantly banned from fighting for 3 months. Doesn't matter if you get clipped on the jaw and are only out for 3 seconds - you're banned.

In the AFL, you can get knocked out and play on immediately!! Let alone having to worry about the next week! It's just bizarre.


Hodge went limp and his eyes rolled back last week in that contest. He was out. The fight would have been stopped in the UFC and he'd been out for 3 months - for his own safety. But because he came good and was able to push the trainers away before a doctor even saw him, he played on.


The doctors only 'have us covered' in the sense that if a player comes off and doesn't pass the concussion test, he can't go back on. But this doesn't mean he isn't vulnerable to being knocked out cold and concussed every single week of a season. It's plain dangerous.


Dunstan copped some bad concussions last season, and has already missed games due to it. When I sdee him get hit now, I notice how slow he can be to get up.

Not a good look, and very concerning for it to be happening this early in his career.

[White Winmar]

Why helmets aren't compulsory in the AFL defies belief. If wearing helmets prevents just one case of permanent brain damage, then it is worth it. I guess it will come down to what I've termed "Coroner's Court Syndrome", meaning someone has to die before the law and behaviour changes.

The long term, detrimental effects of concussion are well documented by strongly validated scientific research. Eventually a player will sue his club and the AFL over this issue. Dunstan and McKenzie both seem to be too brave for their own good.

[matrix]

There was an article in yesterday's Adelaide advertiser on john platton.
You should see what he went thru and what it was like back then compared to now

It effects him now quite badly.

Can't even remember his kids friends names or conversations with the wife from the day before.
Walked to the centre square in a GF I think k it said at quarter time, Dr asked him what he was doing and hesaid going to the motorcade....or something along those lines.

If someone can link it its a good read

[Trev from the Bush]

They take NO chances with concussion today, which is why Luke and DMac have missed games.

Compare that to Burkey and, long before him, Paul Callery who seemed to get pole-axed every few games. It is th players from the past emerging with issues now.

[ripplug66]

Why helmets aren't compulsory in the AFL defies belief. If wearing helmets prevents just one case of permanent brain damage, then it is worth it. I guess it will come down to what I've termed "Coroner's Court Syndrome", meaning someone has to die before the law and behaviour changes.

The long term, detrimental effects of concussion are well documented by strongly validated scientific research. Eventually a player will sue his club and the AFL over this issue. Dunstan and McKenzie both seem to be too brave for their own good.

I doubt helmets will ever be made compulsory in the AFL and medical evidence suggests they wouldn't help. If anything it may make players lead with their head even more. Half the problem with American football is because of helmets.

[Johnny Member]

They take NO chances with concussion today, which is why Luke and DMac have missed games.

Compare that to Burkey and, long before him, Paul Callery who seemed to get pole-axed every few games. It is th players from the past emerging with issues now.

They DO take chances though!

As I said, the UFC puts you out for 3 months - whereas only in severe cases in the AFL will you even miss one week!


I think I read that Platten had 40 concussions. I reckon Dunstan has already had 5 or 6 and one of them was severe. That's not good.

[ripplug66]

They take NO chances with concussion today, which is why Luke and DMac have missed games.

Compare that to Burkey and, long before him, Paul Callery who seemed to get pole-axed every few games. It is th players from the past emerging with issues now.

They DO take chances though!

As I said, the UFC puts you out for 3 months - whereas only in severe cases in the AFL will you even miss one week!


I think I read that Platten had 40 concussions. I reckon Dunstan has already had 5 or 6 and one of them was severe. That's not good.

Well considering the job of UFC maybe to knock you out then that may make sense. I don't think the job of AFL players is to knock people out. One maybe over cautious because of that. Sprinters also have about 10 weeks off because of hammies but we don't do that. Doctors way up the risk. They have the knowledge. They have the data.

[matrix]

Yeah platts reckons he had around 40 in his career.
Crazy.

[White Winmar]

[quote="ripplug66"][quote="White Winmar"]Why helmets aren't compulsory in the AFL defies belief. If wearing helmets prevents just one case of permanent brain damage, then it is worth it. I guess it will come down to what I've termed "Coroner's Court Syndrome", meaning someone has to die before the law and behaviour changes.

