Development

[The_President]

Who looks after our development?
How much time & energy does the club put into not only making the draftees feel comfortable but also helping them grow as footballers and people?
What systems and structures do we have in place?

As a supporter base we tend to blame "bad luck" on most of our picks not working out, or blaming the players themselves. But with the amount of top 30 picks we've had in recent years, it can't ALL be the players or bad luck, can it?

2012
Nathan Wright (24)
Spencer White (25)
We also got Hickey this year.
White & Wright have achieved nothing. Hickey has gone backwards.

2013
Billings (3)
Dunstan (18)
Acres (19)
Traded for Billy Longer (Pick 8 in 2011)
Billings & Acres are finally showing a bit, but they aren't as consistent as they should be into their 5th season now.
Dunstan has shown glimpses, but through either form or favour hasn't come on like he we would've wanted.
Longer was a high draft pick (captain of the Vic team from memory) turned out to be a big useless spud that can't even mark the ball.

2014
McCartin (1)
Goddard (21)
McKenzie (22)
Probably too early to make a call. McCartin certainly has issues - we all know the arguments.
Goddard's had injuries, but hasn't set the world of fire in the VFL
McKenzie is a goer. That's about it.

2015

Gresham (18)
White (40)
Rice (49)
Gresham has shown plenty, but if he doesn't develop a tank to go through the middle, he might end up being a one trick pony.
White and Rice have shown nothing at this point (although it is very early)

We've also given up on guys like Stanley, Tom Lynch, McEvoy who have all become important players in teams much better than the ones they got traded from.

Players that we've picked up like Bruce, Membrey, Roberton & Steele have all become important players for us, but all did their initial development at other clubs.

Are we going to become a wasteland for top draft picks?

[desertsaint]

it's our biggest problem and has been for years - our kids either take forever to come good or stagnate and then whither.
richo came with a good development rep - but as main coach has shown nothing to back it up.
i think the system he plays, like the system ross played, stymies natural development. dunstan's accidental admission revealed a bit more than the coach would have liked, but the proof is there to see.
none of our trades have improved over the last season bar roberton. billings has come on slowly for a pick 3. gresh is basically the same player as day one, lonie has gone backwards, dunstan stagnated, acres may finally be coming on, paddy nup, sinclair has improved, but looks like dropping off again, steele too early to know if he's better than at the giants - couldn't make the team, and would be further off it now, webster has stagnated, Bruce has gone backwards, Membrey improved, the rucks have gone way backwards. Don't even want to mention the P lad. Only Ross and Geary have improved amongst the lads already here when richo came - and that with natural aging. As for the lads in the vfl - almost time to call it quits on all of them. no improvement shown - no opportunity to show it.

Nothing to suggest we have done anything but hurt these lads, as we have done in the past. Look at Cripps, Lynch, and McEvoy since they left - all big improvers very quickly. I reckon our kids like acres, dunstan, gresh, billings would be killing it at another club by now and paddy may even have a career.

[Drake Huggins]

Who looks after our development?
How much time & energy does the club put into not only making the draftees feel comfortable but also helping them grow as footballers and people?
What systems and structures do we have in place?

As a supporter base we tend to blame "bad luck" on most of our picks not working out, or blaming the players themselves. But with the amount of top 30 picks we've had in recent years, it can't ALL be the players or bad luck, can it?

2012
Nathan Wright (24)
Spencer White (25)
We also got Hickey this year.
White & Wright have achieved nothing. Hickey has gone backwards.

2013
Billings (3)
Dunstan (18)
Acres (19)
Traded for Billy Longer (Pick 8 in 2011)
Billings & Acres are finally showing a bit, but they aren't as consistent as they should be into their 5th season now.
Dunstan has shown glimpses, but through either form or favour hasn't come on like he we would've wanted.
Longer was a high draft pick (captain of the Vic team from memory) turned out to be a big useless spud that can't even mark the ball.

2014
McCartin (1)
Goddard (21)
McKenzie (22)
Probably too early to make a call. McCartin certainly has issues - we all know the arguments.
Goddard's had injuries, but hasn't set the world of fire in the VFL
McKenzie is a goer. That's about it.

2015

Gresham (18)
White (40)
Rice (49)
Gresham has shown plenty, but if he doesn't develop a tank to go through the middle, he might end up being a one trick pony.
White and Rice have shown nothing at this point (although it is very early)

We've also given up on guys like Stanley, Tom Lynch, McEvoy who have all become important players in teams much better than the ones they got traded from.

Players that we've picked up like Bruce, Membrey, Roberton & Steele have all become important players for us, but all did their initial development at other clubs.

Are we going to become a wasteland for top draft picks?

