Not a Roberton fan

[WellardSaint]

Height- 194 cm
Cannot play like a 194 cm tall player, must have a "Gilbo" role of loose man (unaccountable) getting easy kicks.
Can't spoil, mark, tackle, or apply pressure.
We need a Rance or Josh Gibson type, instead he plays like a 12 year-old chasing kicks.
Tony74, your silence on this can be taken to mean you agree with me.

[st.byron]

Wellard Saint. Have been having a look at your posting history......can't find much in the way of positive posts or anything you actually like about the Saints. Lots of bagging specific players, the coach and the team in general. Lots of posts about how crap we are.
And now you've started a thread specifically to pot Roberton. It's an ugly OP. What's the point of starting a thread with a post like that?
It's the kind of OP that can only result in an ugly thread.
Am very tempted to just lock it or delete it before it has the chance to gather any momentum.

What do you hope to achieve with a post like that? Why should the thread remain open?

[WellardSaint]

I defended Billings in numerous posts.
Feel great about the likes of the Mav, Membrey, Bwoose, Dunstan, Armo, Steven, Madonna, to name a few.
Don't believe Robbo brings any real value to the team unless we are in a winning position.
It is a subjective judgement as to whether my OP is belittling or insulting, I believe I am offering a critical personal opinion and not offensive at all.

[Myron Gaines]

Wellard Saint. Have been having a look at your posting history......can't find much in the way of positive posts or anything you actually like about the Saints. Lots of bagging specific players, the coach and the team in general. Lots of posts about how crap we are.
And now you've started a thread specifically to pot Roberton. It's an ugly OP. What's the point of starting a thread with a post like that?
It's the kind of OP that can only result in an ugly thread.
Am very tempted to just lock it or delete it before it has the chance to gather any momentum.

What do you hope to achieve with a post like that? Why should the thread remain open?

He's not attacking the bloke personally, he's being critical of his footy talent & role in the team. What's the problem?

Anyway, I disagree with the op. Robbo offers a lot of versatility & has a knack for finding space & being a get out option between the back half. Similar role to Roo but in the opposite end of the field. However I would like to see his defensive game improve & become a trustworthy option to play on medium talls when required.

[kosifantutti]

It's just semantics. I would say I'm a fan of anyone pulling on the red, white and black. It doesn't mean I rate them all.

Who is Madonna?

[BigMart]

Delete this thread.... Everyone should walk away from the forum...

Whether the op is fair or valid is up to the people on the forum to decide and if they want the can reply and argue the point!!!

It's not up to a person to decide whether it should stay because they don't like the opinion. The forum isn't about them.

The op isn't personal, it's footy related, it's discussion provoking... It's absolutely ok IMO .... Which doesn't necessarily mean I agree with it

This idea that we can only be positive, only be good supporters if we are positive and can't state any criticism is ridiculous.

If we are not allowed to challenge pathetic performances or poor decisions... Why bother with a discussion forum??

People need to stop being so precious and see it for what it is, and not what they want it to be... And allow people to express their views

Censorship drove me away once

Delete this thread... It proves that this 'forum' is being controlled by people not mederated

[MC Gusto]

My view is roberton is one of the most underrated players on our list

[WellardSaint]

It's just semantics. I would say I'm a fan of anyone pulling on the red, white and black. It doesn't mean I rate them all.

Who is Madonna?

Paddy- i think his team-mates called him that because of the gap in front teeth

[HitTheBoundary]

Delete this thread.... Everyone should walk away from the forum...

Whether the op is fair or valid is up to the people on the forum to decide and if they want the can reply and argue the point!!!

It's not up to a person to decide whether it should stay because they don't like the opinion. The forum isn't about them.

The op isn't personal, it's footy related, it's discussion provoking... It's absolutely ok IMO .... Which doesn't necessarily mean I agree with it

This idea that we can only be positive, only be good supporters if we are positive and can't state any criticism is ridiculous.

If we are not allowed to challenge pathetic performances or poor decisions... Why bother with a discussion forum??

People need to stop being so precious and see it for what it is, and not what they want it to be... And allow people to express their views

Censorship drove me away once

Delete this thread... It proves that this 'forum' is being controlled by people not mederated

If you don't like it here you could always join the Drama Queen forum.

[skeptic]

I think Richardson has really stitched Roberton up by bring him straight back from injury when he was clearly underdone.

The last month he hasn't been good... He can be a lot better.

IMO one thing the St.Kilda football club has really failed to grasp over the last 5 seasons is the concept of running defenders. They're suppose to be players that are really good defenders that can provide some drive, or weaker defenders (as part of a greater defensive unit) with elite foot skills and speed that demand their opponents be accountable.

Roberton, Savage, Webster, Gilbert, Murdoch, Wright - we seem to have an abundance of players that aren't really one or the other. Just middle players.

To be honest, I would like to see Lee get a run in that position... He can play taller and what we'd lose in run, we'd gain in defence and disposal.

[Moods]

I think Richardson has really stitched Roberton up by bring him straight back from injury when he was clearly underdone.

