St Kilda in St Kilda: the End Game.

[saint6709]

Talking of Seaford I drove past the other day it's already falling down. It looks like a third world shanty town now. The signage that faces the freeway has lost half the letters so says "linen oue" the huge shield crest has broken in half so has half of it and globs of glue where it once stood. There is some dumped crap surrounded by a temporary fence that is crooked and half fallen over. It looks embarrassing. It's so far worse than even most suburban club grounds. We have made it look just as bad as moorabin was before we moved. Are we a deficient club? Are the decision makers mentally impaired? WTF is going on down there. The grass is browned and it's not even hot yet. Just sad.

Was going to post about this - have been living in Sydney 3 years and used to do the run through seafood a lot as my parents live on the Peninsula --anyway was driving back to Melb down the new link rd which runs straight past our training facilities for the first time last week with family - pointed out the saints current 'home' - my 9 year old who is still a fan despite our living in Sydney and the saints recent form just said - " oh my god the shields half down - that's embarrassing " - I could only agree with him. We can't move to St Kilda fast enough IMO

[saint6709]

If you cant imagine what success looks like at the JO look no further than the Rabbitohs.
Sydney City Council upgraded Redfern Oval in 2008/9 for $20m bucks as their training facility. Classic inner urban club culture.
3km from the CBD. Huge following all over NSW. Real momentum these last 5 years.

I am mates with the CF0 at Rabbittohs who is driving their success - he did a 5 yr stint at Chelsea in uk - I also know Westaway and for a year or 2 tried to arrange a tour of the saints set up and meet n greet as my Rabbitohs mate is always looking to improve what they are doing and also could probably have offered some knowledge back to the saints - Westaway never invited the meeting.... If anyone is on the inside with the current st Kilda admin I know my mate would still very much like the tour

[gringo]

Talking of Seaford I drove past the other day it's already falling down. It looks like a third world shanty town now. The signage that faces the freeway has lost half the letters so says "linen oue" the huge shield crest has broken in half so has half of it and globs of glue where it once stood. There is some dumped crap surrounded by a temporary fence that is crooked and half fallen over. It looks embarrassing. It's so far worse than even most suburban club grounds. We have made it look just as bad as moorabin was before we moved. Are we a deficient club? Are the decision makers mentally impaired? WTF is going on down there. The grass is browned and it's not even hot yet. Just sad.

If this is true, then the St Kilda football club should - to a person - hang their head and be ashamed. That is is inexcusable for any club with dozens of able-bodied personnel, let alone a professional sporting club with thousands of paying members. I will choose to believe it's an exaggeration until I see photos, because I can't believe that the custodians of our club care so little about it that they would present such a broken image to the public.

It doesn't matter how much you hate the place, for now it's our home and it deserves respect. It's like your parents sending you off to school with a ripped shirt and holes in your shoes.

I echo these words from the quote above: "Are the decision makers mentally impaired? WTF is going on down there."

Maybe we don't deserve to survive if that is the best we can do.

I wanted to stop and get a picture but it's a freeway so you can't stop. Disgraceful effort by the ground staff. They need to water the ground too- I'm not sure if they have water storage on site but how can every other lawn in Melbourne be green and ours is browning? The whole place is pretty hidden and you can only really see it properly coming from the peninsula end. Someone needs to get on to the maintenance soon.If I was Linen House I would be cracking the absolute s***s with them. It rubbishes both our brands.

[Con Gorozidis]

I think we need to get out of the fantasy of Seaford as a 'world class facility.' Its like an episode of the Utopia. Its not world class. Its not 'state of the art'. Its not even 'Melbourne class'. Its just s***. It was a dumb decision at the time and its still a dumb decision. No amount of PR and spin change it.

As far as Im concerned the JO is the only option. Anything else is 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th best.

For me it is:

1. Junction

2. Moorabbin
3. Sandy
4. Frankston beach oval
5. Seaford 'world class'

Seaford is/was always 5h best imo.