Hammer. Nail. Head. Great post. This is the greatest challenge the club faces. Our development and player management by the coaches is amongst the worst in the league. How are our Irish boys going, btw? Connor McKenna at the dopers is already an important senior player, who has just signed a contract extension. Our boys haven't even created a frisson of excitement.

What's happened to McKenzie and White? DMac was talked up as the next big thing at the club after a sizzling preseason in 2017. Then nothing. White? Has oodles of ability, but has played only 4 games and is in his third season. Hickey? A mystery. Has had injuries, but also had his confidence shattered by TMBK's insistence on playing Ballast Billy ahead of him, despite the overwhelming evidence that Tom is the vastly superior player.

Imagine if MBK had invested games into Tom to help his confidence after return from injury, rather than giving Ballast Billy game after game. No wonder Tom's confidence was shattered when he came back against Essendon last year. He was awful, but BB has been just as bad or worse in the majority of his senior career. How about dumping BB after his round 1 shocker, the way Tom was dumped after one game? The results speak for themselves. Our best ruckman by far is struggling and the incumbent is a liability.

What of Paddy? Remember the time they withdrew him from a Friday night game with a tight hamstring, only to play him in the VFL that same weekend? No wonder the kid is confused. TMBK also admitted that Paddy's skin folds have never got under 60, whereas the elites are in the low 40's.That's a disgrace for someone in his fourth year. No wonder he can't run. What on earth is the coaching and fitness staff doing? It has also been reported that he does the minimum required. Why is he not being forced to do extra? If diabetes prevents him from getting an AFL level of fitness, then he is shot. Instead of blaming him, TMBK should demand he gets his skin folds to an acceptable level , or get traded.

Lastly, your observation of our trade pick ups being amongst our best is telling. All did their crucial early development with other clubs. If that isn't a pointer to what is wrong, nothing is.

[Con Gorozidis]

The coaching and conditioning staff need to wear a hell of a lot of the blame.
Probably the worst in the league.
Most of our players are unfit and can't kick under pressure.
Probably because they are fatigued.

Strange that the coach has punished Dunstan after he accidentally let slip he needed to ignore the coaches to get the best out of himself.

[spert]

I don't think Richo is as highly regarded in AFL coaching circles as the club would like to think. Our development of players on the cusp of the next step has been appalling, and many have gone backwards. I reckon Billings would be playing with a lot more urgency if he was a Hawk or Cat, but just seems to be coasting on natural ability, same for Gresham and a couple of others who really should have had two big games under their belts so far this season, but just do enough and that's it- and the story of our team last season mostly.

It should not take emergency crisis, take a good look at yourself, types of meetings so early in a season to get the team up and about.

I think Richo has lost the mental game with the players.

[Moods]

TMBK also admitted that Paddy's skin folds have never got under 60, whereas the elites are in the low 40's.That's a disgrace for someone in his fourth year. No wonder he can't run. What on earth is the coaching and fitness staff doing? It has also been reported that he does the minimum required. Why is he not being forced to do extra? If diabetes prevents him from getting an AFL level of fitness, then he is shot. Instead of blaming him, TMBK should demand he gets his skin folds to an acceptable level , or get traded.

When did Richo say this? When was he discussing Paddy's skinfolds? Has it really been said that Paddy just does the bare minimum? If ANY of this is true, then it's a disgrace.

I've been saying this for ages. Our kids just aren't coming on and NONE of them look like being superstars. I don't know why, but it's a fact whether ppl want to believe it or not. Looking at our recruiting is quite depressing.

[Badlands]

Yep. These kids get taken high for a reason. If we didn’t snap them up, someone else would have. It’s too simplistic to lay our current predicament on the shoulders of recruiters. Fact is our young players, the vast majority of them, do not develop at a rate anywhere near that of 17 other clubs. I refuse to accept that it’s a question of talent.

One game does not a season make, but the warning signs were there through most of last year, throughout the JLT and even in round 1.

[The Barometer]

TMBK also admitted that Paddy's skin folds have never got under 60, whereas the elites are in the low 40's.That's a disgrace for someone in his fourth year. No wonder he can't run. What on earth is the coaching and fitness staff doing? It has also been reported that he does the minimum required. Why is he not being forced to do extra? If diabetes prevents him from getting an AFL level of fitness, then he is shot. Instead of blaming him, TMBK should demand he gets his skin folds to an acceptable level , or get traded.

When did Richo say this? When was he discussing Paddy's skinfolds? Has it really been said that Paddy just does the bare minimum? If ANY of this is true, then it's a disgrace.

I've been saying this for ages. Our kids just aren't coming on and NONE of them look like being superstars. I don't know why, but it's a fact whether ppl want to believe it or not. Looking at our recruiting is quite depressing.

Not aware of Richo saying it however Matt Lloyd was saying last night that he had spoken to people at the club who indicated Paddy did the minimum.

