What are the reasons behind the lower supporter base?

[samuraisaint]

I live a stone throw from Moorabbin Oval. I've met a heap of St Kilda players everywhere from Southland to Elephant Wheelbarrow to footy clinics.
But although I've always had an awareness of the Saints I always can't quite manage to explain why their membership and crowds are so very low?
Do people from St Kilda to Frankston just not like Football?

Is it purely based on 'Success' I guess Richmond would be perhaps an exception but they have also suffered for a very long time with no success. And they'll double St Kilda supporters anytime anywhere?

Adding to this from 2005 to basically 2011 we had a very good team and a real shot and premierships
And still...still no fans? Is it the area? The history?

On the positive side we’ve survived many lean years and close calls. Moving forward I think this club will always be around…The Dogs & North are definitely behind us in terms of memberships, overall fans and finances. If anyone is going it’s them.

Because we didn't win a premiership in 1997 or 2009 or 2010 (or 1971).

Richmond fans drop off when they're not going well too. This was obvious at the beginning of this season and for half of last year. Remember North were the glamour side of the 1970s, the team of the 90s, and were very decent in the 80s with the Krakouer brothers, Blight, and Barry Cable, usually in the 5 as it was known as then. Having said that, I have been at games in the recent past where I think there were less than 200 North supporters in the ground.

The Bulldogs this year have dwarfed us at games in terms of numbers, but that was definitely due to lack of public transport on the three rail lines that most st Kilda supporters travel on. At Lenny's last home game last year, there would have been lucky to be 500 Buldogs barrackers there.

It comes down to excitement - in 2003/2004 when we were on the rise we got massive support and the same in 2009/2010 - at the moment we are in transition, but the way we are playing at present is pretty exciting, and if AR can continue this the supporters will come.

Surely you are joking blaming the rail line for crowds? And every club drops off when struggling but I wouldn't say Richmond are going great and they have 70k members. Hard to accuse them of being bandwagon supporters with those figures. Our figures are very disappointing no matter what excuses we come up with.

Honest question: do you go to games? Do you have small children? Are you 55 years old plus+ Because if you fall into one of these categories the unreliable rail network is massive put off. It means that people have to undergo a massive hassle just in order to get to a match. It's alright if you are youngish or just go the footy with mates, but otherwise ...
Take last week: with no notice the Frankston line was suddenly interrupted between Mordialloc and Moorabbin (a St Kilda bolthole). At Mordialloc there were no buses waiting. When they did arrive, some time later, I might add, most were local buses - not express - so, despite everyone wanting to go to the footy, we all had to drive around in a bus stopping at railway stations where nobody got off. There as one express bus, which lucky people got on. Many of whom had children under five and some with babes in arms wrapped in St Kilda scarves. The bus was as packed as any I have seen, including subways in Tokyo and Osaka. People everywhere. Once we were all safely on, we were all told to get off the bus - as 'the bus driver was too sick to drive". Direct quote. Cue interminable wait for another bus. This bus stopped at every railway station between Mordi and Moorabbin despite not letting anybody from those stations to actually get on the bus, and one elderly man who dared try to get on, had the bus door closed in his face. IN HIS FACE.

Upon arrival at Moorabbin, the station was as crowded as any I have ever seen and no train waiting. Many had to wait for at least the second train to arrive so as to get on safely - especially if you are old, infirm etc.

Now, after going through all that - don't you think people may think twice before making the decision to go to the footy on a Sunday again. Oh, and by the way - the Frankston line is down again today, so that Metro can clear weeds. What a fantastic service they provide. How lucky we all are!

[plugger66]

I live a stone throw from Moorabbin Oval. I've met a heap of St Kilda players everywhere from Southland to Elephant Wheelbarrow to footy clinics.
But although I've always had an awareness of the Saints I always can't quite manage to explain why their membership and crowds are so very low?
Do people from St Kilda to Frankston just not like Football?

Is it purely based on 'Success' I guess Richmond would be perhaps an exception but they have also suffered for a very long time with no success. And they'll double St Kilda supporters anytime anywhere?

Adding to this from 2005 to basically 2011 we had a very good team and a real shot and premierships
And still...still no fans? Is it the area? The history?