The club will wither and die if we rot down there for another decade.

[3rd generation saint]

If you cant imagine what success looks like at the JO look no further than the Rabbitohs.
Sydney City Council upgraded Redfern Oval in 2008/9 for $20m bucks as their training facility. Classic inner urban club culture.
3km from the CBD. Huge following all over NSW. Real momentum these last 5 years.

Fantastic call.

We could be hosting NAB matches at our own home. Our real home. Imagine that?

The potential we have before us is something to behold.

No we wont, remember, the Junction Oval will be solely used for cricket, no football will played ir even trained on the oval.
There is an old maxim, if the deal sounds too good, it is because it probably is, I do not want to go back and become a second class citizen at the facility to cricket. That's one of the reasons why we left in the first place.
Look what happened to Melbourne, basically kicked off their home ground due to cricket and have been nomads since.
Personally, I would much rather go back to Moorabbin, there is more room to expand and be at the heart of where our supporter base is and it is where we have had the most of what little success we have had.
As for backpackers, why would they want a 3 game membership, especially when the peak season for backpackers to come down here is summer, and last I recall, not too many games played between September and March, unless they want to see a Victory or City game, which is probably more the code they would be interested in.
I mean if being in St.Kilda means such commercial success, why aren't the major corporations moving their headquarters there. Look if we set up in St.Kilda, money will magically flow in because that equal success.
Fair dinkum, when it comes to this subject, there is such grandeurs of delusion here. If being close to the city centre equals success, how many premierships have Richmond in the last 35 years? or Melbourne in the last 50 years? How often have they even made the finals. We are way ahead of them in finals appearances over that same period of time.
Reality check please

[Con Gorozidis]

There are a heap of corporate headquarters in St Kilda Road
The Tiges have 60,000 members.
Melbourne experimented at Casey Fields
None one is saying JO = a flag.
We are saying JO = survival.
You have to grow just to survive. I dont think we can grow anywhere but the JO. Id be happy at Moorabbin as well. I just the think the JO is better.

As for the cricket thing - well thats a no brainer. Obviously the JO is only a viable option if suitable arrangements are made with cricket. If that cant be done then the JO is completely off the table anyways. The pro JO camp is working on the assumption the cricket issue will be dealt with properly.

[Austinnn]

No we wont, remember, the Junction Oval will be solely used for cricket, no football will played ir even trained on the oval.
There is an old maxim, if the deal sounds too good, it is because it probably is, I do not want to go back and become a second class citizen at the facility to cricket. That's one of the reasons why we left in the first place.
Look what happened to Melbourne, basically kicked off their home ground due to cricket and have been nomads since.
Personally, I would much rather go back to Moorabbin, there is more room to expand and be at the heart of where our supporter base is and it is where we have had the most of what little success we have had.
As for backpackers, why would they want a 3 game membership, especially when the peak season for backpackers to come down here is summer, and last I recall, not too many games played between September and March, unless they want to see a Victory or City game, which is probably more the code they would be interested in.
I mean if being in St.Kilda means such commercial success, why aren't the major corporations moving their headquarters there. Look if we set up in St.Kilda, money will magically flow in because that equal success.
Fair dinkum, when it comes to this subject, there is such grandeurs of delusion here. If being close to the city centre equals success, how many premierships have Richmond in the last 35 years? or Melbourne in the last 50 years? How often have they even made the finals. We are way ahead of them in finals appearances over that same period of time.
Reality check please

Good points..
Agree about the cricket thing. Obviously.
Con is right, we're not saying we'll succeed just because we move, but it will take this move just to keep us in the game.
Forget the backpacker thing, that's a fancy. But no doubt our presence will be enhanced. It's not even an arguable point, if you actually stop and think about it rather than trying keep a lid on the optimistic posters' expectations.