The long term, detrimental effects of concussion are well documented by strongly validated scientific research. Eventually a player will sue his club and the AFL over this issue. Dunstan and McKenzie both seem to be too brave for their own good.[/quote]


I doubt helmets will ever be made compulsory in the AFL and medical evidence suggests they wouldn't help. If anything it may make players lead with their head even more. Half the problem with American football is because of helmets.[/quote]

Where is your evidence that helmets don't help? I'd like to read the research, if there is any. On the other hand, there is a large body of evidence that supports the contention that concussion leads to disability, particularly later in life. I think the main problem with gridiron is the way it's played, rather than the protective gear the players wear. Pnk k.pn,on
Nkpmnpknpk!0&!0&&@?

[White Winmar]

[quote="ripplug66"][quote="White Winmar"]Why helmets aren't compulsory in the AFL defies belief. If wearing helmets prevents just one case of permanent brain damage, then it is worth it. I guess it will come down to what I've termed "Coroner's Court Syndrome", meaning someone has to die before the law and behaviour changes.

The long term, detrimental effects of concussion are well documented by strongly validated scientific research. Eventually a player will sue his club and the AFL over this issue. Dunstan and McKenzie both seem to be too brave for their own good.[/quote]


I doubt helmets will ever be made compulsory in the AFL and medical evidence suggests they wouldn't help. If anything it may make players lead with their head even more. Half the problem with American football is because of helmets.[/quote]

Where is your evidence that helmets don't help? I'd like to read the research, if there is any. On the other hand, there is a large body of evidence that supports the contention that concussion leads to disability, particularly later in life. I think the main problem with gridiron is the way it's played, rather than the protective gear the players wear. Pnk k.pn,on
Nkpmnpknpk!0&!0&&@?

[Wayne42]

Maybe, albeit, extremely unfortunately, concussion explains his overall performance in season 2015

[Griggsy]

I think the medical team would be on top of it. Boxers etc sustain a lot more than a few. If the number keeps growing then I would be concerned as there there's evidence that a high number does has long term affects.

[ripplug66]

Why helmets aren't compulsory in the AFL defies belief. If wearing helmets prevents just one case of permanent brain damage, then it is worth it. I guess it will come down to what I've termed "Coroner's Court Syndrome", meaning someone has to die before the law and behaviour changes.

The long term, detrimental effects of concussion are well documented by strongly validated scientific research. Eventually a player will sue his club and the AFL over this issue. Dunstan and McKenzie both seem to be too brave for their own good.

I doubt helmets will ever be made compulsory in the AFL and medical evidence suggests they wouldn't help. If anything it may make players lead with their head even more. Half the problem with American football is because of helmets.

Where is your evidence that helmets don't help? I'd like to read the research, if there is any. On the other hand, there is a large body of evidence that supports the contention that concussion leads to disability, particularly later in life. I think the main problem with gridiron is the way it's played, rather than the protective gear the players wear. Pnk k.pn,on
Nkpmnpknpk!0&!0&&@?

I get it from Hugh Seeward or whatever his name is. The AFL doctor who has said it many times on radio. He quotes tests that have been conducted. I reckon he has us covered. Even with kids wearing them he said it is mainly for knocks to the head that will cause cuts and bruises. Sounds strange to me but it also makes sense when you look at American footy and how many concussions they get.

[White Winmar]

Why helmets aren't compulsory in the AFL defies belief. If wearing helmets prevents just one case of permanent brain damage, then it is worth it. I guess it will come down to what I've termed "Coroner's Court Syndrome", meaning someone has to die before the law and behaviour changes.

The long term, detrimental effects of concussion are well documented by strongly validated scientific research. Eventually a player will sue his club and the AFL over this issue. Dunstan and McKenzie both seem to be too brave for their own good.

I doubt helmets will ever be made compulsory in the AFL and medical evidence suggests they wouldn't help. If anything it may make players lead with their head even more. Half the problem with American football is because of helmets.

Where is your evidence that helmets don't help? I'd like to read the research, if there is any. On the other hand, there is a large body of evidence that supports the contention that concussion leads to disability, particularly later in life. I think the main problem with gridiron is the way it's played, rather than the protective gear the players wear. Pnk k.pn,on
Nkpmnpknpk!0&!0&&@?

