Jack Steven contract

[lewdogs]

So Jack is a restricted free agent at the end of next year. A glaring omission in the future fest. Is it safe to say that Jack is gone? Does Jack want out or are we looking at pick 2?

If we are banking pick 2 for Jack it would be a moronic move, he's the only proven young midfielder in our side. I'm still hoping he signs on, but hold grave concerns.

[plugger66]

So Jack is a restricted free agent at the end of next year. A glaring omission in the future fest. Is it safe to say that Jack is gone? Does Jack want out or are we looking at pick 2?

If we are banking pick 2 for Jack it would be a moronic move, he's the only proven young midfielder in our side. I'm still hoping he signs on, but hold grave concerns.

Has to be some doubt about him signing but we do need to try and keep him. He is our only mid with pace.

[Goose is king]

I would of thought we could offer Jack a large contract given we have to pay someone
I'm not concerned

[saintsRrising]

So Jack is a restricted free agent at the end of next year. A glaring omission in the future fest. Is it safe to say that Jack is gone? Does Jack want out or are we looking at pick 2?

If we are banking pick 2 for Jack it would be a moronic move, he's the only proven young midfielder in our side. I'm still hoping he signs on, but hold grave concerns.

Has to be some doubt about him signing but we do need to try and keep him. He is our only mid with pace.

The bigger issue is that he is our only younger mid ...slow OR quick....who has shown that when fit he can play at an elite AFL level.

The others are only maybes, or support mids.

[lewdogs]

So Jack is a restricted free agent at the end of next year. A glaring omission in the future fest. Is it safe to say that Jack is gone? Does Jack want out or are we looking at pick 2?

If we are banking pick 2 for Jack it would be a moronic move, he's the only proven young midfielder in our side. I'm still hoping he signs on, but hold grave concerns.

Has to be some doubt about him signing but we do need to try and keep him. He is our only mid with pace.

The bigger issue is that he is our only mid ...slow OR quick....who has shown that when fit he can play at an elite AFL level.

The others are only maybes, or support mids.

Which is why we should be trying bloody hard to keep him.

[saintbrat]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=87481&p=1512681&hilit=jack#p1512681

[Junction Oval]

To date, we have been successful with our re-signings. jack would have to be in the "must re-sign" category, so perhaps the rumour has some strength.

Plenty of time yet to get the deal done and we are not under salary cap pressure.

[Playon]

No club as yet has matched an offer from an opposition club to retain a restricted free agent.
If he hasn't signed before the trade period he's as good as gone (if history tells us anything)

Best to keep him in the 2s until he signs I'm not that sure we'll finish on the bottom next year, we had a lot of injuries and there may be other teams that slide. Whats the minimum pick we'd be happy with?
Otherwise its sit him down and say Jack what do we need to do to, to get you to sign.
Keeping in mind his dollar value versus a heap of mids in the next 2 years worth of drafts

If we got 4th pick from where we finished, would pick 5 be enough? or worse. If we loose our required players we'll be in trouble for a LONG time. Jack is a guaranteed good player, a pick isn't

[remboy]

At this stage I wasn't aware that we'd put an offer to him or his management or that they had said he's not signing until the end of the year. Plenty of time before we need to get concerned.
However, for the sake of the thread -PANIC! Let's trade him now or just delist him if he won't sign tomorrow.

[Con Gorozidis]

No club as yet has matched an offer from an opposition club to retain a restricted free agent.
If he hasn't signed before the trade period he's as good as gone (if history tells us anything)

Best to keep him in the 2s until he signs I'm not that sure we'll finish on the bottom next year, we had a lot of injuries and there may be other teams that slide. Whats the minimum pick we'd be happy with?
Otherwise its sit him down and say Jack what do we need to do to, to get you to sign.
Keeping in mind his dollar value versus a heap of mids in the next 2 years worth of drafts

If we got 4th pick from where we finished, would pick 5 be enough? or worse. If we loose our required players we'll be in trouble for a LONG time. Jack is a guaranteed good player, a pick isn't

Pick 3 minimum for me.
But I want him to stay -lets be clear about that.

But lets say he is thinking ok im 25/26. Im approaching my peak in the next 2-3 years and want to play finals.
If thats what he is thinking then pick 3 minimum. which means itd have to be compo and wed finish 2nd last.
Of course we have a big advantage in cash. he will be 2nd or 3rd highest player at the saints. At a good club hed only be 8-10 th or so.

Becomes more complicated if we chase Shiel or Sloane hard.

[St Ick]

It all comes down to how loyal he wants to be, it'll be tougher for him to stay with us as he will be tagged almost every game - he will probably get more cash on an open market too.

He could probably get success earlier too.

BUT, if he buys into the club and the rebuild it'll mean so much more to him when he retires.

