Radical Trade Option

[kosifantutti]

interesting...I remember watching Harves when I lived in Melbourne.
In all of our games where we got towelled up, he was getting huge numbers, but half of his kicks went over a team-mate's head, or to an opponent.
I remember a game against Carlscum at Arctic Park; we lost by at least 10 goals. Harves got 38 kicks or something. At least half were wasted and did not go to advantage; it was incredibly depressing.

....

Harvey only played in three losses against Carlton at Waverley. The margins were 26, 36 and 22 points. Which of those was "at least 10 goals"? He didn't come close to 38 kicks in any of them.

[stjay]

If we are going to trade "quality" it won't be Jack Steven.
My guess would be Jack Newnes, which would hurt but if it was part of a Bennell trade I think we'd settle for it.

[citywest]

I know this suggestion will attract a lot of critical feedback, but hey, we need to consider all possible options in order to improve our list, and this includes thinking outside the square so to speak....

My proposal is to trade Jack Stevens....

The reasons are straight-forward - of all of the midfielders in the St Kilda line-up, Jack Stevens is by far the most wasteful in terms of disposal, not unlike Clint Jones. When he gets the ball, and sure he gets plenty of them, he makes far too many skill errors and there were at least 2 instances in the last game against Geelong where his poor decision making resulted in turnovers that cost us goals. If the Saints are going to continue to improve and be in contention in the next couple of years, they can't afford to do that.

At the start of season 2016 Stevens will be 26 and arguably will be close to his peak in terms of fitness and skills. His currency on the trade table will be as high as it will ever get. In the meantime, St Kilda have a very good crop of young up and coming midfielders who have greater talent than Stevens - Armitage, Billings, Lonie, Sinclair, Ross, Minchington, Templeton, all possessing better disposal skills.

OK, so the club has signed him up to a 5 year contract, but we all know that is never an impediment to player transfers.

Now, I would like more talented observers than me to look at the possibilities of a likely trade for Stevens....taking into account improvements to our list and the clubs that are short of onballers.

You are going to cop a pasting. How dare you think outside the square?

[skeptic]

I think Wellard Saint makes a point but pbly not the one he intended...

Rob Harvey is pbly the best player I've ever seen by a long way, with the exception of perhaps Plugger and Roo. But surely most would agree that 97-98, 04/05, and 08 were pbly his best seasons.

I think there's a reasonable argument to be made that he looked better, and played better when we were contenders and he had the support around him.

Alternatively, you had seasons in the early 2000s, one game around then Vs Hawthorn where we lost by nearly 15 goals and with Burke and Harvey combining for something ridiculous like 90 possessions between them... but in a team where they got smashed, they simply didn't look that effective. I don't think the Hawks even thought to bother manning up on them we were so bad.

Again, I don't think we can make a call on how good Steven really is, and what he's worth without having the depth around him.

[SMS]

Theory I understand but practically and reality wise not a chance un hell. Steven is a gun. Disposal questionable
at times but so is dangerfield. His speed and spread and inside use is elite.
Apart from that to get rid of senior player in hope of draft talent would be terrible for morale and culture. It could kill this era in its tracks alone

We gave kosi his 200th, we give our players great send offs and look after em better than most. We have to. We arent a big club but we have done a lot of right things lately. You need to understand how important mateship in the group is. It almost equals to contested ball and pressure acts which atm we are fantastic in. Gee wonder why?

So in conclusion a trade isnt just a trade its more than that. This isnt a computer game.

[dragit]

I think Wellard Saint makes a point but pbly not the one he intended...

Rob Harvey is pbly the best player I've ever seen by a long way, with the exception of perhaps Plugger and Roo. But surely most would agree that 97-98, 04/05, and 08 were pbly his best seasons.

I think there's a reasonable argument to be made that he looked better, and played better when we were contenders and he had the support around him.

Alternatively, you had seasons in the early 2000s, one game around then Vs Hawthorn where we lost by nearly 15 goals and with Burke and Harvey combining for something ridiculous like 90 possessions between them... but in a team where they got smashed, they simply didn't look that effective. I don't think the Hawks even thought to bother manning up on them we were so bad.

Again, I don't think we can make a call on how good Steven really is, and what he's worth without having the depth around him.

Chris Judd looked better in a top 4 side as does Luke Hodge, Dal Santo same as every other player, what's the point? Surely that is just common sense?