On the positive side we’ve survived many lean years and close calls. Moving forward I think this club will always be around…The Dogs & North are definitely behind us in terms of memberships, overall fans and finances. If anyone is going it’s them.

Because we didn't win a premiership in 1997 or 2009 or 2010 (or 1971).

Richmond fans drop off when they're not going well too. This was obvious at the beginning of this season and for half of last year. Remember North were the glamour side of the 1970s, the team of the 90s, and were very decent in the 80s with the Krakouer brothers, Blight, and Barry Cable, usually in the 5 as it was known as then. Having said that, I have been at games in the recent past where I think there were less than 200 North supporters in the ground.

The Bulldogs this year have dwarfed us at games in terms of numbers, but that was definitely due to lack of public transport on the three rail lines that most st Kilda supporters travel on. At Lenny's last home game last year, there would have been lucky to be 500 Buldogs barrackers there.

It comes down to excitement - in 2003/2004 when we were on the rise we got massive support and the same in 2009/2010 - at the moment we are in transition, but the way we are playing at present is pretty exciting, and if AR can continue this the supporters will come.

Surely you are joking blaming the rail line for crowds? And every club drops off when struggling but I wouldn't say Richmond are going great and they have 70k members. Hard to accuse them of being bandwagon supporters with those figures. Our figures are very disappointing no matter what excuses we come up with.

Honest question: do you go to games? Do you have small children? Are you 55 years old plus+ Because if you fall into one of these categories the unreliable rail network is massive put off. It means that people have to undergo a massive hassle just in order to get to a match. It's alright if you are youngish or just go the footy with mates, but otherwise ...
Take last week: with no notice the Frankston line was suddenly interrupted between Mordialloc and Moorabbin (a St Kilda bolthole). At Mordialloc there were no buses waiting. When they did arrive, some time later, I might add, most were local buses - not express - so, despite everyone wanting to go to the footy, we all had to drive around in a bus stopping at railway stations where nobody got off. There as one express bus, which lucky people got on. Many of whom had children under five and some with babes in arms wrapped in St Kilda scarves. The bus was as packed as any I have seen, including subways in Tokyo and Osaka. People everywhere. Once we were all safely on, we were all told to get off the bus - as 'the bus driver was too sick to drive". Direct quote. Cue interminable wait for another bus.

Upon arrival at Moorabbin, the station was as crowded as any I have ever seen and no train waiting. Many had to wait for at least the second train to arrive so as to get on safely - especially if you are old, infirm etc.

Now, after going through all that - don't you think people may think twice before making the decision to go to the footy on a Sunday again. Oh, and by the way - the Frankston line is down again today, so that Metro can clear weeds. What a fantastic service they provide. How lucky we all are!

I still attend games but not as much as I did when I did have a small child. We hardly missed at all when my daughter was under one until about 12. Now because of other footy commitments and being lazy I probably only attend 8 to 10 games a year from maybe 15-17 previously. And im 53 years of age. I agree the rail network puts a few off. As I said probably no more than 500 IMO just based on previous crowds. There is no big difference in crowds and we are a fraction better than the previous 2 years especially 2 years ago. We were poorer last year than this year and by a bit of a margin.

And im not going to get in to the politics of train services. By the way I have lived on the Frankston train line service for 53 years.

[saint-stu]

Actually we are way behind the dogs and north in members at the moment.

Not true. North are but the Bulldogs are neck and neck unless the Bulldogs have signed up another 5k in the last few weeks before the June 30 cut off. It was 15 the difference before the year ending 2015.

http://infogr.am/your_club_2015_v_2014?src=embed

Look at their website:
http://membership.westernbulldogs.com.au/

They have 35,434 which is 8% more than us. OK they may not be way ahead but to me it's extremely disappointing given that we normally have far more members and I have always considered us a stronger club.

North were apparently close to folding not long ago and now they have over 40k which is more than we ever had, even in our contending years.

I would think that these most kids barrack for whoever their parents barrack for. It's very difficult to attract new supporters now because everyone already has a team. As to why we have less than Collingwood, Essendon and Carlton is due largely to lack of success, especially in the early days. If you were picking a club to barrack for in the first 60 years of the VFL why would you pick the Saints?