Having said that, if we pick up a Parish type with pick one and Treloar with the compensation pick two it could potentially not be entirely disasterous.

[remboy]

No club as yet has matched an offer from an opposition club to retain a restricted free agent.
If he hasn't signed before the trade period he's as good as gone (if history tells us anything)

Best to keep him in the 2s until he signs I'm not that sure we'll finish on the bottom next year, we had a lot of injuries and there may be other teams that slide. Whats the minimum pick we'd be happy with?
Otherwise its sit him down and say Jack what do we need to do to, to get you to sign.
Keeping in mind his dollar value versus a heap of mids in the next 2 years worth of drafts

If we got 4th pick from where we finished, would pick 5 be enough? or worse. If we loose our required players we'll be in trouble for a LONG time. Jack is a guaranteed good player, a pick isn't

Pick 3 minimum for me.
But I want him to stay -lets be clear about that.


But lets say he is thinking ok im 25/26. Im approaching my peak in the next 2-3 years and want to play finals.
If thats what he is thinking then pick 3 minimum. which means itd have to be compo and wed finish 2nd last.
Of course we have a big advantage in cash. he will be 2nd or 3rd highest player at the saints. At a good club hed only be 8-10 th or so.

Becomes more complicated if we chase Shiel or Sloane hard.

If he leaves as a free agent we'd have to be a good chance of getting band 1 compo, which is the pick after our first pick. However, you've got to draw a line at how many players we lose in the quest for early picks. We'd be on a constant rebuild cycle - drafting quality talent and then losing it at the first opportunity.

[plugger66]

No club as yet has matched an offer from an opposition club to retain a restricted free agent.
If he hasn't signed before the trade period he's as good as gone (if history tells us anything)

Best to keep him in the 2s until he signs I'm not that sure we'll finish on the bottom next year, we had a lot of injuries and there may be other teams that slide. Whats the minimum pick we'd be happy with?
Otherwise its sit him down and say Jack what do we need to do to, to get you to sign.
Keeping in mind his dollar value versus a heap of mids in the next 2 years worth of drafts

If we got 4th pick from where we finished, would pick 5 be enough? or worse. If we loose our required players we'll be in trouble for a LONG time. Jack is a guaranteed good player, a pick isn't

Pick 3 minimum for me.
But I want him to stay -lets be clear about that.

But lets say he is thinking ok im 25/26. Im approaching my peak in the next 2-3 years and want to play finals.
If thats what he is thinking then pick 3 minimum. which means itd have to be compo and wed finish 2nd last.
Of course we have a big advantage in cash. he will be 2nd or 3rd highest player at the saints. At a good club hed only be 8-10 th or so.

Becomes more complicated if we chase Shiel or Sloane hard.

If he is 8th to 10th highest paid player at another club then we aren't getting first round compensation. If he has a year like last year he would easily be in the top 5 paid players at any club which IMO gets us pick 2 because I cannot see how we could possibly get off the bottom next season. I still don't know why people think we are chasing Shiel or Sloane. For a start I reckon Sloane is certain to re sign and Shiel has 16 others clubs to go to apart from us if he wants to leave GWS.

[Playon]

Our long term plan was to take a free agent ourselves next year ( yeah plans change)
But to do that we'd lose any compensation that we'd get for Jack unless we defy history and match another clubs offer.

Just to throw another spanner into the works.

Lose him take the pick and no free agent

Pay him Goddard type money, and take a free agent (or not).

I'd imagine he'd have to go if the dollars were high. There will come a come when were struggling for cap space.

Also wonders how far his contract is front loaded

[Eastern]

My concern with Jack is that the bigger clubs are following Hawthorn's lead and "Cherry Picking" to top up their lists. I suspect that Collingwood, Geelong & possibly Essendon have already made serious enquiries.

Let's hope that he just wants to re-capture his 2013 form before re-signing with US !!

[Junction Oval]

One thing ...... he ain't a great kick

[Dave McNamara]

Becomes more complicated if we chase Shiel or Sloane hard.

Good point, Con!

Doesn't it work that if a club loses a bloke to FA, but at the same time also picks someone up through FA, then compensation (if any) is 'adjusted' down?

So, even if we finished last in 2015, Jack out for a Sheil or Sloane-type in would 'balance out' at no compensation to us(?)

If a club is losing someone to FA, they don't want to pick up someone through FA in the same year.

So the above scenario (for example Sheil or Sloan in, but Jack out) would mean that playing list strength-wise we'd be pretty much treading water. We (clearly) need to advance.

And even a very high pick for Jack. Ok, the bloke would most likely be a bit younger, but he'd have to end up damn good for our list to be strengthened.

So for me, I want to keep Jack - unless he really wants out. And if he really wants out, I'd be not picking anyone up through FA in 2015.

