The Positives

[CURLY]

First - its round three so its not all over.

Second- We havnt played anywhere near our best and still have been more than competitive. Geelong were and always are close games so although we lost the game would more than likely been viewed the same if we won.

Third- we have proven that we are a good side over a period of time so were we are isnt the norm. If this was after the 2009 season Id say we had one great year and weve fallen back to the usual standard. As its coming off two fantastic seasons we know that the 2009 wasnt a one off. More so after last year with Roos injury.

Fourth- Misson has said we were about five weeks from full fitness at the begginning of the season. Its clear to me were blowing up towards the end of each quarter so what he says makes sence. I believe he may be taking a slower build up to last two seasons.

Fifth- Lennys injury is hard to swallow but this maybe exactlty what the team needs something that forces them to pull there fingers out and lift that 10% extra. Also it opens up the midfield for Goddard I believe to stamp his greatnees on the game

All up Im not panicking or demanding massive team changes as these blokes have got us so very close. Its hard to see us labouring on the ground at times but perhaps the slower approach is the way to go.

[iwantmeseats]

"they got us very close" hmm, see this is the problem in my opinion. Hell, Collingwood WON the thing and they are injecting new players already and will continue to do so. This group, in its current form, is shot. Our bottom 6 or 8 or so are simply shot and in no way up to it. Time to get the youth in there. Its not a resignation of the season or a "rebuild", its simply what we MUST do, or die. That simple.

[plugger66]

"they got us very close" hmm, see this is the problem in my opinion. Hell, Collingwood WON the thing and they are injecting new players already and will continue to do so. This group, in its current form, is shot. Our bottom 6 or 8 or so are simply shot and in no way up to it. Time to get the youth in there. Its not a resignation of the season or a "rebuild", its simply what we MUST do, or die. That simple.

As i said in another thread the pies have injected 3 players from other clubs and we have injected one from another club and a new player. It isnt that much different at all and by this week it may be 3 new players each.

[CURLY]

"they got us very close" hmm, see this is the problem in my opinion. Hell, Collingwood WON the thing and they are injecting new players already and will continue to do so. This group, in its current form, is shot. Our bottom 6 or 8 or so are simply shot and in no way up to it. Time to get the youth in there. Its not a resignation of the season or a "rebuild", its simply what we MUST do, or die. That simple.

Oh yes and who exactly have Collingwood injected. Tarrant because Browns injured Buckley because Maxwells injured and gain a little or a loss depending on whom you ask in Krakour for Davis. Weve actually left two out and have three unavailable.

[iwantmeseats]

"they got us very close" hmm, see this is the problem in my opinion. Hell, Collingwood WON the thing and they are injecting new players already and will continue to do so. This group, in its current form, is shot. Our bottom 6 or 8 or so are simply shot and in no way up to it. Time to get the youth in there. Its not a resignation of the season or a "rebuild", its simply what we MUST do, or die. That simple.

As i said in another thread the pies have injected 3 players from other clubs and we have injected one from another club and a new player. It isnt that much different at all and by this week it may be 3 new players each.

Exapnd the outlook over 2-3 years. Have a look at the pick ups off the rookie list. Their god damn captain was a rookie. We know what has to happen, I cannto understand those trying to justify the continuance of this list as it is. its NOT anywhere remotely good enough.

[iwantmeseats]

"they got us very close" hmm, see this is the problem in my opinion. Hell, Collingwood WON the thing and they are injecting new players already and will continue to do so. This group, in its current form, is shot. Our bottom 6 or 8 or so are simply shot and in no way up to it. Time to get the youth in there. Its not a resignation of the season or a "rebuild", its simply what we MUST do, or die. That simple.

Oh yes and who exactly have Collingwood injected. Tarrant because Browns injured Buckley because Maxwells injured and gain a little or a loss depending on whom you ask in Krakour for Davis. Weve actually left two out and have three unavailable.

riighht, so they didnt blood any new guys this very weekend just gone did they? Do some research, it aint just a suburb north of melbourne. ffs.

[iwantmeseats]

Curly,

Injusries are irrelevant in this argument. We got em to, but we still play the same old players, who are not up to it.

[repta]

We are looking old and slow. The player just seem to be going through the motions, but there is definately a lack of structure around the forward line.
Flooding and stagnated ball movement will be found out this year. Time to refresh, inject some youth and get some better free wheeling ball movement.

