Concerned about our lack of direction off-field

[skeptic]

I kind of thought we were heading in the right direction in the GT and Butters era... at least for a while

GT was all about:
- Developing strong culture
- Getting good kids into the team
- Trading for players possibly entering their prime

Butters was about off-field stability and financial control

He did this by
- Reducing debt and cutting expenses
- Selling games to Tasmania
- Sponsorship
- Club identity, focusing on redeveloping Moorabbin
- Aligning with Casey

Whilst not necessarily agreeing with all these decisions, it's clear that we were at least united working in a clear direction direction

Now obviously that all went to poop for a variety of reasons and a fairly major breakdown across multiple levels... not wanting to dredge that back up

My concerns at the moment since then
- We left Tassie and have employed a similar deal in New Zealand... seems a worse off scenario
- Didn't ultimately embrace Casey and left them and bailed out of Moorabbin too...
- I don't mind the allegiance with Sandy or the move to Seaford however rumblings are now out there we will ditch Sandy for a standalone and are splitting our time between Moorabbin and Seaford... embrace one or the other and put everything into it

We've had issues with our football department... training, coaching, sports science, allegiance, recruitment, player retention, contracts etc being reliant too much on one individual be it GT, RL or the Pelch... when they leave we always seem to have to build from the ground up again.
Are we doing that again?

Thoughts?

[WellardSaint]

Different personalities have different ways of thinking. They even have differing views on the extent of a problem, so therefore the method of solving an issue is different.
And like any business, there will be differing views on goals and KPIs.
Essentially, every club wants stability, good membership, on-field success; just how to get those, is approached differently.
I think SW is the wrong man for the on-field success, and the board must have used the wrong criteria to judge his potential.
I don't think the board knew what we were lacking. I'm hoping I am wrong.
GT & Butterss were, in my opinion, responsible for a wonderful Golden Age, but for whatever reasons, things turned sour, they went from best mates to sworn enemies.
Lost sight of why they were there.
Could have built a magical Camelot. It was there, but something dark took hold and destroyed what had been so painstakingly built.
I don't believe we shall see Camelot again, in my lifetime.
There is a new magic afoot, a new awareness, in the AFL, and we are doomed to despair in nostalgic musings of what might have been.

[tony74]

Ian Mc.Leod will be the saviour. And SW is the right man.

[tweedaletomanning]

In my opinion, the minute Nettlefold walked in the door,
The club has gone backwards.

Coincidence or incompetence?

[Darth Vader]

Ian Mc.Leod will be the saviour. And SW is the right man.

.

Tony74 - interesting comment. I also hear that Terry Dillon (COO reporting to Nettlefold) is very good.

[saintspremiers]

Ian Mc.Leod will be the saviour. And SW is the right man.

Fuel vouchers with Saints memberships?!

Maybe McLeod should be our Prez not noname.

[plugger66]

Ian Mc.Leod will be the saviour. And SW is the right man.

Based on what. No nothing of Mcleod and surely the jury is out on SW. Yes he is playing young guys but obviously not much choice. he could be a great coach or maybe he wont. Nothing to say either way yet except bias because he is coaching us now. Wait until he is eventually sacked which hopefully wont happen for many years.

[St Chris]

I kind of thought we were heading in the right direction in the GT and Butters era... at least for a while

GT was all about:
- Developing strong culture
- Getting good kids into the team
- Trading for players possibly entering their prime

Butters was about off-field stability and financial control

He did this by
- Reducing debt and cutting expenses
- Selling games to Tasmania
- Sponsorship
- Club identity, focusing on redeveloping Moorabbin
- Aligning with Casey

Interesting post. Should get a good (mature) discussion going.

I think a lot of the area GT focused on are still relevant, and will always be relevant to any footy club.

We're getting the best kids we can, which is all we really all we did in the GT era also, it's just that we managed a handful of once in a generation types, and a couple of out and out legends, which always helps. Will any of the kids we have now get to this bracket, who knows? And i'm sure every club looks to trade for players entering their prime. We've been pretty stuck with the salary cap until the last 6 months, so expect us to pick up in the trade market over the next few seasons.

The strong culture building really needs to be done inside the club. You can sprout about culture in the media all you like, but it's what happens inside those 4 walls that matters.

And the Butters era will probably been know as when we really turned from AFL basketcase to middle of the road club. His cost cutting measures and off field stability are still a hallmark of the current administration, which has also benefited from the AFL Equalisation programs.