[citywest]

I agree Dave. If Steven wants to leave and we get pick 2 for him then I reckon we should not go after a FA. Just go to the draft with picks 1, 2, 20 and 38 and pick 4 of the best midfielders and walk away. Rebuild would then be more than 75% complete IMHFO.

[Con Gorozidis]

If he leaves as a free agent we'd have to be a good chance of getting band 1 compo, which is the pick after our first pick. However, you've got to draw a line at how many players we lose in the quest for early picks. We'd be on a constant rebuild cycle - drafting quality talent and then losing it at the first opportunity.

Yeah but isnt our entire list strategy getting a critical mass of high end talent all at a similar age?
So we have 12 guns within 4 years age of each other so they are all peaking at the same time?

[Con Gorozidis]

If he is 8th to 10th highest paid player at another club then we aren't getting first round compensation. If he has a year like last year he would easily be in the top 5 paid players at any club which IMO gets us pick 2 because I cannot see how we could possibly get off the bottom next season. I still don't know why people think we are chasing Shiel or Sloane. For a start I reckon Sloane is certain to re sign and Shiel has 16 others clubs to go to apart from us if he wants to leave GWS.

So you think Frawley is in the top 5 paid at the Hawks?
Remember it is not just pay but LENGTH of contract that determines the band. So Frawley gets band one by virtue of a longer contract. On an annual basis he probably isnt top 5 (e.g in 2015).

We will chase a big name. Id be surprised if we landed one. But we will chase one hard.
We have no choice.

[Con Gorozidis]

I agree Dave. If Steven wants to leave and we get pick 2 for him then I reckon we should not go after a FA. Just go to the draft with picks 1, 2, 20 and 38 and pick 4 of the best midfielders and walk away. Rebuild would then be more than 75% complete IMHFO.

Agree - If jack wants out. Lets sit back and pick 2 more kids in the draft top 3.
Then end of 2016 hit FA hard. Then we will have a stockpile of talent on our books.
If Jack wants to stay - he stays.

[remboy]

If he leaves as a free agent we'd have to be a good chance of getting band 1 compo, which is the pick after our first pick. However, you've got to draw a line at how many players we lose in the quest for early picks. We'd be on a constant rebuild cycle - drafting quality talent and then losing it at the first opportunity.

Yeah but isnt our entire list strategy getting a critical mass of high end talent all at a similar age?
So we have 12 guns within 4 years age of each other so they are all peaking at the same time?

It is but if, while we're picking up number one picks, we keep losing our best players, it will take longer to progress.

[dragit]

Shiel is about 5 years away from free agency so has very little to do with the steven situation.

I think we could afford to front end Jack a very attractive offer, if he gets an even better offer then we would get a top 3 pick, it's a good situation really.

[Con Gorozidis]

If he leaves as a free agent we'd have to be a good chance of getting band 1 compo, which is the pick after our first pick. However, you've got to draw a line at how many players we lose in the quest for early picks. We'd be on a constant rebuild cycle - drafting quality talent and then losing it at the first opportunity.

Yeah but isnt our entire list strategy getting a critical mass of high end talent all at a similar age?
So we have 12 guns within 4 years age of each other so they are all peaking at the same time?

It is but if, while we're picking up number one picks, we keep losing our best players, it will take longer to progress.

Jacky boy would be right on the edge of the 'window zone'. 30 in 2020.
But for sure if he wants in we keep him. Agree with you there.

I just thought the convo had moved on to 'what if he wants out'. What if he sees a flag at GWS or GC in 2017 when hes 27?

If we went for Shiel it would have to be a Bulldogs-Boyd-Griffen type of scenario.

[plugger66]

If he is 8th to 10th highest paid player at another club then we aren't getting first round compensation. If he has a year like last year he would easily be in the top 5 paid players at any club which IMO gets us pick 2 because I cannot see how we could possibly get off the bottom next season. I still don't know why people think we are chasing Shiel or Sloane. For a start I reckon Sloane is certain to re sign and Shiel has 16 others clubs to go to apart from us if he wants to leave GWS.

So you think Frawley is in the top 5 paid at the Hawks?
Remember it is not just pay but LENGTH of contract that determines the band. So Frawley gets band one by virtue of a longer contract. On an annual basis he probably isnt top 5 (e.g in 2015).

We will chase a big name. Id be surprised if we landed one. But we will chase one hard.
We have no choice.

I would suggest Frawley is certainly in the top 5 at the Hawks. I actually cant believe you asked the question. Doesn't mean he should be but you pay more to get players from other clubs. And yes the length of the contract matters as well but its a combination. If you gave a guy 200K for 20 years you wouldn't get band one compensation.

And we can chase a big name but if we lose Steven through FA we would be completely mad to chase one through FA. You can get them without FA as with Boyd and Griffin.