What are we selling to free agents?

[Waltzing St Kilda]

"Hey, Joe Magicfoot, you should come to the Saints for 2020. We reckon we could win nine, even ten matches this year -- that's not bad, eh? We reckon Paddy and Roberton and Gears and Hanners and Carlisle might even be a chance of playing next season. And to top it all off, we'll have as our coach Mr Nice Guy, Alan Richardson, coming off his sixth successive finals-free season."

The point is, the courting of free agents is a season-long process. And unless we're doing something behind the scenes then Carlton and North are in the box seat to snap up the exciting the new coaching prospects and with them the exciting free agents. We were behind the eightball when Ro$$ walked out after the elimination final loss and then when Watters was sacked after the Best & Fairest. Let's not be in the position again.

[skeptic]

Things being what they are...

All we can do is target the right players deprived of opportunity and get them in to improve our top 22 and be more competitive. Once we actually look like a team on the up, that’s when we can target the major FAs.

See, the thing that so many loyalists on this forum overlook when defending Richo, bang on about how beating some minnow injury effected teams makes us look finals bound, support Shanghai, and bang on about how some mediocre players could be elite etc etc is that it effects the brand.

Our brand is our livelihood.

Our brand is what draws elite players, gets blockbuster games, signs up members etc

And under Richo over 5 years... we do not have a very attractive brand. In fact, the cold hard reality is our brand is loser’ish. Unattractive mediocre performance on a background of underachievement with fans high-fiving after 2 goal wins vs Carlton.

Nothing about us is remotely attractive. Who would want to come here?

If Richo really is gone like is now the common perception... they need to pull the trigger and start a new phase

[Annoyedsaint]

It’s like trying to sell ice to the eskimos, they just aren’t buying it. Double up effect is we are left with salary cap money that has to be paid, so we then offer someone past their best an overs contract.
Hopefully Hannebery becomes a serviceable player at the very least as I don’t believe he will ever get back to his best of 5-6 years ago.

Once something becomes sustainable in an upward trend then we can attract true A graders.

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

We have plenty to sell to potential FA's and trade targets IMO.

Personally, I would love to train and work out of RSEA Park and live in a nearby Bayside suburb in Melbourne on a footy players wage.

Lots of good assistants and development coaches to work under.

Good bunch of blokes in the playing group it seems.

Exciting crop of young talent that will really gel soon.

Lack of recent finals appearance might hurt but why not be a star that is part of that next finals crusade to glory!

[skeptic]

We have plenty to sell to potential FA's and trade targets IMO.

Personally, I would love to train and work out of RSEA Park and live in a nearby Bayside suburb in Melbourne on a footy players wage.

Lots of good assistants and development coaches to work under.

Good bunch of blokes in the playing group it seems.

Exciting crop of young talent that will really gel soon.

Lack of recent finals appearance might hurt but why not be a star that is part of that next finals crusade to glory!

Come on Ted, be serious.

Good blokes, exiting talent... applicable to 17 other teams, most of which have performed better over time.
All geographical places have their pluses and minuses

You’re kidding yourself if you think that the club message and marketing is looking good at the moment...
compare it to GT’s first year when we finished 15th... the young Saints team that was going to turn it all around... no rejects from other clubs, St.Kilda ppl to fix St.Kilda problems.

Malcolm Blights the ride.
Ross Lyon’s Bubble

Heck even Scott Watters had the ‘we’re finally going to redevelop youth’ angle

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

Your opinion and that is great.

I understand this joint is uber negative on many fronts but the club has lots to promote to potential players. Every club does and the Saints are no different.

I think the Saints are entering a potentially very exciting era so many would or should want to be a part of it IMO.

The club has to keep trying, the Saints will not get anywhere by being negative and giving up on this front. You just keep plugging away.

[Joffa Burns]

Not a free agent but Carslile certainly would have had plenty of suitors.

None of our other recruits in the last couple of years would have attracted the attention of other clubs for varying reasons. Ie. Hannebery wage and injury history over 2 seasons.

We have reportedly thrown decent cash as Fyfe, Shiel, Kelly and others without success, but like North we are not currently a club with a lot if appeal.

The only way to attract decent talent is playing finals or having massive upside such as Brisbane and presenting a respected coaching group and stable club.

Without this we will only attract by paying overs which is fraught with future issue.

[minneapolis]

We have Gubby.

Experience+

Cagey, Successful.

I predict he will get 2 thru the door this year.

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

We have Gubby.

Experience+

Cagey, Successful.

I predict he will get 2 thru the door this year.

Yep. I forgot the Gubbster. He is renowned for such activities and has never ending contacts in AFL circles. He will get players through the hallowed doors of RSEA Park. Bookmark it.

[takeaway]

Slim pickings this year in the FA market - Coniglio, Elliot .... not much else, except Nic Nat who will stay with West Coast. Elliot will probably stay. Don't see many others who would add what we need.

[samoht]

We need to land Coniglio to prove a point to ourselves as much as to future FAs.
After we land him, we could/should start going after future whalesharks in earnest - "don't stop til we/you get enough", as the inimitable MJ would say.