The major corporations you speak of, are these the ones located in Seaford or Moorabbin? Or the ones located in the city and on St Kilda Road, on the way down to JO? Does Melbourne still have the Grand Prix racing event, situated very close to JO? Is Bernice Eccleston currently in talks to change the location to Springvale or Frankston?

Yes as you have said, and as P66 has tiringly pointed out, we do still need to have a good footy team to succeed. Obviously. Thank goodness.

You are right that this is becoming an emotive issue but let's try not not have two polar extremes. Just as it will not guarantee our success as an unstoppable financial and sporting megapower to rival Real Madrid, neither will it make no difference. Some of us have already detailed the differences but no one can prove anything one way or the other. The only thing proven sadly, is that so far, Seaford has been a costly mistake which we can't continue to live with.

Yes we could move back to Moorabbin. That would be safe, and we can go back to where we were 10 years ago. I definitely think we should hold on to Moorabbin. This JO thing though, it's the P word. It's Spencer White and Jason Holmes. And Tommy Walsh. As far as I see it, if it's investigated properly and taken on professionally, it needn't be another Seaford. But whether we go back to Moorabbin or return to The Junction, it seems clear most of us do want the club to leave Seaford.

It seems that the staff have already left, to the detriment of our battling club's reputation. Forshame! Heads should roll, in my opinion. If I lived round that way, I'd be going into the club demanding that they fix the signs and water the grass, and if hadn't been done that day, I'd go there again and ask for some tools, a ladder and a hose. This is our club, how can it become so uncared for?

More than anything, this worries me because it says that yet again, the people in charge at our club aren't doing their job. What will it take to get someone down there who can run a club professionally? These people do get paid, don't they?

Wouldn't happen if we were at a high visibility area, would it?

[gringo]

We will share the training facilities the same as Collingwood do with other sports. We will train next to the oval in between the bowls club and the oval and use the same gym, pool and other services as cricket. It allows for a true high standard as it's shared and can attract dual funding. What it does have is the signage and high profile of every car that comes into the southern bottle neck seeing us. Every tourist that rides down to St Kilda on a tram sees us.

[samuraisaint]

I think we need to get out of the fantasy of Seaford as a 'world class facility.' Its like an episode of the Utopia. Its not world class. Its not 'state of the art'. Its not even 'Melbourne class'. Its just s***. It was a dumb decision at the time and its still a dumb decision. No amount of PR and spin change it.

As far as Im concerned the JO is the only option. Anything else is 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th best.

For me it is:

1. Junction

2. Moorabbin
3. Sandy
4. Frankston beach oval
5. Seaford 'world class'

Seaford is/was always 5h best imo.

The club will wither and die if we rot down there for another decade.

I have been a supporter of the Seaford experiment because of theproximity to the peninsula support, but the way the club has let the place degenerate is appaling. Back to the junction for training, and a VFL side playing out of Moorabbin looks like the strategy.

[saint6709]

I think we need to get out of the fantasy of Seaford as a 'world class facility.' Its like an episode of the Utopia. Its not world class. Its not 'state of the art'. Its not even 'Melbourne class'. Its just s***. It was a dumb decision at the time and its still a dumb decision. No amount of PR and spin change it.

As far as Im concerned the JO is the only option. Anything else is 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th best.

For me it is:

1. Junction

2. Moorabbin
3. Sandy
4. Frankston beach oval
5. Seaford 'world class'

Seaford is/was always 5h best imo.

The club will wither and die if we rot down there for another decade.

I have been a supporter of the Seaford experiment because of theproximity to the peninsula support, but the way the club has let the place degenerate is appaling. Back to the junction for training, and a VFL side playing out of Moorabbin looks like the strategy.

With all due respect. What is it about the peninsula support that appealed to you ?? Port Phillip bay south of the Yarra is what is entirely open to st Kilda - why pass all those places and go an hours drive to concentrate on the peninsula ??!