[plugger66]

"they got us very close" hmm, see this is the problem in my opinion. Hell, Collingwood WON the thing and they are injecting new players already and will continue to do so. This group, in its current form, is shot. Our bottom 6 or 8 or so are simply shot and in no way up to it. Time to get the youth in there. Its not a resignation of the season or a "rebuild", its simply what we MUST do, or die. That simple.

As i said in another thread the pies have injected 3 players from other clubs and we have injected one from another club and a new player. It isnt that much different at all and by this week it may be 3 new players each.

Exapnd the outlook over 2-3 years. Have a look at the pick ups off the rookie list. Their god damn captain was a rookie. We know what has to happen, I cannto understand those trying to justify the continuance of this list as it is. its NOT anywhere remotely good enough.

So 4 games ago a draw in a GF with pretty much the same list is remotely good enough. Either you dont rate the pies or we had huge luck in the GF.

Anyway as I have said many times before RL made a decision, maybe 3 years ago, that we had a time fame 4-5 years to win a GF so we recruited for that by bringing in many players from other clubs and only giving kids the odd chance. It has nearly paid off but not quite and IMO it may nearly be shut because of the injury to Lenny

However surely we can wait 2-3 more games to see if this current list can come good because they did get us into the last 2 GF's. In my opinion there is no rush to bring in young kids because once we do the window is 100% shut and the reason is simple. Unless any of the young kids can have an immediate impact, and from their form at Sandy that doesnt look likely, they aint going to be at their best for 3-4 years and by then most of our A graders will have retired or will be past their best.

So IMO it isnt as simple as just bring in new players. It is a huge decision because once they do we are looking at the bottom 8 for 5-7 years.

[Quixote]

^^^ Bit too much doom and gloom for mine.

Players that can come in and have an immediate impact (we can nearly count Armo here due to his lack of being in the team but I won't list him):

Steven
Ledger
Lynch
Stanley
...maybe a couple more too...

for mine.


I mean, who at this time last year could have predicted that Jarryd fricken Blair and Co would be Premiership players??


It is a long, long, long season.

[CURLY]

"they got us very close" hmm, see this is the problem in my opinion. Hell, Collingwood WON the thing and they are injecting new players already and will continue to do so. This group, in its current form, is shot. Our bottom 6 or 8 or so are simply shot and in no way up to it. Time to get the youth in there. Its not a resignation of the season or a "rebuild", its simply what we MUST do, or die. That simple.

Oh yes and who exactly have Collingwood injected. Tarrant because Browns injured Buckley because Maxwells injured and gain a little or a loss depending on whom you ask in Krakour for Davis. Weve actually left two out and have three unavailable.

riighht, so they didnt blood any new guys this very weekend just gone did they? Do some research, it aint just a suburb north of melbourne. ffs.

No they didnt perhaps you should do your research. In fact weve had more more players debut in the last year than them Fact.

[plugger66]

^^^ Bit too much doom and gloom for mine.

Players that can come in and have an immediate impact (we can nearly count Armo here due to his lack of being in the team but I won't list him):

Steven
Ledger
Lynch
Stanley
...maybe a couple more too...

for mine.


I mean, who at this time last year could have predicted that Jarryd fricken Blair and Co would be Premiership players??


It is a long, long, long season.

It isnt doom and gloom IMO. It is fact. The only player that you have mentioned that could have an impact, and not just do a role, is Steven. Stanly is completely out of form, Ledger hasnt even played a proper game and after watching GC we realise those practice games are just rubbish and Lynch may be OK and could get a run this week but isnt going to really have an impact as such. Anyway I was more talkiing about the people who want 5-6 changes this week. If we do that then we are shutting the window.

Anyway I am not the doom and gloom person. I am actually saying lets at least give most of these guys a couple more games afterall they did get us to a GF 3 games ago.

[St. Luke]

It's not entirely bewildering as to why we’re a bit flat. Two Grand Final losses in consecutive years would be enough to tear the wind out of anyone’s sails. I’m sure they’ll have a heart to heart and buckle down this week to prove a point against Essendon. You’ll find from there on in we’ll be getting back on track…well, that’s what I’m hoping at least. I’m still gutted about Lenny though

[satchmo]

Post subject: The Positives

Thank god.

I thought this thread was about drug testing.

