At least Gardi won his last game

[jonesy]

Mumford mauled us a fortnight ago. He mauled Geelong last week. Had a shocker yesterday and was beaten comprehensively by Leunberger.

I dunno...I am not sure Bigmac can compete with him atm,he looks spent. Having said that not certain Gardi can stand up for four quarters either. Agree can't have both

Does Baker come in to take on Rohan? He is dangerous atm

[perfectionist]

Ross mentioned that it was Gardi's 200th AFL game
on the saints list it says 181

does anyone know if there would be another 19 counted from somewhere?

Pre season games?

[bobmurray]

[By the way I think that was the only time I typed that so the answer is one.

wrong answer

[ando051]

I thought Gardi was ok but not great. Not forgetting it was his first game in the seniors for 12 month, the pace of the game is a bit different than Sandy. I think subbing him off is the way to go and would work again next week. I would be bring in Armo for Gram and staying taller for Sydney.

[To the top]

So please explain to me how Ray coming on for Gardiner changed our forward structure?

From where I was sitting I actually thought that playing with more than 4 forwards, reducing to one because we were zoning back causing Carlton to switch continually, using their loose players, was the difference.

Instead of Riewoldt and Koschitzke having no support, we actually gave support thru Milne (3 goals and he should never venture more than 40 metres from goal - gets cut up for pace in the mid-field), Schnieder (2 goals but ditto with Milne in the mid-field except his left foot can be very dangerous and find him space Milne can not find) and Steven (2 goals and can and did contribute to the mid-field - with a bit of luck he could have had 4).

Apart from these 3, Dal Santo, Goddard, Montagna and Gilbert got forward to kick goals - plus Koschitzke got 2 whilst playing forward, assisted Schnieder who had done earlier work and crashed a few contests and Dawson went forward leaving Blake on 17 (but too small without support).

In terms of chase pressure and running to space as an option, Peake did a tremendous job and, indeed, was our only runner because the rest of our team jogs.

If you think Ray coming on improved our structure and our forward line, it did not.

In fact, given Riewoldt being beaten as he was and having minimal impact, substituting Gardiner robbed our forward structure because it forced Koschitzke to ruck periodically - and his value forward was amply on view hence we were deficient forward when he was called upon to ruck.

Carlton losing their second ruckman before half time allowed us to play the dice with our own substitution.

[plugger66]

So please explain to me how Ray coming on for Gardiner changed our forward structure?

From where I was sitting I actually thought that playing with more than 4 forwards, reducing to one because we were zoning back causing Carlton to switch continually, using their loose players, was the difference.

Instead of Riewoldt and Koschitzke having no support, we actually gave support thru Milne (3 goals and he should never venture more than 40 metres from goal - gets cut up for pace in the mid-field), Schnieder (2 goals but ditto with Milne in the mid-field except his left foot can be very dangerous and find him space Milne can not find) and Steven (2 goals and can and did contribute to the mid-field - with a bit of luck he could have had 4).

Apart from these 3, Dal Santo, Goddard, Montagna and Gilbert got forward to kick goals - plus Koschitzke got 2 whilst playing forward, assisted Schnieder who had done earlier work and crashed a few contests and Dawson went forward leaving Blake on 17 (but too small without support).

In terms of chase pressure and running to space as an option, Peake did a tremendous job and, indeed, was our only runner because the rest of our team jogs.

If you think Ray coming on improved our structure and our forward line, it did not.

In fact, given Riewoldt being beaten as he was and having minimal impact, substituting Gardiner robbed our forward structure because it forced Koschitzke to ruck periodically - and his value forward was amply on view hence we were deficient forward when he was called upon to ruck.

Carlton losing their second ruckman before half time allowed us to play the dice with our own substitution.

Did you actually watch the game? When MG was playing they had to have 3 talls in the forward line more often than they would want as you cant play off the bench all the time. When they went to 2 talls it allowed our fowards to at least stop Carlton getting the ball in the backline and building from there. We have defensive pressure all of a sudden.

Can you explain why in the first half Carlton had so many extra possession and uncontested marks in the forward line and then in the second half we actually got more and held their run from the backline. Could be coincidence or could be we had only 2 lumberers forward instead of 3. It also allowed Kosi to go into the second ruck role and get at least a little into the game. Kosi didnt get a kick in the first half so that wasnt robbing our forward line of anything by rucking.

And you cant let you bad calls of Milney go. Always knocking him. Now you dont want him to go further than 40 metres from goal but then knock the lack of chase. Fair dinkum.

[3rd generation saint]

Don't McEvoy didn't have Kosi as a back up in Sydney, and despite two late withdrawals and illness, we still managed to lead for over 3 Quarters, in fact should have been 4 goals up at half time.
I'm sure RL will have a plan for Mumford.

[SaintTom]

I agree that there isn't room for both Mac and Gards in the team next week. But unfortunately, I think Mac has to be the one who misses. One of the main reasons we lost last time against Sydney is because of Mumfords phenomenal tap ruck work, he massacred Mac. This is no knock on Mac's game at the moment, would still put him in the top 5 players for us this year, but it's horses for courses. We need a big beastly ruck man who can hold his own in the actual ruck department. Mac is fine against most ruckmen, but against someone like Mumford it's no shame to the kid to say that just this week, we need the pure tap work of Gardiner. Bring back Mac the following week.

Problem is, we will really struggle to beat Sydney with Mac in the ruck against Mumford.