[Dave McNamara]

I think we need to get out of the fantasy of Seaford as a 'world class facility.' Its like an episode of the Utopia. Its not world class. Its not 'state of the art'. Its not even 'Melbourne class'. Its just s***. It was a dumb decision at the time and its still a dumb decision. No amount of PR and spin change it.

As far as Im concerned the JO is the only option. Anything else is 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th best.

For me it is:

1. Junction

2. Moorabbin
3. Sandy
4. Frankston beach oval
5. Seaford 'world class'

Seaford is/was always 5h best imo.

The club will wither and die if we rot down there for another decade.

I have been a supporter of the Seaford experiment because of theproximity to the peninsula support, but the way the club has let the place degenerate is appaling. Back to the junction for training, and a VFL side playing out of Moorabbin looks like the strategy.

With all due respect. What is it about the peninsula support that appealed to you ?? Port Phillip bay south of the Yarra is what is entirely open to st Kilda - why pass all those places and go an hours drive to concentrate on the peninsula ??!

IMHO we can still represent Port Melbourne to Portsea. From memory, one reason in favour of the move to Moorabbin back in the '60s was that the club worked-out that most of our supporters were based down the bayside... ie; that occurred despite our being based at St Kilda for the best part of a century.

[Dave McNamara]

First class level (and above) cricket pitches:

I don't get why we can't train (and eventually play) on the Junction Oval, once the District and First Class seasons are over(?) And yes, I realise that top level cricketers now train for most of the year... but they don't play centre wicket matches in Melbs in winter... because they can't.

Apart from the MCG, how many other test (let alone lower level) venues have drop in pitches? Yet they play footy boots with stops winter sports on those other venues. And always have.

The Junction Oval pitch is fine, it isn't a drop in, and footy is currently played there in winter. I just don't see the issue with sharing, a bit of give (by us actually) and take for the mutual major benefit of all. Just no reason why the ground should suddenly have to sit empty and unused for half the year.

[Dave McNamara]

If you cant imagine what success looks like at the JO look no further than the Rabbitohs.
Sydney City Council upgraded Redfern Oval in 2008/9 for $20m bucks as their training facility. Classic inner urban club culture.
3km from the CBD. Huge following all over NSW. Real momentum these last 5 years.

I am mates with the CF0 at Rabbittohs who is driving their success - he did a 5 yr stint at Chelsea in uk - I also know Westaway and for a year or 2 tried to arrange a tour of the saints set up and meet n greet as my Rabbitohs mate is always looking to improve what they are doing and also could probably have offered some knowledge back to the saints - Westaway never invited the meeting.... If anyone is on the inside with the current st Kilda admin I know my mate would still very much like the tour

One of the themes to emerge from Plugg's 'Sliding Doors' thread has been the off-field 'proactivity' the 'getting out there' of the Dawks.

Next time someone from our club is on here getting inspiration from this forum...

please, please, get onto s'6709, so we can take-up his (her?) wonderful offer to make a connection with the Rabbitohs.

Their inner city geographic setting alone has major similarities with what we could achieve. So if we have a gold-plated opportunity to make a connection with and pick the brain of the bloke who is driving the Rabbitohs' initiative... we've just gotta go for it I reckon!

[Con Gorozidis]

If you cant imagine what success looks like at the JO look no further than the Rabbitohs.
Sydney City Council upgraded Redfern Oval in 2008/9 for $20m bucks as their training facility. Classic inner urban club culture.
3km from the CBD. Huge following all over NSW. Real momentum these last 5 years.

I am mates with the CF0 at Rabbittohs who is driving their success - he did a 5 yr stint at Chelsea in uk - I also know Westaway and for a year or 2 tried to arrange a tour of the saints set up and meet n greet as my Rabbitohs mate is always looking to improve what they are doing and also could probably have offered some knowledge back to the saints - Westaway never invited the meeting.... If anyone is on the inside with the current st Kilda admin I know my mate would still very much like the tour

One of the themes to emerge from Plugg's 'Sliding Doors' thread has been the off-field 'proactivity' the 'getting out there' of the Dawks.