"Jack Steven is like Robert Harvey, therefor we should trade him" that is just demented, on a few levels.

[Con Gorozidis]

Everyone is theoretically tradeable. But its a waste of time saying trade this bloke or trade that bloke unless you tell us what for. How would we get something better for it? If it was a straight swap for Treloar then yes ok. But Just saying trade someone isnt that helpful unless you tell us what for. Jack is a bloody good player.

[Armoooo]

Steven can not be traded. He is already an a grader on the verge of being elite. Give him some more support and he can take the next step.

[skeptic]

I think Wellard Saint makes a point but pbly not the one he intended...

Rob Harvey is pbly the best player I've ever seen by a long way, with the exception of perhaps Plugger and Roo. But surely most would agree that 97-98, 04/05, and 08 were pbly his best seasons.

I think there's a reasonable argument to be made that he looked better, and played better when we were contenders and he had the support around him.

Alternatively, you had seasons in the early 2000s, one game around then Vs Hawthorn where we lost by nearly 15 goals and with Burke and Harvey combining for something ridiculous like 90 possessions between them... but in a team where they got smashed, they simply didn't look that effective. I don't think the Hawks even thought to bother manning up on them we were so bad.

Again, I don't think we can make a call on how good Steven really is, and what he's worth without having the depth around him.

Chris Judd looked better in a top 4 side as does Luke Hodge, Dal Santo same as every other player, what's the point? Surely that is just common sense?

"Jack Steven is like Robert Harvey, therefor we should trade him" that is just demented, on a few levels.

Am a bit miffed at your point here Dragit - I'm not advocating that we trade him at all, in fact I'm saying it would be a bad decision because you don't/won't konw his actual worth and we don't know how good he can be

And I don't think anyone at all is suggesting what you have said in the bottom line

[dragit]

I think Wellard Saint makes a point but pbly not the one he intended...

Rob Harvey is pbly the best player I've ever seen by a long way, with the exception of perhaps Plugger and Roo. But surely most would agree that 97-98, 04/05, and 08 were pbly his best seasons.

I think there's a reasonable argument to be made that he looked better, and played better when we were contenders and he had the support around him.

Alternatively, you had seasons in the early 2000s, one game around then Vs Hawthorn where we lost by nearly 15 goals and with Burke and Harvey combining for something ridiculous like 90 possessions between them... but in a team where they got smashed, they simply didn't look that effective. I don't think the Hawks even thought to bother manning up on them we were so bad.

Again, I don't think we can make a call on how good Steven really is, and what he's worth without having the depth around him.

Chris Judd looked better in a top 4 side as does Luke Hodge, Dal Santo same as every other player, what's the point? Surely that is just common sense?

"Jack Steven is like Robert Harvey, therefor we should trade him" that is just demented, on a few levels.

Am a bit miffed at your point here Dragit - I'm not advocating that we trade him at all, in fact I'm saying it would be a bad decision because you don't/won't konw his actual worth and we don't know how good he can be

And I don't think anyone at all is suggesting what you have said in the bottom line

Pretty sure that is what Wellard is saying…

Not sure what your point is about players looking better when surrounded by good players is? That would be expected and not a surprise surely?

[skeptic]

I think Wellard is looking at it more from a perspective of Steven being the midfielder we could most afford to lose, because of his disposal, and possbily get something better back

My perspective is that we wouldn't get value for him

Anyway, I don't actually think we're arguing or even disagreeing to be honest so I'll leave that there

[matrix]

i stopped reading at the third line

are you sure you know what number he is?

long term contract
but lets trade him

great idea

[WellardSaint]

sick of poor disposal from players like Steven, Robbo (look at him today against the Swines)
Only players to be trusted are Monty, Savage, Billings, Fisher, and maybe one or two others at the most.
The rest are s*** with their disposal and no wonder Brucey stopped kicking goals, because he gets s*** delivery.

[seano1]

theres no such thing as a sure thing......all are up for trade start with umpires theres sure to be better ones umpiring the Shepparton thirds

[dragit]

Everyone is theoretically tradeable. But its a waste of time saying trade this bloke or trade that bloke unless you tell us what for. How would we get something better for it? If it was a straight swap for Treloar then yes ok. But Just saying trade someone isnt that helpful unless you tell us what for. Jack is a bloody good player.

This is exactly right, the likelihood of someone offering enough for us to give up a top 3 player is next to nil… we might as well include a unicorn riding a rainbow in the trade scenario.