The last month he hasn't been good... He can be a lot better.

IMO one thing the St.Kilda football club has really failed to grasp over the last 5 seasons is the concept of running defenders. They're suppose to be players that are really good defenders that can provide some drive, or weaker defenders (as part of a greater defensive unit) with elite foot skills and speed that demand their opponents be accountable.

Roberton, Savage, Webster, Gilbert, Murdoch, Wright - we seem to have an abundance of players that aren't really one or the other. Just middle players.

To be honest, I would like to see Lee get a run in that position... He can play taller and what we'd lose in run, we'd gain in defence and disposal.

The funny thing is, when Richo brought him straight back in, posters argued that this was evidence of his importance to the team. I was one of a very minority who argued very much along the lines of the OP. Roberton brings very little to the team. In fact our backline without Fish is extremely disappointing. Dempster being asked to play far too tall because we have no height. Goddard is no where near ready and the jury is out on whether he ever will be. He looks too slow at this stage, but obviously still very young so I'm not writing him off yet.

Not sure what the Robbo lovers on here see in him? To me he is not quick, not strong, not tall and has average skills and average decision making.

[magnifisaint]

Edit

[magnifisaint]

Definitely need Roberton in the team. You need rebounding defenders to set the team up to go forward. You also need a couple of big backs to play on the gorilla forwards of which Dempster and Fisher aren't. Roberton plays more like a winger than a defender but we need him in defence to plug holes. We are very deficient down there and he just had a bad last game.
It's definitely Worth giving Delaney and Lee a go for the next 6 weeks. Roberton is just the support cast and he plays it well. He's not a key defender but I am a fan.

[loris]

Tony74, your silence on this can be taken to mean you agree with me.

What a load a cods wallop! Silence DOES NOT and NEVER HAS implied tacit approval/agreement.

I hope you are not in a supervisory, leadership position in your work place, if you are with this type of assumption there would be a lot of staff laughing at you behind your back.

Very poor form IMHO to post using tony74 name like this. Stick to your own misguided views(IMHO) don't assume they are tony74's

[SaintPav]

Tony74, your silence on this can be taken to mean you agree with me.

What a load a cods wallop! Silence DOES NOT and NEVER HAS implied tacit approval/agreement.

I hope you are not in a supervisory, leadership position in your work place, if you are with this type of assumption there would be a lot of staff laughing at you behind your back.

Very poor form IMHO to post using tony74 name like this. Stick to your own misguided views(IMHO) don't assume they are tony74's

We put Loris.

+1

[Wombat15]

I can say im not much of a roberton fan either but can understand him playing if no one else in the reserves is standing up. I get that he provides drive off the half back line and his role is obviously not 3rd man up. i think the thing that frustrates me most about him is his disposal efficiency and his composure under pressure. I cant remember the games but theres been a few times where hes gotten the ball and doesnt make the clean pass to a team mate and it puts us under pressure, the composure ive seen a couple times where the pressure is coming and he'll turn back into the contest rather than following the flow of the team when they are trying to switch out the other side. I get that hes going to be a focal point of our defense and i guess we are going to have to live with that. but i would like to see those areas of his game improve because i get the impression that teams want the ball in his hands. it reminds me of what teams used to do to us back in 2006-09ish when teams would funnel the defense in such a way where it would force Jimmy Gwilt or Jason Blake to make the final decision from the back. Now im not saying its a disaster having him back there but he certainly needs to improve if he wants to play a pivotal role in the years to come.

[skeptic]

The thing is, Aussie Jones wasn't a particularly crash hot defender...
He had the strengths in his game to compensate for it... If he had a hand in 4-5-6 goals for us, or plays that led to goals... Who cared if his direct opponent kicked 2-3.

As it turned out, opposition needed to put defensive mids on him in their own forward line.

I don't see the quality that Roberton is bringing at the moment

[WellardSaint]

Rhys Stanley was retained by the club purely because of physical attributes of height, speed and athleticism.
Had a bit of skill; the hope was that he could learn to use those attributes on the field.
Roberton has height and seems to have fitness- can run a bit. He has enough games under his belt now to refine his game, but has stalled.
I wish he could be like Harry Taylor of Geelong, but too often he goes to ground, gets outbodied in the contest and only appears in the stats sheet showing easy outside kicks.
Never inspires confidence when the ball is coming into the back 50, whereas Dempster can take that saving mark or do the spoil.
194cm.
Look at the Great Wall SUV, it's a 4WD by definition, but it can't perform like a Landcruiser off-road.
Looks like an off-road vehicle, but does NOT perform the way its looks will imply.
"Roberton- 194 cm defender"

"Great Wall- 4WD off roader"

On paper spec doesn't transfer to real world capability

[BigMart]

You see hit the boundary

That's exactly what I mean... And you've proved my point

You have made a completely unnecessary comment... Direct and me personally... Nothing to do with footy.