[groupie1]

"they got us very close" hmm, see this is the problem in my opinion. Hell, Collingwood WON the thing and they are injecting new players already and will continue to do so. This group, in its current form, is shot. Our bottom 6 or 8 or so are simply shot and in no way up to it. Time to get the youth in there. Its not a resignation of the season or a "rebuild", its simply what we MUST do, or die. That simple.

Here, here

[groupie1]

"they got us very close" hmm, see this is the problem in my opinion. Hell, Collingwood WON the thing and they are injecting new players already and will continue to do so. This group, in its current form, is shot. Our bottom 6 or 8 or so are simply shot and in no way up to it. Time to get the youth in there. Its not a resignation of the season or a "rebuild", its simply what we MUST do, or die. That simple.

As i said in another thread the pies have injected 3 players from other clubs and we have injected one from another club and a new player. It isnt that much different at all and by this week it may be 3 new players each.

Exapnd the outlook over 2-3 years. Have a look at the pick ups off the rookie list. Their god damn captain was a rookie. We know what has to happen, I cannto understand those trying to justify the continuance of this list as it is. its NOT anywhere remotely good enough.

So 4 games ago a draw in a GF with pretty much the same list is remotely good enough. Either you dont rate the pies or we had huge luck in the GF.

Anyway as I have said many times before RL made a decision, maybe 3 years ago, that we had a time fame 4-5 years to win a GF so we recruited for that by bringing in many players from other clubs and only giving kids the odd chance. It has nearly paid off but not quite and IMO it may nearly be shut because of the injury to Lenny

However surely we can wait 2-3 more games to see if this current list can come good because they did get us into the last 2 GF's. In my opinion there is no rush to bring in young kids because once we do the window is 100% shut and the reason is simple. Unless any of the young kids can have an immediate impact, and from their form at Sandy that doesnt look likely, they aint going to be at their best for 3-4 years and by then most of our A graders will have retired or will be past their best.

So IMO it isnt as simple as just bring in new players. It is a huge decision because once they do we are looking at the bottom 8 for 5-7 years.

There is absolutely no logic in this.
Kids will take 3-4 years to be at their best by which time the greats are past it, so we'll be look at bottom 8 for 5-7 years. I can't be bothered poking the obvious holes in you mathematics. I'll move onto the logic.

First of all, many of these kids (Steven, Armitage, Geary, McEvoy, Lynch) have been doing RL's infamous 4-year apprenticeship for the purpose of being ready when called in. As you see, three of them are or have been in already.
Second, the Ledgers and Cripps's are not rank amateurs, but established footballers with some experience.
Third, you have entirely discounted the possibility that, just for example, Stanley, Steven, Ledger, and Lynch will perform better than Dempster, Peake, Gamble, Blake. (these names are only examples). It is possible.
Forth, NO PLAYER comes into a senior team at their best. We understand that. Players tend to come in before they're at their best, and retire after they're at their best. So its a false choice to say if they can't come in at their best they can't come in. We'd never get new players in, following your logic! The actual questions are twofold: a/ are they good enough, b are they an improvement on a fading bottom 6?
And fifth, it isn't about when is the premiership window open or shut, christs sake. It was shut in 2008 and 2009 but we finished 4 and 2nd.

The list comes first. Look at the list, who are the best 22, pick 'em. That gives us our best shot, however good that shot is. Pretty simple.

[groupie1]

"they got us very close" hmm, see this is the problem in my opinion. Hell, Collingwood WON the thing and they are injecting new players already and will continue to do so. This group, in its current form, is shot. Our bottom 6 or 8 or so are simply shot and in no way up to it. Time to get the youth in there. Its not a resignation of the season or a "rebuild", its simply what we MUST do, or die. That simple.

As i said in another thread the pies have injected 3 players from other clubs and we have injected one from another club and a new player. It isnt that much different at all and by this week it may be 3 new players each.

Exapnd the outlook over 2-3 years. Have a look at the pick ups off the rookie list. Their god damn captain was a rookie. We know what has to happen, I cannto understand those trying to justify the continuance of this list as it is. its NOT anywhere remotely good enough.

So 4 games ago a draw in a GF with pretty much the same list is remotely good enough. Either you dont rate the pies or we had huge luck in the GF.