[stonecold]

TMBK also admitted that Paddy's skin folds have never got under 60, whereas the elites are in the low 40's.That's a disgrace for someone in his fourth year. No wonder he can't run. What on earth is the coaching and fitness staff doing? It has also been reported that he does the minimum required. Why is he not being forced to do extra? If diabetes prevents him from getting an AFL level of fitness, then he is shot. Instead of blaming him, TMBK should demand he gets his skin folds to an acceptable level , or get traded.

When did Richo say this? When was he discussing Paddy's skinfolds? Has it really been said that Paddy just does the bare minimum? If ANY of this is true, then it's a disgrace.

I've been saying this for ages. Our kids just aren't coming on and NONE of them look like being superstars. I don't know why, but it's a fact whether ppl want to believe it or not. Looking at our recruiting is quite depressing.

Not aware of Richo saying it however Matt Lloyd was saying last night that he had spoken to people at the club who indicated Paddy did the minimum.

Richo has never said it, full-stop!!!!!

Also, no-one of any Significance at St.Kilda FC would even give Matthew Lloyd the time of day!!!!!

[Drake Huggins]

TMBK also admitted that Paddy's skin folds have never got under 60, whereas the elites are in the low 40's.That's a disgrace for someone in his fourth year. No wonder he can't run. What on earth is the coaching and fitness staff doing? It has also been reported that he does the minimum required. Why is he not being forced to do extra? If diabetes prevents him from getting an AFL level of fitness, then he is shot. Instead of blaming him, TMBK should demand he gets his skin folds to an acceptable level , or get traded.

When did Richo say this? When was he discussing Paddy's skinfolds? Has it really been said that Paddy just does the bare minimum? If ANY of this is true, then it's a disgrace.

I've been saying this for ages. Our kids just aren't coming on and NONE of them look like being superstars. I don't know why, but it's a fact whether ppl want to believe it or not. Looking at our recruiting is quite depressing.

Not aware of Richo saying it however Matt Lloyd was saying last night that he had spoken to people at the club who indicated Paddy did the minimum.

TMBK was quoted on SEN. Lloyd made the claim on FC last night, while adding that if the staff couldn't get him right, he should be doing it himself by asking for extra work or recognising what he's been doing isn't working. He also clearly stated McCartin was not AFL fit. Stating the bleedin' obvious there. Gerard Healy ( lifelong passionate saints man) on 3AW today said he agreed with Lloyd.

[st.byron]

The coaching and conditioning staff need to wear a hell of a lot of the blame.
Probably the worst in the league.
Most of our players are unfit and can't kick under pressure.
Probably because they are fatigued.

Strange that the coach has punished Dunstan after he accidentally let slip he needed to ignore the coaches to get the best out of himself.

Oh ffs Con. “Most of our players are unfit”. Absolute rubbish mate. Of course they’re bloody fit. People keep wanting to lay the source of our malaise at the feet of physical conditioning and skills. There is a hair’s breadth between afl clubs with their levels of physical capability. That’s why smart clubs are investing in mind training. It’s training what’s between their ears that’s the leading edge. That and a dedicated development program looking at not just a players physicality and motor skills, but life and mental skills as well. This archaic thinking of “ work em harder on the track” that Richo trotted out after last weekends debacle will keep us firmly rooted in the bottom. 8. How much time do you reckon we are investing in training the players to focus their mental capabilities? SFA.

[stonecold]

TMBK also admitted that Paddy's skin folds have never got under 60, whereas the elites are in the low 40's.What on earth is the coaching and fitness staff doing? It has also been reported that he does the minimum required. Why is he not being forced to do extra? If diabetes prevents him from getting an AFL level of fitness, then he is shot. Instead of blaming him, TMBK should demand he gets his skin folds to an acceptable level , or get traded.

When did Richo say this? When was he discussing Paddy's skinfolds? Has it really been said that Paddy just does the bare minimum? If ANY of this is true, then it's a disgrace.

I've been saying this for ages. Our kids just aren't coming on and NONE of them look like being superstars. I don't know why, but it's a fact whether ppl want to believe it or not. Looking at our recruiting is quite depressing.

Not aware of Richo saying it however Matt Lloyd was saying last night that he had spoken to people at the club who indicated Paddy did the minimum.

TMBK was quoted on SEN. Lloyd made the claim on FC last night, while adding that if the staff couldn't get him right, he should be doing it himself by asking for extra work or recognising what he's been doing isn't working. He also clearly stated McCartin was not AFL fit. Stating the bleedin' obvious there. Gerard Healy ( lifelong passionate saints man) on 3AW today said he agreed with Lloyd.

Richo Quoted!!!!! Proof?????

Lloyd Claimed!!!!! No Proof!!!!!