[Sanctorum]

Just watched Jack Steven (no "s") run into an open goal and spray his kick, and read Richo's lips in the coach's box, saying: "that's it, trade Jack Steven"!! That's what I like about Richo, he doesn't swear, retains his calm exterior....even when the Saints get belted by close to 100 points.

[Austinnn]

Theory I understand but practically and reality wise not a chance un hell. Steven is a gun. Disposal questionable
at times but so is dangerfield. His speed and spread and inside use is elite.
Apart from that to get rid of senior player in hope of draft talent would be terrible for morale and culture. It could kill this era in its tracks alone

We gave kosi his 200th, we give our players great send offs and look after em better than most. We have to. We arent a big club but we have done a lot of right things lately. You need to understand how important mateship in the group is. It almost equals to contested ball and pressure acts which atm we are fantastic in. Gee wonder why?

So in conclusion a trade isnt just a trade its more than that. This isnt a computer game.

+1

[Austinnn]

Everyone is theoretically tradeable. But its a waste of time saying trade this bloke or trade that bloke unless you tell us what for. How would we get something better for it? If it was a straight swap for Treloar then yes ok. But Just saying trade someone isnt that helpful unless you tell us what for. Jack is a bloody good player.

+1

[jamesmc]

I remember watching Harves… half of his kicks went over a team-mate's head, or to an opponent.

I think you have dementia, cause this is a ridiculous thing to suggest.

I was sitting on the wing for that Carlton game, and one in particular, Loewe was 30 metres up from Harves, and 10 m in front of his opponent. Ball went 40m to Loewe's opponent.
That sort of thing happened 6 times out of 10.
You are deluded and biased. I am being realistic.

You are not being realistic, but you are making a complete arse of yourself.

Seriously, plucking out one kick in his 100,000 and then saying that this happened 6 out of 10 times?

Quit while you are behind.

Harvs was brilliant in every way , except disposal by foot. He could however hit a target from 8 metres only. No one could argue otherwise.

I believe he was left untagged late in his career as opposition coaches were sure he would turn it over by foot more times than not.

[Teflon]

I don't think Jack Steven should be traded but I agree with whoever said he should not be our no 1 mid - at this level he sims is not elite and you preferably want 1, 2 (3 would be lovely), to be elite
In my ideal midfield Steven/Armo batting 4&5 in rotations
Let's be honest compare these to
Hayes , Dal, Goddard???.... be objective and you see a fair class gap
We haven't enough game breaking class - that simple

[skeptic]

Harves' disposal was not sublime but he was consistent and reliable I always thought.

Good kicking to a lead

I certainly don't think it was a liability or even a concern in that sense

[Con Gorozidis]

I don't think Jack Steven should be traded but I agree with whoever said he should not be our no 1 mid - at this level he sims is not elite and you preferably want 1, 2 (3 would be lovely), to be elite
In my ideal midfield Steven/Armo batting 4&5 in rotations
Let's be honest compare these to
Hayes , Dal, Goddard???.... be objective and you see a fair class gap
We haven't enough game breaking class - that simple

Agree. Jack needs support. Rather than trade him - lets get in someone who can help him. He has to do everything by himself a lot of the time. Sometimes he has to handball to himself. We need an oustide runner who can go with him and provide support.

[plugger66]

I don't think Jack Steven should be traded but I agree with whoever said he should not be our no 1 mid - at this level he sims is not elite and you preferably want 1, 2 (3 would be lovely), to be elite
In my ideal midfield Steven/Armo batting 4&5 in rotations
Let's be honest compare these to
Hayes , Dal, Goddard???.... be objective and you see a fair class gap
We haven't enough game breaking class - that simple

Agree. Jack needs support. Rather than trade him - lets get in someone who can help him. He has to do everything by himself a lot of the time. Sometimes he has to handball to himself. We need an oustide runner who can go with him and provide support.

Totally agree.

[wayne temme]

I agree. His disposal is terrible.2 goals resulted from his poor disposal last week.You are correct Spend all summer trying to hit a target. And should take another six team mates out for target practice with him.
And you can send T Hickey on his way.

[plugger66]

I agree. His disposal is terrible.2 goals resulted from his poor disposal last week.You are correct Spend all summer trying to hit a target. And should take another six team mates out for target practice with him.
And you can send T Hickey on his way.

Really. Nice second post though.