Anyway as I have said many times before RL made a decision, maybe 3 years ago, that we had a time fame 4-5 years to win a GF so we recruited for that by bringing in many players from other clubs and only giving kids the odd chance. It has nearly paid off but not quite and IMO it may nearly be shut because of the injury to Lenny

However surely we can wait 2-3 more games to see if this current list can come good because they did get us into the last 2 GF's. In my opinion there is no rush to bring in young kids because once we do the window is 100% shut and the reason is simple. Unless any of the young kids can have an immediate impact, and from their form at Sandy that doesnt look likely, they aint going to be at their best for 3-4 years and by then most of our A graders will have retired or will be past their best.

So IMO it isnt as simple as just bring in new players. It is a huge decision because once they do we are looking at the bottom 8 for 5-7 years.

There is absolutely no logic in this.
Kids will take 3-4 years to be at their best by which time the greats are past it, so we'll be look at bottom 8 for 5-7 years. I can't be bothered poking the obvious holes in you mathematics. I'll move onto the logic.

First of all, many of these kids (Steven, Armitage, Geary, McEvoy, Lynch) have been doing RL's infamous 4-year apprenticeship for the purpose of being ready when called in. As you see, three of them are or have been in already.
Second, the Ledgers and Cripps's are not rank amateurs, but established footballers with some experience.
Third, you have entirely discounted the possibility that, just for example, Stanley, Steven, Ledger, and Lynch will perform better than Dempster, Peake, Gamble, Blake. (these names are only examples). It is possible.
Forth, NO PLAYER comes into a senior team at their best. We understand that. Players tend to come in before they're at their best, and retire after they're at their best. So its a false choice to say if they can't come in at their best they can't come in. We'd never get new players in, following your logic! The actual questions are twofold: a/ are they good enough, b are they an improvement on a fading bottom 6?
And fifth, it isn't about when is the premiership window open or shut, christs sake. It was shut in 2008 and 2009 but we finished 4 and 2nd.

The list comes first. Look at the list, who are the best 22, pick 'em. That gives us our best shot, however good that shot is. Pretty simple.

[clarky449]

Maybe out best wont be any where good enough this year.

[groupie1]

Maybe out best wont be any where good enough this year.

Maybe you're right, dude. But you play your best, roll the dice, back your recruitment and see how the cookie crumbles. Nothing much else we can do.

[groupie1]

I take from this awful weekend a massive positive.

Lenny's injury gives us an excuse to take a year off. The guys look jaded and tired. Give 'em a mental rest from the chase. Get games into the kids. understand we may come second or last, doesn't matter, we're setting up for 2012 when the 'window' reopens with Hayes' return.
Maybe a lesson will be learned in all this. The Pies beat us b/c they were a better quality side. We need talent in the 22. BLokes who can kick the f****** football at a target. Maybe the kids come in and can use the ball and it clicks in RL's head - ball use is key!
And it can only go forward for 2012.

[matrix]

F*** that
you reckon the other 20 to 30 odd players would be keen on that?
i know i wouldnt be

[groupie1]

F*** that
you reckon the other 20 to 30 odd players would be keen on that?
i know i wouldnt be

'Blokes, you know and I know we won't win the flag this year. You know and I know the Pies are too strong, Hayes is too big of a loss, and the likes of Peake and MacQualter aren't good enough. So this year, we're gonna tinker with a few different game plans, we're gonna mix it up a bit, take a look at everyone so we know where we sit, nobody plays through injury, and don't worry so much about winning and losing. Let's get back to enjoying our footy and setting ourselves up for a massive 2012. Whatta ya reckon?'

[groupie1]

Dude, its the same sort of thing as 2008:

'Joey. I reckon you're OK, but you're not great. But I think you could be great. But to become great you have to work on your defensive skills. So this year, all year, you're gonna tag. And you're gonna hate it, it's gonna suck and not be much fun. But the year after, I swear, you'll be a whole new player for us and might even be at all-Australian standard. Whatta ya reckon?'

[SainterK]

Steven, Stanley and Cahill are a little behind everyone else, this is entirely their own doing.

Ledger did a hamstring.

Cripps must be trying to get his illness in check.

Archer has played.

Winmar has been close.

Armo whilst not a kid, has pushed himself into the best 21.

[iwantmeseats]

Plugger,

You seem to be hanging on this notion that this list got us to 2 GF's so stick with it.

The crux of this is, other teams have improved, we most certainly have not no matter which way you spin it.