I get it from Hugh Seeward or whatever his name is. The AFL doctor who has said it many times on radio. He quotes tests that have been conducted. I reckon he has us covered. Even with kids wearing them he said it is mainly for knocks to the head that will cause cuts and bruises. Sounds strange to me but it also makes sense when you look at American footy and how many concussions they get.[/quote

I suggest these guys have Hugh covered. Maybe he should research a little more widely before making sweeping, generalised statements. This is one of only dozens of studies that support the fact that helmet design significantly reduces the incidence and severity of concussion. Ask any neurosurgeon about a helmet's ability to reduce and prevent trauma. Why are they compulsory for motorbike riders and cyclists? Because they have been PROVEN to reduce and prevent trauma! If Hugh Seward is the AFL's so called expert on this and what you are attributing to him is true, then the AFL needs to find a new expert in the field. What the scientific evidence shows is that the helmet design is the critical factor in reducing injury and its effects. Food for thought, methinks.

"Study shows helmet design reduces concussion effects by 54%".

Data reported by Duma and his Virginia Tech-Wake Forest colleague, Steven Rowson, in a 2012 letter in the Annals of Biomechanical Engineering (Rowson S, Duma SM. 2014) analyzed 9 years of head impact data collected from 308 players. It reported that the Revolution helmet reduced the risk of concussion by 85% compared to the VSR4 helmet. The current study, said Duma, was designed to address the limitations of the 2006 Collins study, expand on the 2012 results with a larger sample size, and control as much as possible for other variables.

Because each player was provided with a new helmet of the two models under investigation, helmet age did not vary. Each of the eight teams had a team physician and athletic trainers to monitor and evaluate players during games and practices, and the same team doctor made each concussion diagnosis throughout the study period.

"Most importantly," said Duma, by controlling for the number of head impacts each player experienced, which previous studies have shown varies by player and position, researchers were able to make an apples-to-apples comparison based on better data for addressing the question of whether helmet design can influence concussion incidence than the total number of players or athletic-exposures (e.g. number of games and practices). The data "illustrates that differences in the ability to reduce concussion risk exist between helmet models in football," the authors concluded.

Our results are grounded on "very sound science," Duma asserted, and provide "solid clinical evidence" that helmet design, while it may never prevent all concussions from occurring in football, can reduce the incidence of this injury. Micky Collins, Director of the Sports Medicine Concussion Program at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, and author of numerous peer-reviewed concussion studies, including the 2006 helmet study, was not surprised by the Rowson study's findings. That it is now the third study reporting that helmet design can affect concussion risk, he said, made him a "little more confident" and "hopeful" that helmet technology is "going in the right direction."

[ripplug66]

I don't need to research because I listen to the head doctor of the AFL. Is that study on AFL footy? If not it probably isn't relevant and I'm sure I can google studies that show they don't help.

The point is AFL players wont be told to wear helmets in my lifetime. There are more hits to the head in both rugby codes and they don't wear helemts in those codes apart from a few. Maybe their doctors don't care.

[saintspremiers]

I don't need to research because I listen to the head doctor of the AFL. Is that study on AFL footy? If not it certainly isn't relevant and I'm sure I can google studies that show they don't help.

The point is AFL players wont be told to wear helmets in my lifetime. There are more hits to the head in both rugby codes and they don't wear helemts in those codes apart from a few. Maybe their doctors don't care.

You may be right but I wouldn't at this stage have plenty of confidence in AFL research as it's all fairly new for them. They may be on the right track but perhaps it's too early to know

[thefatdork]

Hi WW and Rippluger66,
I've got an interest in this area as I coach junior footy and am also a trainer and a doctor.
The evidence is that helmets may prevent local trauma - I.e. a cut/laceration/fracture - but they don't stop concussion. This is because the injury in concussion is caused by the brain, which sort of floats in fluid, sloshing back and forth rapidly and forcefully inside the skull and getting bruised up. Wearing a helmet doesn't stop this internal movement from happening.
There is evidence that wearing helmets makes players feel protected and they put themselves at greater risk as they think they don't have to worry about it and go in harder with their heads.
There's lots of money to be made if someone could invent a concussion-preventing helmet but they don't exist at present.
Here are some reputable links:
http://sma.org.au/2013/11/helmets-do-no ... oncussion/ - from sports medicine Australia
http://www.aflcommunityclub.com.au/index.php?id=883 - from the AFL
There is also this from the US - http://www.sportsafetyinternational.org ... met-study/
And this from Australasian science - http://www.australasianscience.com.au/a ... dache.html
The post-concussion management is really important but helmets, unfortunately, don't prevent it.
There's lots of research though and maybe there will be a helmet that does work in the near future - as I noted, there's lots of money to be made by the person who comes up with this...
TFD