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Some fairly deep inside the club intel here been given to Peter Ryan
So, mid Geelong game - the players had to go to the coaches to ask for an extra in front of the ball but the coaches didn’t believe in their players (mids) enough to do that in the first place? Faaaark!
The coaches didn’t realize that Paddy couldn’t run like Roo so had to change the game plan? Faaaark!
Playfair Schytney defensive coaching/set-up has left players in no man’s land (presumably our new ‘guarding grass’ disease)?
My God. In the words of Slobbo .... I’m flabberbasted
What a rabble. Poor/horrendous coaching is clearly a major issue. Flick em Lethers. ASAP
Last edited by Saintmatt on Sat 16 Jun 2018 2:55pm, edited 1 time in total.
The problem stems from our one-paced one-dimensional midfield - as a result of poor recruiting.
We have not recruited for balance - we kept recruiting inside midfielders, and average ones at that.
There’s little any coach can do about this. Our balance is totally out of whack.
Equally, we can’t blame the coach that Riewoldt and Montagna retired or our injury woes, or the poor form of our players.
We need classy outside midfielders to balance things up - and after we rebalance things, then we can start judging the coach.
Last edited by samoht on Sat 16 Jun 2018 12:02pm, edited 1 time in total.
samoht wrote: ↑Sat 16 Jun 2018 11:54am
The problem stems from our one-paced one-dimensional midfield - as a result of poor recruiting.
We have not recruited for balance - we kept recruiting inside midfielders, and average ones at that.
There’s little any coach can do about this. Our balance is totally out of whack.
Equally, we can’t blame the coach that Riewoldt and Montagna retired or our injury woes, or the poor form of our players.
We need classy outside midfielders to balance things up - and after we rebalance things, then we can start judging the coach.
I’m not convinced the coach isn’t blameless. What has he tried to fix this mess?
Whack Billings in there. Gresham. Acres. Webster. Sinclair. Try SOMETHING.
But, no. He’ll stick with his good, solid grunts and an approach that fails week after week and year after year.
I don’t think ours is a great list, but neither is it as horrid as it’s been playing. The coach must wear some of that.
The balance problem you speak of is largely of his making and preferences.
So according to the article, they underestimated the loss of Roo, Joey, including leadership issues, at the same time tried to implement some different game methods through Playfair which obviously caused some confusion and loss of cohesion, copped some fairly important injuries which compounded the issues, continued to be inaccurate in goal kicking despite employing a specialist coach, the 50-100 game players have not stepped up as expected, and coaching plans were often not adapted to required game style or sometimes the opposition.
Seems reasonable to equate the above with 3rd bottom. Simon Lethlean the man to make recommendations for change. Will be interesting future changes, Elshaug gone already, but seems a sensible approach to me.
samoht wrote: ↑Sat 16 Jun 2018 11:54am
The problem stems from our one-paced one-dimensional midfield - as a result of poor recruiting.
We have not recruited for balance - we kept recruiting inside midfielders, and average ones at that.
There’s little any coach can do about this. Our balance is totally out of whack.
Equally, we can’t blame the coach that Riewoldt and Montagna retired or our injury woes, or the poor form of our players.
We need classy outside midfielders to balance things up - and after we rebalance things, then we can start judging the coach.
I’m not convinced the coach isn’t blameless. What has he tried to fix this mess?
Whack Billings in there. Gresham. Acres. Webster. Sinclair. Try SOMETHING.
But, no. He’ll stick with his good, solid grunts and an approach that fails week after week and year after year.
I don’t think ours is a great list, but neither is it as horrid as it’s been playing. The coach must wear some of that.
The balance problem you speak of is largely of his making and preferences.
He did. He played Acres in the ruck.
After that, he realised he had NFI.
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
Acres was only relieving - and wasn’t injured as a result of his brief forays in the ruck.
That’s another weakness - we have average ruckmen - Hickey is not physical enough and Longer only has his physicality to offer. None of them kick goals - so we can only play one average ruckman at a time, unless we want another slow and ineffective passenger.
Our side is full of weaknesses that no coach can overcome - due to poor recruiting (we did not recruit for balance).
We have a plethora of average inside midfielders, half back flankers and ruckmen.
You can only fit so many average pegs/players in the same hole/position.
Where’s the balance?
We have the DNA of a bottom 4 side. Any coach would be powerless given all this- plus our injuries.