I think we should be targeting new migrants. Our population is growing at a decent rate and migrants have no club ties when they come here. I often see them jump on high profile clubs like the pies and the hawks

[samuraisaint]

I live a stone throw from Moorabbin Oval. I've met a heap of St Kilda players everywhere from Southland to Elephant Wheelbarrow to footy clinics.
But although I've always had an awareness of the Saints I always can't quite manage to explain why their membership and crowds are so very low?
Do people from St Kilda to Frankston just not like Football?

Is it purely based on 'Success' I guess Richmond would be perhaps an exception but they have also suffered for a very long time with no success. And they'll double St Kilda supporters anytime anywhere?

Adding to this from 2005 to basically 2011 we had a very good team and a real shot and premierships
And still...still no fans? Is it the area? The history?

On the positive side we’ve survived many lean years and close calls. Moving forward I think this club will always be around…The Dogs & North are definitely behind us in terms of memberships, overall fans and finances. If anyone is going it’s them.

Because we didn't win a premiership in 1997 or 2009 or 2010 (or 1971).

Richmond fans drop off when they're not going well too. This was obvious at the beginning of this season and for half of last year. Remember North were the glamour side of the 1970s, the team of the 90s, and were very decent in the 80s with the Krakouer brothers, Blight, and Barry Cable, usually in the 5 as it was known as then. Having said that, I have been at games in the recent past where I think there were less than 200 North supporters in the ground.

The Bulldogs this year have dwarfed us at games in terms of numbers, but that was definitely due to lack of public transport on the three rail lines that most st Kilda supporters travel on. At Lenny's last home game last year, there would have been lucky to be 500 Buldogs barrackers there.

It comes down to excitement - in 2003/2004 when we were on the rise we got massive support and the same in 2009/2010 - at the moment we are in transition, but the way we are playing at present is pretty exciting, and if AR can continue this the supporters will come.

Surely you are joking blaming the rail line for crowds? And every club drops off when struggling but I wouldn't say Richmond are going great and they have 70k members. Hard to accuse them of being bandwagon supporters with those figures. Our figures are very disappointing no matter what excuses we come up with.

Honest question: do you go to games? Do you have small children? Are you 55 years old plus+ Because if you fall into one of these categories the unreliable rail network is massive put off. It means that people have to undergo a massive hassle just in order to get to a match. It's alright if you are youngish or just go the footy with mates, but otherwise ...
Take last week: with no notice the Frankston line was suddenly interrupted between Mordialloc and Moorabbin (a St Kilda bolthole). At Mordialloc there were no buses waiting. When they did arrive, some time later, I might add, most were local buses - not express - so, despite everyone wanting to go to the footy, we all had to drive around in a bus stopping at railway stations where nobody got off. There as one express bus, which lucky people got on. Many of whom had children under five and some with babes in arms wrapped in St Kilda scarves. The bus was as packed as any I have seen, including subways in Tokyo and Osaka. People everywhere. Once we were all safely on, we were all told to get off the bus - as 'the bus driver was too sick to drive". Direct quote. Cue interminable wait for another bus.

Upon arrival at Moorabbin, the station was as crowded as any I have ever seen and no train waiting. Many had to wait for at least the second train to arrive so as to get on safely - especially if you are old, infirm etc.

Now, after going through all that - don't you think people may think twice before making the decision to go to the footy on a Sunday again. Oh, and by the way - the Frankston line is down again today, so that Metro can clear weeds. What a fantastic service they provide. How lucky we all are!

I still attend games but not as much as I did when I did have a small child. We hardly missed at all when my daughter was under one until about 12. Now because of other footy commitments and being lazy I probably only attend 8 to 10 games a year from maybe 15-17 previously. And im 53 years of age. I agree the rail network puts a few off. As I said probably no more than 500 IMO just based on previous crowds. There is no big difference in crowds and we are a fraction better than the previous 2 years especially 2 years ago. We were poorer last year than this year and by a bit of a margin.

And im not going to get in to the politics of train services. By the way I have lived on the Frankston train line service for 53 years.

By the way, I am not having a dig at you. I am just saying that what I and many other went through last week just to get to a footy game in the city was quite an obstacle, and I am driving in today, but we are at the G, not Docklands.

