So now we have a mountain of cap space

[stinger]

Front ending contracts is the thing to do now. Bring forward any salary that is possible to do so. Will mean several years with salary cap freedom and opportunities to recruit. Once you are 'ahead' due to front ending, that can cycle through indefinitely if done wisely.

Great point SuperD... you seem to be making a habit of this.

I've also been thinking about this sorta thing, though I hadn't gotten as far as your rolling cycle concept. (Maybe that shows that great minds and less than great minds can still think alike?)

There's a possible pitfall though?

What if a bloke is on a very heavily front loaded say 3 year deal, with an 'in AFL terms' pittance in the final year. Like say Luke Ballsup who is reported on pretty much basic match payments for his final year. If said player once again decided he wanted to take his bat and ball and bail on yet another club, any club wanting to try and bounce Ball away would not have to match some huge salary/try to fit it into their salary cap - at least for when they take over that last year of his contract.

Whereas if a contract is back ended, should player Ball bail, any potential club has to fit a much larger payment into their salary cap (irrelevant though if said club is the Swines ), so by bailing again in that senario, Ball would potentially be risking ballsing up more money also? Or maybe not...?

What do the more knowledgeable think...?

say again.....???

[Heidelberg_Saint]

Can anyone explain whether Kossie and Clint Jones have a contract in place for 2013?

[plugger66]

Can anyone explain whether Kossie and Clint Jones have a contract in place for 2013?

Yes they do.

[Cairnsman]

Can anyone explain whether Kossie and Clint Jones have a contract in place for 2013?

Yes they do.

Clint might struggle to get a game in 2013 and from what I've heard he's on very shaky ground for obvious reasons.

[SaintPav]

Can anyone explain whether Kossie and Clint Jones have a contract in place for 2013?

Yes they do.

Clint might struggle to get a game in 2013 and from what I've heard he's on very shaky ground for obvious reasons.

Was that the same 'sauce' that told you BJ was going to Richmond?

[saintly]

Can anyone explain whether Kossie and Clint Jones have a contract in place for 2013?

Yes they do.

Clint might struggle to get a game in 2013 and from what I've heard he's on very shaky ground for obvious reasons.

what obvious reasons?

[Dave McNamara]

There's a possible pitfall though?

What if a bloke is on a very heavily front loaded say 3 year deal, with an 'in AFL terms' pittance in the final year. Like say Luke Ballsup who is reported on pretty much basic match payments for his final year. If said player once again decided he wanted to take his bat and ball and bail on yet another club, any club wanting to try and bounce Ball away would not have to match some huge salary/try to fit it into their salary cap - at least for when they take over that last year of his contract.

Whereas if a contract is back ended, should player Ball bail, any potential club has to fit a much larger payment into their salary cap (irrelevant though if said club is the Swines ), so by bailing again in that senario, Ball would potentially be risking ballsing up more money also? Or maybe not...?

What do the more knowledgeable think...?

say again.....???

Sting, your question is making the huge assumption that I understand what I wrote (above).

Uhmmmm, how about something like this then...

Lucas Ball goes to Collingwood on a three year $1mil deal.
That's a (rounded off) average of $330K per season (for each of seasons 2011,2012,2013) - Method A.
But instead the contract is heavily front loaded - Method F... something like...
2011 - $500K , 2012 - $400K, 2013 - $100K (pretty much basic match payments for a new draftee).

So, in season 2013,
if staying with Method A, Collingwood pay Lucas $330K,
if adopting payment Method F, Collingwood pay Lucas only $100K,
and hence have an extra $230K space in their salary cap ($330K/Method F - $100K/Method A).
So by frontloading, Collingwood have created salary cap space to allow them to recruit a 'bonus' $230K player, or sweeten any contract by that extra $230K.

This strategy could be adopted in cases like St Kilda this year. BJ's leaving and Roo's salary halving (an example of us frontloading his last contract) means we have heaps of space in the salary cap.
But two problems...
1/(Maybe) we aren't premiership contenders for 2013.
2/ For various reasons we didn't recruit anyone who required us to 'spend up'.
Solution...
Use our new found salary cap for season 2013 to sure up the contracts of existing players we want to keep by renegotiating their contracts to extend them and increase their pay,
and frontload these new contracts ala Lucas Ball so that in a season or two we can wade right into that FAll draft.
As each frontloaded player contract ends, repeat the above process...

Now here's the potential problem that I am wondering about...

2012, Lucas Ball finds out that coach FIGJAM will not be just the one-season wonder that Lucas had predicted, and this is coupled with Lucas' coaching pin-up boy moving to Carlton...
Teetotalling Lucas wants to bail out and be reunited with Micky Milkshake.
Nobody else wants Lucas, so Collingwood knows he could walk to the draft, so they have to cut some sort of deal with Carlton.

Here's the kicker...