We've sold games to NZ, and i think we have a reasonably thought out, long term plan for the club over there. I'm all for untapped markets, so I think if we can retain some sort of control over our destiny there (vs. the AFL's vision for world domination), then it's a better deal than Tassie.

Sponsorship seems to have been fairly stable. We can debate all we want about having a betting company as a sponsor, but if they keep pouring the cash in, we've hardly sold our soul in the deal thus far.

Moorabbin was a bit of a disaster. Should we have stayed in Moorabbin - Yes. Did we have total control over the situation - No. Could we have pushed harder - Maybe. I'm sure everyone involved with the club would have preferred Moorabbin over the alternatives, but that wasn't to be. I really think what is best for those involved is to cut the ties now. We've made the decision to move the club's base to Seaford, we need to stand by that decision. No more family days. No more open training. I dont fully understand the situation with the social club and pokies, but we need to consolidate the club into one location. I see it a bit like, you've married a girl, but you've left some stuff at your old girlfriends house, and everytime you go over there you can't help but think what it might have been like if you'd married her instead. We need to take our stuff home, and enjoy married life, because that's the commitment we've made.

I think our alignment with Sandy is much healthier than it ever was with Casey. I'm sure every club would prefer to have their stand alone team, and maybe some time down the track we will have ours, and i'm sure Sandy understands that. It seems like we are much more in partnership with Sandringham, and they know that even if our deal with them ends, they're a strong enough club to survive as a stand alone team, where i'm not sure Casey had the same belief.

I'm happy with where the club is at. I think Watters is the right guy for the current environment (development of kids), and although Westaway get a lot of crap for being silent and invisible, give me that over Fathead McGuire any day. The club is in transition right now, on and off field, and I look forward to the new heirachy, be it McLeod or whoever, building on the fairly strong base that Butters and Westaway have put in place.

[Animal Enclosure]

Ian Mc.Leod will be the saviour. And SW is the right man.

Based on what. No nothing of Mcleod and surely the jury is out on SW. Yes he is playing young guys but obviously not much choice. he could be a great coach or maybe he wont. Nothing to say either way yet except bias because he is coaching us now. Wait until he is eventually sacked which hopefully wont happen for many years.

McLeod has turned Coles around & they are now kicking the bejeezus out of Woolies. If its wasn't for Woolies having a significant number more stores, Coles would be the absolute dominant force by a long way.

Members should be very happy that an operator of the calibre of Ian McLeod is on our board. It would be massive if he did take over as President but I believe Jack Rush is the man ear marked.

To the OP- I understand totally what you're saying but a number of the decisions & directions taked were forced upon the club. The two that have hurt more than any IMO were the move from Moorabbin (that was forced by the local council at the time) & losing Tassie as a market (which was more about GT not liking to play there).

[Dis Believer]

I think SW was given the job because the club knew EXACTLY where we were at as a team , even if they didn't admit it publicly. We had one more roll of the dice left in SW's first year, and then we were into rebuild full-on, and I think he is perceived as the best choice of coach for a team needing development. I am actually surprised at how the club were able to ease the rebuild message onto supporters and get away with it - it was very apparent, I was surprised it seemed to be a shock to so many.

I think we are heading int hte right direction in terms of list as well - we seem to be tracking for ra more even spread of talent, and we seem to be moving away as a supporter base from the messiah complex we historically love so much. Talk of young players now is about having enough young talent and a critical eye is cast more upon whether or not a young player has the tools to contribute to our next flag tilt. There is more focus on the list, and less desire for a superstar to direct adoration towards. That mentallity to me has its roots in the GT era, and is an evolution resulting fromthe journey our club has taken in the past decade.

Admin and PR wise, we feel like we've been in a holding pattern since Lyon left. I don't think we knew what the message was that we could carry to the public, and that clear vision of what we are about is what actually drives so much else. I think we will start to cut a clear direction again from this off-season. The message will be one of regeneration, youth, building a new era on the foundations of the high performance of the past decade.....

[gringo]

I would suggest the move toward a full time footy department manager in Pelchen is a step forward. We allowed GT and Ross to do what ever they liked in list management, recruiting, development what ever. We have a boss in charge of guys with designated roles. The fact that we have started to place a massive emphasis on developing the kids and bought in people to coach Sandy with a foot in our camp shows we are trying to make us competitive with Geelong, Collingwood, WCE etc.

I see it as having a plan in place that is overseen by a professional operator with runs on the board. We have taken a big step forward with a publicity agent posting fluff on our players and giving insights into the players personalities. It's easy to bag the board when we are on the slide but credit where it's due they are going pretty well all in all.