[Freebird]

Ross Lyon and his boring soccer-like style, kick backwards turn it over lost several members associated with me. 9 of us had reserved seats on ground level wing but we all got bored with the hard to watch game style. 6 of these members (no-more) have broke the habit of going and now watch it on TV. Most are also p1ssed off with the hard run from umps / rich draw for wealthy / the poor paying off edihad...can't compete fairly.

A competition that's not run fairly is not a competition. The rich have an advantage with members and crowds at home games but to give them a draw against the largest drawing teams twice at the best timeslots / days makes clubs like ours insignificant to them. They can't wait until we fall over debt-ridden and the AFL are doing nothing to make it a level playing field.

[saint-stu]

Ross Lyon and his boring soccer-like style, kick backwards turn it over lost several members associated with me. 9 of us had reserved seats on ground level wing but we all got bored with the hard to watch game style. 6 of these members (no-more) have broke the habit of going and now watch it on TV. Most are also p1ssed off with the hard run from umps / rich draw for wealthy / the poor paying off edihad...can't compete fairly.

A competition that's not run fairly is not a competition. The rich have an advantage with members and crowds at home games but to give them a draw against the largest drawing teams twice at the best timeslots / days makes clubs like ours insignificant to them. They can't wait until we fall over debt-ridden and the AFL are doing nothing to make it a level playing field.

The problem with this is that they only one who gets hurt by this is the club. Not the AFL, or Ross Lyon, or the umpires. Even if people don't want to come to games, maybe the 3 game or no games memberships are a good option?

[magnifisaint]

Actually we are way behind the dogs and north in members at the moment.

Not true. North are but the Bulldogs are neck and neck unless the Bulldogs have signed up another 5k in the last few weeks before the June 30 cut off. It was 15 the difference before the year ending 2015.

http://infogr.am/your_club_2015_v_2014?src=embed

Look at their website:
http://membership.westernbulldogs.com.au/

They have 35,434 which is 8% more than us. OK they may not be way ahead but to me it's extremely disappointing given that we normally have far more members and I have always considered us a stronger club.

North were apparently close to folding not long ago and now they have over 40k which is more than we ever had, even in our contending years.

I would think that these most kids barrack for whoever their parents barrack for. It's very difficult to attract new supporters now because everyone already has a team. As to why we have less than Collingwood, Essendon and Carlton is due largely to lack of success, especially in the early days. If you were picking a club to barrack for in the first 60 years of the VFL why would you pick the Saints?

I think we should be targeting new migrants. Our population is growing at a decent rate and migrants have no club ties when they come here. I often see them jump on high profile clubs like the pies and the hawks

Yeah but all our members are human.

[Bunk_Moreland]

32,000 members is a significant achievement considering we come off a sacked coach followed by a wooden spoon.

To get over 30k from that position and considering our history is pretty promising.

Finnis has been on radio stating our latent supporter is only marginally below Richmonds (the fourth of the ssso caled big four clubs), so we are in the middle for support of the Vic clubs.

The admin know this and are building the club for sustained success on and off the field.

The membership will start to rise, I have no doubt, and I also have no doubt, that winning a second flag would boost our membership for the medium to long term.

Our club didn't BS us after 2012 and made it perfectly clear how long it would take to reach finals again. Seems like the club members have bought in.

the club sold hope and are so far delivering on that promise.

this is the only strategy and it should pay dividends.

[plugger66]

32,000 members is a significant achievement considering we come off a sacked coach followed by a wooden spoon.

To get over 30k from that position and considering our history is pretty promising.

Finnis has been on radio stating our latent supporter is only marginally below Richmonds (the fourth of the ssso caled big four clubs), so we are in the middle for support of the Vic clubs.

The admin know this and are building the club for sustained success on and off the field.

The membership will start to rise, I have no doubt, and I also have no doubt, that winning a second flag would boost our membership for the medium to long term.

Our club didn't BS us after 2012 and made it perfectly clear how long it would take to reach finals again. Seems like the club members have bought in.

the club sold hope and are so far delivering on that promise.

this is the only strategy and it should pay dividends.