• Carlton, although almost maxed out in their cap, only have to find $100K to take over Lucas' 2013 season contract.
  (If Collingwood hadn't frontloaded, Carlton would have had to find space of $330K, if Collingwood had backloaded, then to pinch Lucas, Carlton would have had to fit an extra $500K into their cap.)

So that's the potential risk I can see with frontloading contracts... could it in certain circumstances make things easier for another club to poach your player...?



All names/identitities/whatever are used purely for demonstrative purposes, and any coincidence with reality... is purely a coincidence... except where player treachery is involved.

[saintspremiers]

I have a sneaky feeling the club will do a BIG pelican trade next year.............GODDARD Returns on 1.7m.........

You heard it here first....

Sauce?

[Scoop]

Lucas Ball goes to Collingwood on a three year $1mil deal.
That's a (rounded off) average of $330K per season (for each of seasons 2010,2011,2012) - Method A.
But instead the contract is heavily front loaded - Method F... something like...
2011 - $500K , 2012 - $400K, 2013 - $100K (pretty much basic match payments for a new draftee).

So, in season 2013,
if staying with Method A, Collingwood pay Lucas $330K,
if adopting payment Method F, Collingwood pay Lucas only $100K,

Now here's the potential problem that I am wondering about...

2012, Lucas Ball finds out that coach FIGJAM will not be just the one-season wonder that Lucas had predicted, and this is coupled with Lucas' coaching pin-up boy moving to Carlton...
Teetotalling Lucas wants to bail out and be reunited with Micky Milkshake.
Nobody else wants Lucas, so Collingwood knows he could walk to the draft, so they have to cut some sort of deal with Carlton.

Here's the kicker...

• Carlton, although almost maxed out in their cap, only have to find $100K to take over Lucas' 2013 season contract.
  (If Collingwood hadn't frontloaded, Carlton would have had to find space of $330K, if Collingwood had backloaded, then to pinch Lucas, Carlton would have had to fit an extra $500K into their cap.)

So that's the potential risk I can see with frontloading contracts... could it in certain circumstances make things easier for another club to poach your player...?

The only issue I have with your scenario, Dave, is that if Lucas is contracted in 2013, he cannot just walk into the draft....as he is contracted!

I think you need to redo your years above (that I have highlighted in red)......I am confused.

[Dave McNamara]

The only issue I have with your scenario, Dave, is that if Lucas is contracted in 2013, he cannot just walk into the draft....as he is contracted!

I think you need to redo your years above (that I have highlighted in red)......I am confused.

Well spotted Scoop. Yes, should read 2011,2012, 2013... I've corrected the original post.

The whole 'just walk into the draft' thing is pretty much what I'm questioning... hardly succinctly, I know...

A contracted player can pressure a club to trade him elsewhere, but if that player is unsuccessful with that, can he breach his contract and take his chances in the draft..., or would he have to stand out for the remainder his contract?

If it's the latter, then that would seem to remove most of the potential risk of frontloading...?

Or maybe there's still other potential pitfalls that I'm not foreseeing??? I hope not, coz we are now in a position to frontload a heap of contracts, and so set the cycle (described above) in motion.

[Dis Believer]

Dave a player cannot walk out on his contract - he would have to sit out a year, he would be in breach of contract etc...
That is why we had no position on the Brown deal.

The pendulum swings when his contract expires. The only risk to the player if he walks on no contract is that some team other than his desired destination picks him up in the draft. That's why Ball had to have a front loaded contract, so thatin his first year no other team would be able to fit him into their salary cap.
That's why all our cap space will come in handy if we still want to chase Brown at the end of 2013 - we pay overs this year to some of the deserving, in the knowledge that we pay then less next year and have space to get Brown in that WCE cannot match. We then force their hand as he is uncontracted and say we will give you pick X for him or he goes to the draft and you get nothing......

[Dave McNamara]

Dave a player cannot walk out on his contract - he would have to sit out a year, he would be in breach of contract etc...
That is why we had no position on the Brown deal.

The pendulum swings when his contract expires. The only risk to the player if he walks on no contract is that some team other than his desired destination picks him up in the draft. That's why Ball had to have a front loaded contract, so that in his first year no other team would be able to fit him into their salary cap.
That's why all our cap space will come in handy if we still want to chase Brown at the end of 2013 - we pay overs this year to some of the deserving, in the knowledge that we pay then less next year and have space to get Brown in that WCE cannot match. We then force their hand as he is uncontracted and say we will give you pick X for him or he goes to the draft and you get nothing......

Fears allayed. Thanks TB.

And yep, that's another advantage of the frontloaded contract... and we are nicely positioned on that front... will be set up for the Pelican to scoop up some big fish over the next few seasons.

So, game plan is...
Free up salary cap space (check),
Even-out the player salaries to strengthen the bottom of the list and even-out the overall list (well underway),
Frontload contracts to create a cycle of ongoing salary cap space (well underway),
Pelican swoops and scoops at the trade table (watch this space bay-beeeeeee!)

[Dr Spaceman]

Go watch the Melbourne Cup Dave