(I'd like to see how good a coach Clarko really is without his regular A grade big fish top ups.
His recruiters are the real and unsung heroes - and from all reports they are into Coniglio big time).

[skeptic]

Your opinion and that is great.

I understand this joint is uber negative on many fronts but the club has lots to promote to potential players. Every club does and the Saints are no different.

I think the Saints are entering a potentially very exciting era so many would or should want to be a part of it IMO.

The club has to keep trying, the Saints will not get anywhere by being negative and giving up on this front. You just keep plugging away.

Your opinion and it’s great... not really supported by recent history though is it. Thrown big money at a number of players over 2 years that said no. In fact many like McGovern ruled the Saints out right away. The guy picked Carlton for goodness sake.

Yes all clubs have some appeal... i think it’s pretty delusional to suggest that we’re competitive on the same level at the moment.

My hope is that ppl at the club recognise the problem and try to fix it rather than rest on their laurels because we got Carlisle 3 years ago

[The_Dud]

Genuine potential of becoming captain/coach?

[skeptic]

Genuine potential of becoming captain/coach?

Like the principle.

Really need to mix it up at the moment.

One thing ppl can see right through is B#ll$#!t and trying to sell ourselves as a club with a plethora of advantages, a strong standing and being certainties for 2022 flag is delusional.
If I was looking for a new club and they said to me, come to St.Kilda, we have a great club, with great ppl, our list is strong, we’ll be pushing for a premiership soon... I would say these ppl have a poor understanding of where they’re at so no thanks.

If they sold it to me as these are our problems, but these are the opportunities they present, and this is where you fit and here what you’d gain... well it’s a much more attractive package to invest in.

Fancy actually going to a guy like Conglio and saying yeah our club that finished 14th has good ppl, and you could live and train around Moorabbin... laughable to think that’s a game changer

[Joffa Burns]

Genuine potential of becoming captain/coach?

Like the principle.

Really need to mix it up at the moment.

One thing ppl can see right through is B#ll$#!t and trying to sell ourselves as a club with a plethora of advantages, a strong standing and being certainties for 2022 flag is delusional.
If I was looking for a new club and they said to me, come to St.Kilda, we have a great club, with great ppl, our list is strong, we’ll be pushing for a premiership soon... I would say these ppl have a poor understanding of where they’re at so no thanks.

If they sold it to me as these are our problems, but these are the opportunities they present, and this is where you fit and here what you’d gain... well it’s a much more attractive package to invest in.

Fancy actually going to a guy like Conglio and saying yeah our club that finished 14th has good ppl, and you could live and train around Moorabbin... laughable to think that’s a game changer

Don't forget these players are playing against the Saints and will certainly have formed an opinion of the group and their ability & upside.

Playing with mates does come into effect with examples such as Caddy & Prestia or Neale & McCarthy.

Really we've had a fair crack in the last couple of years and good on the club for throwing the farm at Fyfe, Shiel, Kelly et al but we've landed nothing since Carslile that would interest any other club.

Could even land average players such as Lycett with big bucks.

To suggest we offer anything the bigs clubs can't other than $ is ridiculous.

Hannebery - at his peak would interest any club but given his recent injury history over 17, 18 & 19 and big contract made him attractive only to a desperate suitor.

Kent - fringe player from a dud club in Melbourne with little to no upside

Brown - handy for Saints but surplus to Collingwood requirement

[ss1986]

We need to sell something bigger - the opportunity to be an immortal if the Saints ever do win a flag.

Look at our guys from '66. Revered, to this day. Surely better for the soul than being at a club like the big boys where, if you HAVENT won a flag, you are nothing.

We can't win on money alone - so need to go for the heart.

[freely]

We need Billings to recommit. If our own players don't want to be here....

[samoht]

Fancy actually going to a guy like Conglio and saying yeah our club that finished 14th has good ppl, and you could live and train around Moorabbin... laughable to think that’s a game changer

We are on the same Wins and Losses as the Hawks - why would they necessarily be in the box seat to get him?
We also beat the Hawks this year.

We should be trying at least.

[Sanctorum]

I think the Saints are entering a potentially very exciting era so many would or should want to be a part of it IMO.

The club has to keep trying, the Saints will not get anywhere by being negative and giving up on this front. You just keep plugging away.

This has been the forlorn catch cry of a lot of Saints supporters for as long as I can remember Ted and has sustained us with never ending hopes that consistent success is not very far away.

Last Sunday St Kilda featured in one of the biggest showcase games of the year on the international stage with a viewing audience in the countless milliions: the annual fixture in Shanghai against Port Adelaide. Other than the marquee games at the "G", here was a rare chance for St Kilda to strut its stuff, a game where both teams were poised at 5-5 to progress up the ladder. All the AFL Commissioners and a large number of Australia's top corporate heavyweights were there, offering the St Kilda FC a "once in a lifetime" opportunity to attract an A Grade sponsor for the team, someone like Ford, Holden, Hyundai, Mitsubishi, Mazda, Virgin, a brand that is (with no disrespect to the team's current naming rights sponsors) instantly recognisable and synonymous with SUCCESS!