And that's the sort of crap the gets let go, but make a critical comment about the coaches or players and you're a 'moderated' troll

At the end of the day, it's censorship. Not allowing people to have their opinion... Or instead of debating their opinion

Just making a pathetic personal insult... Like you just did. Luckily, It just means someone neither has the knowledge or ability to argue the point, therefore they are irrelevant anyway!

[HitTheBoundary]

You see hit the boundary

That's exactly what I mean... And you've proved my point

You have made a completely unnecessary comment... Direct and me personally... Nothing to do with footy.

And that's the sort of crap the gets let go, but make a critical comment about the coaches or players and you're a 'moderated' troll

At the end of the day, it's censorship. Not allowing people to have their opinion... Or instead of debating their opinion

Just making a pathetic personal insult... Like you just did. Luckily, It just means someone neither has the knowledge or ability to argue the point, therefore they are irrelevant anyway!

The irony of your comment is that your original comment had nothing to do with footy, or the OP, you had nothing to say about Roberton, and your post was directed at attacking (trolling?) other members of the forum.

But continue on with your straw man arguments and self imposed sense of martyrdom.

You continually confuse others disagreeing with you, or pointing out how whiney you are, as not being allowed to state your opinion.

Where is the censorship? Has this thread disappeared? Have comments been removed?
No they haven't - once again you are King of the Straw Men.

And as for the OP, I think Roberton is one of the most under rated players on our list.

[Con Gorozidis]

My view is roberton is one of the most underrated players on our list

I just dont see it right now. I used to be a big fan of his and really thought he was going to be a long term top liner for us. I thought this for at least two seasons.
He did his ankle terribly and then last year I really thought he was back in business. I expected him to be a top 5 player for us this year. My posting history would show this very positive view I had of him.

But now I really have my doubts.

I think he is terrific on paper and in theory. Tough 194cm bloke who can run! Wow he sounds like a player! He is a pretty good tackler as well. But I am really having my doubts now. He is basically a non entity in the air. He doesnt get a fist in like blokes such as Rance, Wood and Gibson seem to manage all the time - even when out of position. Roberton plays small and as a running defender but his pace is mediocre and his kicking and decision making are mediocre. The only thing I think he is above average at are tackling and height - and he doesnt use his height at all. He might as well be 184 cm. He is definitely not 'under-rated' from what I have seen this year. If anything he is rated on what he brings on paper and in theory. He ought to be good. But is he actually that good? He also has a tendency to go missing for large chunks of games. It isnt like he is picking up opposition guns either. I certainly dont remember him out marking a key fwd ever.

Dempster for instance out marks a key forward at least once a week. Same with Fisher.

I think the jury remains out.

[WellardSaint]

HtB, don't attack BigMart for having an opinion.
Stay on topic.
As for Robbo, 'underrated'? By whom?

Both coaches gave him votes against Freo. Lyon and AR rate him.
Injured knee, back into seniors without hesitation.
Unanimous tick of approval by Match Committee.

They rate him.
I don't rate Robbo, so I don't agree with them.

[Con Gorozidis]

HtB, don't attack BigMart for having an opinion.
Stay on topic.
As for Robbo, 'underrated'? By whom?

Both coaches gave him votes against Freo. Lyon and AR rate him.
Injured knee, back into seniors without hesitation.
Unanimous tick of approval by Match Committee.

They rate him.
I don't rate Robbo, so I don't agree with them.

Inside Footy are fairly objective and unbiased. This is what they think:

http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... n-ROBERTON

Two good games. One mediocre. One poor. Three very poor.

The reality is he isnt currently in the top 10 in the Saints B & F and we are bottom 6 and he is 25 years old.

Jury still out.

[HitTheBoundary]

Wellard if you read the post of Bigmarts I quoted it was about lecturing the rest of us and didn't discuss Roberton. Hence my reaction.

Why do I think Robbo is underrated?

Admittedly it's on past form - the way he played a couple of years ago before he got injured. I'm judging him on that expectation, that he will return to that player that he was.

At the moment I think it's very difficult to judge any of the back line accurately, as we've been playing undersized and half of them are treacle slow.

I think Roberton has good value as a HBF type or winger where he can take marks and run forward. I think his delivery is reasonable and his marking is good.

As Con pointed out he doesn't play as a key position tall, but I think his intercept marking is pretty good. Like most of the backline he's been under the pump as we've been getting flogged out of the middle.
So in essence I think he has good upside but has been poor of late (but is not on his own there.)

We'll have a better idea next year, assuming Carlisle plays well. Having a 200cm marking backman will change the nature of the entire backline, and allow others to play roles they're more suited to.

[White Winmar]

Not a great kick. We desperately need more rebounding power from defence. Robo is a GOP in my opinion, but he doesn't seem to be capable of hurting the opposition too much. The likes of Newnes, Webster, Savage and I hope, Brandon White seem to be the future. A Jarrod Berry in the upcoming draft is the type we need. Tall, mobile and a good kick, he is touted as a top fiver. If Tom Lee was more physical, he would be ideal. If Robo could kick like Lee, that would be an answer.