Connellan and Joyce should have come in this week - my only criticism (if the coach made the call).
portosaint wrote: ↑Sat 16 Jun 2018 12:01pm
I stopped reading when I hit the McCartin paragraph.
No one, and I repeat, no one would have ever thought Paddy would play the same role as Roo. Not even our inept coaching staff.
Just another s*** journo writing what everyone already knows.
Yes, that is complete bulls***, as you've noted. I think there'd have been more concern over Bruce not being able to make more of an impact in that regard, as he could be closer to Roo as a mobile forward than McCartin ever was, or will be.
portosaint wrote: ↑Sat 16 Jun 2018 12:01pm
I stopped reading when I hit the McCartin paragraph.
No one, and I repeat, no one would have ever thought Paddy would play the same role as Roo. Not even our inept coaching staff.
Just another s*** journo writing what everyone already knows.
On the contrary ... I had no idea the players had gone to the coaches (mid game!) asking for a different structure.
That’s news to me and gives some context around why they played better against GWS the week after.
Yeah thats fair enough.
Nick Dal Santo made comment during that game about the Saints forwards and their on field bickering about how they were to set up defensively. It was so unbelievably obvious how they were falling down in that match... Possibly the WORST display of top-level coaching I have ever witnessed.
Anyways, reported after the game (T74 included if my memory serves me correct) that the players did ask questions and demanded more input into the following weeks game vs GWS. Unsurprisingly, they had a crack and looked a different team... Then the following week AR and the like took the reigns again and, voila!
it is strange that we have receuited so many inside mids and half backs and small forwards - would good to know if this was a deliberate strategy. surely it had to be, and if so, surely the coaches would be driving it.
i mean why recruit steele and steven instead of quick mids? why is newnes so often taking a position played much better by sinclair? lonie, minch, long, gresham, wright, billings, weller, all fighting for the same few spots and we play acres, newnes, clark, and sincs there as well. heck even dunstan has been thrown there.
it just reeks of poor recruiting. we need to offload most of the above - there are a few that stand out the rest can go. we need a competent ruck and a couple of quick mids. always have since richo took over. and here we are five years later.
"The starting point of all achievement is desire. "
desertsaint wrote: ↑Sat 16 Jun 2018 4:02pm
it is strange that we have receuited so many inside mids and half backs and small forwards - would good to know if this was a deliberate strategy. surely it had to be, and if so, surely the coaches would be driving it.
i mean why recruit steele and steven instead of quick mids? why is newnes so often taking a position played much better by sinclair? lonie, minch, long, gresham, wright, billings, weller, all fighting for the same few spots and we play acres, newnes, clark, and sincs there as well. heck even dunstan has been thrown there.
it just reeks of poor recruiting. we need to offload most of the above - there are a few that stand out the rest can go. we need a competent ruck and a couple of quick mids. always have since richo took over. and here we are five years later.
Agree. We need to offload as many of the Newnes, Weller, Wright, Lonie, DMac etc as possible for as many 2nd and 3rd round picks as we can get...if any takers. Both Hickey and Longer on the table also. I'd even throw a Dunstan or Ross up to see who bites, as we have too many average insiders as it is. We need to get back in this years draft and trade period and it may mean we loose something we want to keep but we need drastic changes to the list.
stkfc1 wrote: ↑Sat 16 Jun 2018 5:15pm
I'd even throw a Dunstan or Ross up to see who bites, as we have too many average insiders as it is. We need to get back in this years draft and trade period and it may mean we loose something we want to keep but we need drastic changes to the list.
Ross' run last season was a major factor in our wins and his B&F win. Last season he backed his pace and was rarely caught. He used the ball well and was very creative.
Dunstan has turned it around from last year and is the obvious replacement for the in & under mid that Armo was.
Those two should be kept.
Armo's inclusion this week is somewhat bewildering. Yes, he got a lot of ball last week, but he looked SLOW. He was caught more times than he should have been and had panicked disposals as a result.
yeah i'd keep ross and dunstan - are our best two mids looking ahead. but we can't have any more slow mids than those two playing inside at any one time. just need speed around them.
"The starting point of all achievement is desire. "
desertsaint wrote: ↑Sat 16 Jun 2018 5:49pm
yeah i'd keep ross and dunstan - are our best two mids looking ahead. but we can't have any more slow mids than those two playing inside at any one time. just need speed around them.