[Junction Oval]

I feel a selection dilemna coming on.

[bigcarl]

I agree that there isn't room for both Mac and Gards in the team next week. But unfortunately, I think Mac has to be the one who misses. One of the main reasons we lost last time against Sydney is because of Mumfords phenomenal tap ruck work, he massacred Mac. This is no knock on Mac's game at the moment, would still put him in the top 5 players for us this year, but it's horses for courses. We need a big beastly ruck man who can hold his own in the actual ruck department. Mac is fine against most ruckmen, but against someone like Mumford it's no shame to the kid to say that just this week, we need the pure tap work of Gardiner. Bring back Mac the following week.

Problem is, we will really struggle to beat Sydney with Mac in the ruck against Mumford.

Kosi didn't play that week because of illness iirc, so mac had to do it himself all day.

[Old Mate]

Going by this article Gardiner will play - with quotes from Lyon

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx

[Moods]

So please explain to me how Ray coming on for Gardiner changed our forward structure?

From where I was sitting I actually thought that playing with more than 4 forwards, reducing to one because we were zoning back causing Carlton to switch continually, using their loose players, was the difference.

Instead of Riewoldt and Koschitzke having no support, we actually gave support thru Milne (3 goals and he should never venture more than 40 metres from goal - gets cut up for pace in the mid-field), Schnieder (2 goals but ditto with Milne in the mid-field except his left foot can be very dangerous and find him space Milne can not find) and Steven (2 goals and can and did contribute to the mid-field - with a bit of luck he could have had 4).

Apart from these 3, Dal Santo, Goddard, Montagna and Gilbert got forward to kick goals - plus Koschitzke got 2 whilst playing forward, assisted Schnieder who had done earlier work and crashed a few contests and Dawson went forward leaving Blake on 17 (but too small without support).

In terms of chase pressure and running to space as an option, Peake did a tremendous job and, indeed, was our only runner because the rest of our team jogs.

If you think Ray coming on improved our structure and our forward line, it did not.

In fact, given Riewoldt being beaten as he was and having minimal impact, substituting Gardiner robbed our forward structure because it forced Koschitzke to ruck periodically - and his value forward was amply on view hence we were deficient forward when he was called upon to ruck.

Carlton losing their second ruckman before half time allowed us to play the dice with our own substitution.

Did you actually watch the game? When MG was playing they had to have 3 talls in the forward line more often than they would want as you cant play off the bench all the time. When they went to 2 talls it allowed our fowards to at least stop Carlton getting the ball in the backline and building from there. We have defensive pressure all of a sudden.

Can you explain why in the first half Carlton had so many extra possession and uncontested marks in the forward line and then in the second half we actually got more and held their run from the backline. Could be coincidence or could be we had only 2 lumberers forward instead of 3. It also allowed Kosi to go into the second ruck role and get at least a little into the game. Kosi didnt get a kick in the first half so that wasnt robbing our forward line of anything by rucking.

And you cant let you bad calls of Milney go. Always knocking him. Now you dont want him to go further than 40 metres from goal but then knock the lack of chase. Fair dinkum.

Plugger is right (sadly)

[matrix]

really??

i don reckon
gards and big boy will both play next week imo

[Old Mate]

really??

i don reckon
gards and big boy will both play next week imo

That's obvious you would think.

[matrix]

i dunno
plugger seems to think the sky will fall over if they both get a gig.
seeing as it didnt work last night

[stevie]

Still trying to work out how Mumford is suddenly the big gun ruckman.

He has no more jump than Ben, lumbers a fair bit. I think his tank seems to gloss up his standing more.

A bit like jolly being put in a good team - he was a hack in his final Shytney years.

Run the mumbo jumbo into the f****** ground and that'll show him for the GOP that he is

[borderbarry]

OUT.... Gardi. Ray
In....... Armo. Walsh.

[Moods]

OUT.... Gardi. Ray
In....... Armo. Walsh.

What? Why would you drop Ray?

[gringo]

I think Gardi will start on the ground, Ben will be a sub in case Gardi gets injured. Armo will take someones midfield spot, probably Gears even though he played quite well last night.

[Thinline]

I reckon you've gotta get rid of your anti-gardi agenda plugger...

I want the selection commitee to select a side based on beating the Swans, if that includes big Mick or not, we'll see.

I can live with it if he is in or out, but for some reason, you appear to dislike him in the side.

Are you Ben's manager?

Well it is the 21 year old who got us here or the 30 year old with one game. Maybe you need to take the blinkers off because both cant play. It actually hinders our forward with both in the side.

We can't head into a finals campaign with one ruckman fit. We needed to know Gardi can back up. Would be amazed if MG played again next week.

[maverick]

Knew this would come up
Maybe the bombing if the ball from half back may have contributed to the first half

[Moods]

I think Gardi will start on the ground, Ben will be a sub in case Gardi gets injured. Armo will take someones midfield spot, probably Gears even though he played quite well last night.

Are you serious? Play a big lumbering ruckman as the sub? That will give us stacks of run late in the game......

If Gardi breaks down, which if there is a doubt about that then don't pick him to start off with, then we still have Blake and Kosi. You don't play a 2nd lumbering ruckman in case the 1st one picked breaks down.

Surely Ben will get the nod though. Dropped a couple of sitters last night and needs to get back to those sure hands. Gardi was ok when on the ground, but Ben has proven himself this year.