The only problem is 32k now is probably only 26 to 28K 4 years ago because of all the different category's that can be members now that weren't allowed 5 years ago. I know that applie to all the clubs but whatever way we look at it we are last for memberships and that has now happened two years in row after maybe never happening previously.

[spert]

We are in an era of quick fixes, and people just want success NOW and won't bother staying around in the hope things get better. So many Saints I talk to who went along for the finals ride in recent years seem to have dropped off after seeing no result for those GFs. Richmond supporters are a fair-weather lot and they jumped ship like rats when Richmond were struggling along, now they have all gone out and bought new beanies and scarves to wear around the streets and rant away on Facebook about the Tiges...yuk
We just need to win games basically, be competitive, push for the final 8 and people will come back.

[plugger66]

We are in an era of quick fixes, and people just want success NOW and won't bother staying around in the hope things get better. So many Saints I talk to who went along for the finals ride in recent years seem to have dropped off after seeing no result for those GFs. Richmond supporters are a fair-weather lot and they jumped ship like rats when Richmond were struggling along, now they have all gone out and bought new beanies and scarves to wear around the streets and rant away on Facebook about the Tiges...yuk
We just need to win games basically, be competitive, push for the final 8 and people will come back.

Tigers haven't finished higher than 8th for about 10 years. Hardly jumping on a bandwagon.

[saint-stu]

32,000 members is a significant achievement considering we come off a sacked coach followed by a wooden spoon.

To get over 30k from that position and considering our history is pretty promising.

Finnis has been on radio stating our latent supporter is only marginally below Richmonds (the fourth of the ssso caled big four clubs), so we are in the middle for support of the Vic clubs.

Fair enough, but why are we below Melbourne of all clubs? North I can understand as they've been playing finals. Bulldogs have had some hype about them, although so have we this year. We are currently the bottom Victorian club for membership this year.

[saint-stu]

Yeah but all our members are human.

Immigrants. Well done.

[magnifisaint]

Yeah but all our members are human.

Immigrants. Well done.

What're you talking about?

I was referring to the pet memberships that the Bulldogs must have sold.

What's that got to do with immigrants?

[stjay]

I think we should be targeting new migrants. Our population is growing at a decent rate and migrants have no club ties when they come here. I often see them jump on high profile clubs like the pies and the hawks

Not sure of the details but I have heard Collingwood provides new immigrants with 2 free tickets each.
Smart huh?

[saint-stu]

I think we should be targeting new migrants. Our population is growing at a decent rate and migrants have no club ties when they come here. I often see them jump on high profile clubs like the pies and the hawks

Not sure of the details but I have heard Collingwood provides new immigrants with 2 free tickets each.
Smart huh?

Yes, we should be doing that.

[philtee]

Failure to convert occasional supporters during "successful" years 2006 to 2011.
Damage to brand during "St Kilda schoolgirl" saga etc.
Poor promotion of 3-match Membership, until now. Hawks etc drive this big-time.
Docklands stadium vs MCG for infrequent visitors.

[Con Gorozidis]

Why would anyone go for Liverpool if they want success?

Liverpool has one of the best records in the history of top-level football. The club has accumulated more top-flight wins than any other English team.

18 time Premiership winner

Cups
FA Cup: 7
1964–65, 1973–74, 1985–86, 1988–89, 1991–92, 2000–01, 2005–06
League Cup: 8
1980–81, 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84, 1994–95, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2011–12
FA Charity/Community Shield: 15
1964*, 1965*, 1966, 1974*, 1976, 1977*, 1979, 1980, 1982, 1986*, 1988, 1989, 1990*, 2001, 2006 (* shared)
Super Cup: 1
1985–86
European
European Cup/UEFA Champions League: 5
1976–77, 1977–78, 1980–81, 1983–84, 2004–05
UEFA Cup: 3
1972–73, 1975–76, 2000–01
UEFA Super Cup: 3
1977, 2001, 2005