Instead, to my great dismay, the Saints were absolutely smashed by Port, in a display that was quite insipid and verging on humiliation - who in their right mind having never watched a game of AFL before would want to identify with St Kilda?? Yes, the team had a few players succumb to illness pre-match, and sure, the team was without a number of their key players. But this was no excuse for the poor way the team played - there was no semblance of a game plan, no teamwork, and the skill levels way below what is expected at the elite level.

I don't think I have been so disappointed like this for a long time, it was the worst of 2018 on replay.

It is all very well to say that we'll keep plugging away, I say that too. However I have come to the conclusion that we should send a message to the club; "enough is enough", something has to change because whatever the team has been doing in the past 6 games is not acceptable and if allowed to continue in the same manner will turn supporters away from the Saints.

So to get back to the theme of this post, I agree that the current brand of football played by St Kilda will make it very difficult for the club to lure any one of the handful of established star players available to relocate to Moorabbin, irrespective of the obvious charm of living in the bayside suburbs. By far the most influential factor in the mindset of a star player seeking to move to another club is the team's potential to play finals, and sad to say, unless things change dramatically in the 2nd half of the season, the chances of St Kilda playing finals anytime soon is unlikely.

As for changes, I would not be surprised if after last Sunday's effort the Board will set up another major review of the football department, they owe this to their members, and obviously the position of senior coach has be top of the agenda.

[Scollop]

Yes, we should be trying but it's all about the sales pitch. You have to sell a message that is appealing to your target players and at the same time it has to be realistic and believable

ScoMo had an understanding of media and marketing. He had a great sales pitch. We need our own ScMo and I'm positive it ain't Cho

[freely]

If we're using scomo's playbook, we just need to find something negative to say about the other 17 clubs.

[samoht]

If we're using scomo's playbook, we just need to find something negative to say about the other 17 clubs.

Well, we beat both the Hawks and the Demons ... they are the 2 clubs that have supposedly spoken to Coniglio's management.
So we don't have to find something negative to say about them - losing to us says it all.

[skeptic]

If we're using scomo's playbook, we just need to find something negative to say about the other 17 clubs.

Well, we beat both the Hawks and the Demons ... they are the 2 clubs that have supposedly spoken to Coniglio's management.
So we don't have to find something negative to say about them - losing to us says it all.

Does it though?

Melbourne were in horrible form and have stayed average but kept up with us until halftime
And we fell over the line against Hawthorn who lost 3 players during the game.

I wouldn’t be drawing attention to either of those games.

In fact given we’re equal on W/L with Haw/ESS and every other win has been against teams below us with our bigger losses bring to teams in the 8...
Performance right now wouldn’t be my pitch at all.

Trying to say what we’ve done as an indicator of what we’re going to do sounds like one big losing strategy to me

[samoht]

Despite what you're saying, skeptic, and your misgivings/reservations - the Hawks, the Dons and the Demons are all better credentialed teams, with stronger lists, but we've beaten all 3, despite our many injuries.

We should be selling this to the free agents, not downplaying it.

"We are a team that punches above its weight - despite adversity" (that sort of thing).

We need to ooze confidence to attract the FAs - accentuate the positives, and downplay our negatives, not sell ourselves short or turn our positives into negatives (which you seem to be doing).

You wouldn't be any good with the sales pitch.

[skeptic]

Despite what you're saying, skeptic, and your misgivings/reservations - the Hawks, the Dons and the Demons are all better credentialed teams, with stronger lists, but we've beaten all 3, despite our many injuries.

We should be selling this to the free agents, not downplaying it.

"We are a team that punches above its weight - despite adversity" (that sort of thing).

We need to ooze confidence to attract the FAs - accentuate the positives, and downplay our negatives, not sell ourselves short or turn our positives into negatives (which you seem to be doing).

You wouldn't be any good with the sales pitch.

I don’t think anyone would buy that sales pitch...
Punches above it’s weight despite adversity

Which performance indicated that? Adelaide, GW, WCE or Port because the teams you’ve listed are all middle of the road so far this and believe it or not, other teams have had injuries, bad umpiring and adversity too.

Are you arguing that we should be happy because we should have performed worse? Is that the sales pitch. Join St.Kilda because we’re pleasantly surprised to be up as high as 12th.

The pitch that you’re proposing wouldn’t/can’t work when mirrored with our results over two years. Ooze confidence after having last year and likely missing finals this year...
To any rationale person that would indicate that your heads not in the right spot. Confidence without justification is bad judgment.

If we change coaches come seasons end and we pick someone who is super confident that we’ll make top 4 next year without any major changes to the list... I would t view that confidence as a positive thing.


Nope, my pitch would def focus on what we’re doing to change so that ppl see that we
a) understand our situation
b) are making good changes
c) how prospective recruits would fit into that and excel in the environment