We don't have sponsorship dollars or huge membership money to blow but are doing a good job with the little we have. Moorabin is a nice dream but who has a spare $6million or so to do it.

A stand alone is a great aspiration but who pays for it? Getting the best kids in is everyones mission statement but when you inherit a list that has about 4 players between 21 and 29 it's not an easy fix while remaining competitive.

[joffaboy]

I think SW was given the job because the club knew EXACTLY where we were at as a team , even if they didn't admit it publicly. We had one more roll of the dice left in SW's first year, and then we were into rebuild full-on, and I think he is perceived as the best choice of coach for a team needing development. I am actually surprised at how the club were able to ease the rebuild message onto supporters and get away with it - it was very apparent, I was surprised it seemed to be a shock to so many.

Agree entirely with this

I think we are heading int hte right direction in terms of list as well - we seem to be tracking for ra more even spread of talent, and we seem to be moving away as a supporter base from the messiah complex we historically love so much. Talk of young players now is about having enough young talent and a critical eye is cast more upon whether or not a young player has the tools to contribute to our next flag tilt. There is more focus on the list, and less desire for a superstar to direct adoration towards. That mentallity to me has its roots in the GT era, and is an evolution resulting fromthe journey our club has taken in the past decade.

I think this is pretty close to the mark as well

Admin and PR wise, we feel like we've been in a holding pattern since Lyon left. I don't think we knew what the message was that we could carry to the public, and that clear vision of what we are about is what actually drives so much else. I think we will start to cut a clear direction again from this off-season. The message will be one of regeneration, youth, building a new era on the foundations of the high performance of the past decade.....

Hard to sell to a supporter base that has had ten years of genuine hope of a flag. Can see it in the drop off of memberships.

We really had a golden decade and couldn't get closer to winning a flag than we did.

To try and mold a message that basically says, we are going to get whacked for a few years while we put together the next challenge is unpalatable to a supporter base who has seen 1 flag in 140 years.

A very difficult situation for the admin.

[stinger]

Ian Mc.Leod will be the saviour. And SW is the right man.

hope you are right mate,,,,,

[spert]

No guarantees in this business- SW may or may not be the right man, no noticeable evidence yet from what I have seen, and we do need a passionate president and board, not just a collective of people who are successful in various fields and feel as if the next step is to nominate or be nominated for a board position at an AFL club.
Butters and GT had real passion and desire for the Saints to succeed, wore their hearts on their sleeves and maybe just letting GT run free, with its consequences, could have been the right step for the club regardless of whatever issues with Butters. This and last season don't give a lot of hope, and I don't sense much demonstrated passion at all from those directing the club- the profile of the club seems to be diminishing.

[HitTheBoundary]

Does anyone close to the club have an inkling as to who the next President will be?
Has any internal decision been made yet?

And if so, then what changes should we expect to see?

[gringo]

Does anyone close to the club have an inkling as to who the next President will be?
Has any internal decision been made yet?

And if so, then what changes should we expect to see?

That QC guy was what I heard but I've gone blank on his name. Jack Rush?

[Dis Believer]

Does anyone close to the club have an inkling as to who the next President will be?
Has any internal decision been made yet?

And if so, then what changes should we expect to see?

I've heard McLeod's name come up more than once, but who really knows.........

[GoSaintersGo]

Does anyone close to the club have an inkling as to who the next President will be?
Has any internal decision been made yet?

And if so, then what changes should we expect to see?

I've heard McLeod's name come up more than once, but who really knows.........

I have heard that Lindsay Fox's son could be a candidate.

[PADDLEPOP1001]

We need a passionate president,someone who is willing to make changes and get us back out into the marketplace!

[tony74]

We need a mover and a shaker, not a yes man. A President who will not put up with mediocrity both on and off the field. A President who can be ruthless when needed. A President who is a passionate Sainter.I've given you his name.

[Con Gorozidis]

Well our last Scotsman was no good but I'm not going to hold a grudge against an entire race!

If he has time - then Ian Mcleod could well be very good.

[MC Gusto]

Ian Mcleod

[saintbrat]

Does anyone close to the club have an inkling as to who the next President will be?
Has any internal decision been made yet?

And if so, then what changes should we expect to see?

I've heard McLeod's name come up more than once, but who really knows.........

I have heard that Lindsay Fox's son could be a candidate.

Does he give Money to the Blues Like LIndsey did? has he ever displayed his allegiance to the saints? what is his name?