[matrix]

being interstate i wouldnt know too much about membership numbers and reasons etc

but if we arent winning games i reckon people just dont renew the membership
if we arent winning people wont go to the game
if they wont go to the game they prob havent bought a membership

it would be interesting to see some stats (if the are collected)
how many long term members didnt renew after GF playing era?
how many drop on and off with success?
especially with the melb people

i reckon youd find that most interstate/internationals would stay on no matter the results/ladder position/rebuild stage etc

im a driver too
i could catch a free train into footy here in sa but still choose to drive
ill always drive
last time i caught a train was in melb around the 09 grannie week

hopefully once the moorabbin thing kicks off a few locals jump back on board and we can really promote the club well and get all the old schoolers back on that used to stand out on the hill/enclosure

[Locals322]

Are we officially going back to Moorabbin on a full time basis...and what happens to the Investment in Seaford. I am not sure I belive the huge lying dorment supporter base tbh..equal to Richmond in supporters in terms latency so why didn't they come in 10-11 then? Not I don't believe that.

I think the Dogs just have more people...there is a heap more people out there. Feel like the young team at the moment is really going places if sucess breeds new fans now is about as good a time as ever to get on.

Did anyone hear Viney or something this morning on SEN talking about how the Junction Oval is the heart and soul of St Kilda? If we can only draw 20k for some games why not make them profitable and play them in the heart land?

[Bunk_Moreland]

Are we officially going back to Moorabbin on a full time basis...and what happens to the Investment in Seaford. I am not sure I belive the huge lying dorment supporter base tbh..equal to Richmond in supporters in terms latency so why didn't they come in 10-11 then? Not I don't believe that.

I think the Dogs just have more people...there is a heap more people out there. Feel like the young team at the moment is really going places if sucess breeds new fans now is about as good a time as ever to get on.

Did anyone hear Viney or something this morning on SEN talking about how the Junction Oval is the heart and soul of St Kilda? If we can only draw 20k for some games why not make them profitable and play them in the heart land?

Take it up with Matt Finnis then. Dont care if you believe it or not to be frank

[Austinnn]

Why would anyone go for Liverpool if they want success?

I'll bite.

Because they were very successful. A lot of kids following their families into LFC. They are still one of the biggest clubs in the world, were until recently a lock in for a top 4 position and despite their lack of premier league titles, never fade away and lose hope ("accept their position") like bitter fans of other clubs hope they might. Every year looks like ready for LFC to win, and as recently as two seasons ago, they took their challenge for the title into the final 3 games. It's a club with a lot of hope, even if the end result isn't quite as devastating as it was pre-premier league.

Man U fans have just started this journey themselves, and they are welcome to it. Still a hell of a lot better than supporting a club that is expected never to challenge, and never does.

Weird that fans of most of the clubs in England bar maybe 5 or 6 accept that their club will never ever win the PL and still are happy to watch Premier League footy. Imagine if it was still like that in the AFL.

[Locals322]

We've been waiting for that huge dormant supporter base to show up for 40 years now. They must be waiting for something like a finals run or grand final. Oh wait.

[kalsaint]

I live a stone throw from Moorabbin Oval. I've met a heap of St Kilda players everywhere from Southland to Elephant Wheelbarrow to footy clinics.
But although I've always had an awareness of the Saints I always can't quite manage to explain why their membership and crowds are so very low?
Do people from St Kilda to Frankston just not like Football?

Is it purely based on 'Success' I guess Richmond would be perhaps an exception but they have also suffered for a very long time with no success. And they'll double St Kilda supporters anytime anywhere?

Adding to this from 2005 to basically 2011 we had a very good team and a real shot and premierships
And still...still no fans? Is it the area? The history?

On the positive side we’ve survived many lean years and close calls. Moving forward I think this club will always be around…The Dogs & North are definitely behind us in terms of memberships, overall fans and finances. If anyone is going it’s them.

We did have over 40000 members one year (actually beat Carlscum that year) albeit we were quite competitive and successful. I think the club has moved on and have an engagement approach with the members now. This will help going forward when the club does start to perform better.

Another worrying option is the likelihood that the AFL will bring in zoning. I would say soccer has a bigger following and bearing on some areas of the Melbourne population than previously, when zoning was prominent. This might not be favourable for areas like Seaford Frankston etc.

[Sainter_Dad]

TL;DR

Truth be told we have a lot of Supporters - but not a lot of Members

There are a lot of St Kilda barrackers in the Frankston/Carrum Downs/Seaford area - just not a lot of paid up members.