Next time someone from our club is on here getting inspiration from this forum...

please, please, get onto s'6709, so we can take-up his (her?) wonderful offer to make a connection with the Rabbitohs.

Their inner city geographic setting alone has major similarities with what we could achieve. So if we have a gold-plated opportunity to make a connection with and pick the brain of the bloke who is driving the Rabbitohs' initiative... we've just gotta go for it I reckon!

Agree. Westaway no longer part of the club so maybe contact the club directly.

[Dave McNamara]

Oh Davey Mac that is a shocking, distressing photo of that wee Mousie, .......................... I'm sure Robbie Burns would not be impressed to see an earth-born companion meet such an end.

And I hope Robbie Burns words don't come back to haunt after our pitch for returning to the Junction Oval.

"The best laid schemes o' mice an' men
Gang aft a-gley,
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain
For promis'd joy."

Oh Loris, but it works sooooo well on Pluggsy, what with his eggplant-free diet, and all...

However, I respect and acknowledge your point, and causing distress is never the aim.

So do you think this one might work better in the future...?

[plugger66]

Oh Davey Mac that is a shocking, distressing photo of that wee Mousie, .......................... I'm sure Robbie Burns would not be impressed to see an earth-born companion meet such an end.

And I hope Robbie Burns words don't come back to haunt after our pitch for returning to the Junction Oval.

"The best laid schemes o' mice an' men
Gang aft a-gley,
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain
For promis'd joy."

Oh Loris, but it works sooooo well on Pluggsy, what with his eggplant-free diet, and all...

However, I respect and acknowledge your point, and causing distress is never the aim.

So do you think this one might work better in the future...?

Have you seen a doctor yet? Weird person. And where are the saints training if they go to St Kilda?

[Verdun66]

If you cant imagine what success looks like at the JO look no further than the Rabbitohs.
Sydney City Council upgraded Redfern Oval in 2008/9 for $20m bucks as their training facility. Classic inner urban club culture.
3km from the CBD. Huge following all over NSW. Real momentum these last 5 years.

I am mates with the CF0 at Rabbittohs who is driving their success - he did a 5 yr stint at Chelsea in uk - I also know Westaway and for a year or 2 tried to arrange a tour of the saints set up and meet n greet as my Rabbitohs mate is always looking to improve what they are doing and also could probably have offered some knowledge back to the saints - Westaway never invited the meeting.... If anyone is on the inside with the current st Kilda admin I know my mate would still very much like the tour

One of the themes to emerge from Plugg's 'Sliding Doors' thread has been the off-field 'proactivity' the 'getting out there' of the Dawks.

Next time someone from our club is on here getting inspiration from this forum...

please, please, get onto s'6709, so we can take-up his (her?) wonderful offer to make a connection with the Rabbitohs.

Their inner city geographic setting alone has major similarities with what we could achieve. So if we have a gold-plated opportunity to make a connection with and pick the brain of the bloke who is driving the Rabbitohs' initiative... we've just gotta go for it I reckon!

Agree. Westaway no longer part of the club so maybe contact the club directly.

Westaway was asleep at the wheel. Was a poor President.

[andrewg]

If Moorabin city council came to the party Seaford wouldn't have even happened...wtf happened with that!

Let's get that sign fixed.....I agree high standards should be everywhere....it should joust be in the culture of the club.

[Austinnn]

First class level (and above) cricket pitches:

I don't get why we can't train (and eventually play) on the Junction Oval, once the District and First Class seasons are over(?) And yes, I realise that top level cricketers now train for most of the year... but they don't play centre wicket matches in Melbs in winter... because they can't.

Apart from the MCG, how many other test (let alone lower level) venues have drop in pitches? Yet they play footy boots with stops winter sports on those other venues. And always have.

The Junction Oval pitch is fine, it isn't a drop in, and footy is currently played there in winter. I just don't see the issue with sharing, a bit of give (by us actually) and take for the mutual major benefit of all. Just no reason why the ground should suddenly have to sit empty and unused for half the year.

I would also like this answered. I'm not being a smartarse, I genuinely would like to know why, as I know nothing about cricket. Anyone?

[Austinnn]

Let's get that sign fixed.....I agree high standards should be everywhere....it should just be in the culture of the club.

Absolutely. Priority number one as far as I'm concerned. But I also want an explanation for why it has been allowed to get into that state initially. Someone isn't doing their job.

[plugger66]

First class level (and above) cricket pitches:

I don't get why we can't train (and eventually play) on the Junction Oval, once the District and First Class seasons are over(?) And yes, I realise that top level cricketers now train for most of the year... but they don't play centre wicket matches in Melbs in winter... because they can't.

Apart from the MCG, how many other test (let alone lower level) venues have drop in pitches? Yet they play footy boots with stops winter sports on those other venues. And always have.

The Junction Oval pitch is fine, it isn't a drop in, and footy is currently played there in winter. I just don't see the issue with sharing, a bit of give (by us actually) and take for the mutual major benefit of all. Just no reason why the ground should suddenly have to sit empty and unused for half the year.

I would also like this answered. I'm not being a smartarse, I genuinely would like to know why, as I know nothing about cricket. Anyone?

The answer is quite simple. make no mistake this decision to maybe fix up the JO is because of cricket. We are an add on to get money into the project so cricket will have complete control of the ground. We will use the fitness faculties with them. And because they have complete control of the ground why would they want to have any footy players training on the ground when they will be given their own ground over the road. If footy is played at the ground they cant start doing centre wicket training until at least 4 weeks after the footy season ends so that they prepare the wickets. If we train until the last Saturday in September then the ground designed for cricket wouldn't be available for centre wicket training until the end of October. Why would CV agree to that? What do they get from it? Why does it matter if we train at the JO or the ground over the road? How does it help us? The ground isn't even a good size for training for footy where as Im sure they will make the ground outside the size of the G or at least Etihad.

[Con Gorozidis]

If Moorabin city council came to the party Seaford wouldn't have even happened...wtf happened with that!

Let's get that sign fixed.....I agree high standards should be everywhere....it should joust be in the culture of the club.

It was one bloke and Fraser clearly had rubbish negotiation skills if he was unable to handle one recalcitrant. There were several options he could have explored before packing his bags and driving down the highway like a little baby. Firstly he could have put the pokie issue on the side burner and just got the go ahead for the redevelopment. Then a few a years later - once it was all done and too late to change (and the bloke had probably moved on or changed his view anyway) bang - we go the pokies.

[saintbrat]

some relevant- or Not connection to the discussion.. ( no mention of saints)
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/m ... 7075709610

the reason thatAFL/ VFL are desperate to get Cricket onto JO( and saints onto adjacent ground ( and Moorabbin) - is because they are looking for grounds WITHOUT cricket pitches- not even drop in.
Hence Sandringham - TBBO - is so well used- No sharing.

[Dave McNamara]

I've only read the article, not listened yet to the audio. No mention of the AFL not wanting cricket pitches. (Is it in the audio?)

But regardless, how many AFL venues do not have a cricket pitch? The MCG is not one.


And I certainly hope those Dreamon tankards don't end up at Elsternwick. They've been trying for years to muscle into OUR heartland!

[Con Gorozidis]

I've only read the article, not listened yet to the audio. No mention of the AFL not wanting cricket pitches. (Is it in the audio?)

But regardless, how many AFL venues do not have a cricket pitch? The MCG is not one.


And I certainly hope those Dreamon tankards don't end up at Elsternwick. They've been trying for years to muscle into OUR heartland!

Yep and we abandoned our heartland and headed half an hours drive away from it into a total wasteland for no good reason.