Engine Rooms how does ours compare

[robsaint]

If we want to be in the top 8 you need a good engine room. Compare ours to those in the top 5.


Hawthorn
Lewis
Mitchell
Hodge
Burgoyne
Smith
Shields

Westcoast
Priddis
Masten
Shuey
Ellis
Gaff

Sydney
Kennedy
Hannebery
Parker
Jack
Mitchell
Heeney


Freemantle
Fyfe
Mane
Barlow
Mundy
Neale
Pearce


Richmond
Cotchin
Martin
De ledio
Edwards
Ellis
Conca


Stkilda
Steven
Armo
Montagna
Dunstan
Newnes
Weller
Ross

[Jacks Back]

Apart from our top 3 on your list the rest are only starting out their AFL journeys while those listed in those other teams have mostly been around playing together for a long while. A few more years together and you never know.

[spert]

Sorry, ours doesn't rate at all in my book, and right now is a bunch of GOPs with Armo doing well early but fading away as the season went on, when really he is at the age and experience level where he should have kept more momentum up later in the season, and he is probably our best midfielder, with Steven seeming to be more of an outside receiver this season along with Monty- getting possessions but having little effect in too many games. Dunstan and Ross need a big season next year, and seem to have good footy smarts, but needs to get more of the ball, and work on the defensive side, same for Newnes.

The lack of quality in the midfield is the big headache for Richo and co. I think the most influential midfielder in the comp is Mitchell at the Hawks, who again took his game to another level when it was really needed, but if he and Hodge have a lesser season next year, then the Hawks won't get the flag and that's how important those two are to that team. I reckon Richmond's midfield are skilled confidence players and front runners who can do damage, but disappear too easy when the pressure is on. Freo mids are pretty strong and stronger with a fit Fyfe, WCE are similar, but seem a bit one-paced, and as we saw in the finals, once the game plan was covered and the ball was moved quickly against them, they got lost pretty easily.

[St Chris]

Engine rooms are judged on their work around the stoppages, and our clearance stats say our's is really poor.

Armo was ranked 13 in the league for average clearances, which is a good result.

Next best was Jack Steven at 55, then Joey at 77, and Seb Ross at 94.

As a club, we were 17th in the league for total clearances, and 16th for clearance differentials.

We need a pretty serious injection into the engine room to catch up with those lists in the OP.

[SainterK]

I think it needs more grunt, I prefer jack with more creative licence

[robsaint]

Thanks for the feedback. I was thinking the same that we need to reallv improve our engine room so giving up pick 5 for me is not an option. We need a good engine room to be a good side. I releaves pressure on your backs and are able to provide good supply to the forwards. Not saying we don't need good forwards and backs. Just saying we need to focus on the mids first.

[spert]

Thanks for the feedback. I was thinking the same that we need to reallv improve our engine room so giving up pick 5 for me is not an option. We need a good engine room to be a good side. I releaves pressure on your backs and are able to provide good supply to the forwards. Not saying we don't need good forwards and backs. Just saying we need to focus on the mids first.

Yeah- the backline was overworked this season due to lack of defensive work upfield, and the mids just didn't hold the ball up or put enough pressure on opposition ball carriers coming from HB thru midfield, and let their opponents run out the back door too easy to set up the loose player..transitions were too easy and resulting in opposition goals, and of course the clearance work was poor. Much work to do over summer for Richo.

[ace]

We have been doing our bit to prevent global warming.
Our engine room barely produces any green house gases.
Other clubs have not been making similar sacrifices.

[Con Gorozidis]

One of the worst in the comp. Miles off it.

17th in clearances
17h in centre clearances
16th in stoppages

The Hawks, Norf, Freo and WC are ranked number 1-4 in these areas.

We also lack pace and kicking ability. Our midfield as a unit is very poor.

Individually our players are all ok - but as a midfield unit - we are very poor. Need to get the balance right.
I still dont know if we can play Armo, Ross and Dunstan in the same side and be effective.

[bigred]

fkn terrible.

We need someone that can get the pill, burst and then deliver it lace out.

We need pick 5.

[longtimesaint]

I think Billings and possibly Sinclair will spend time in the midfield next year.

[bigred]

They both need tank, strength, grunt....

Probably 2 preseasons away really.

Billings would get absolutely destroyed atm.

[Con Gorozidis]

fkn terrible.

We need someone that can get the pill, burst and then deliver it lace out.

We need pick 5.

tend to agree.

Give me Oliver, Mathierson or Milera. We have Dunstan, Armo and Ross who can get their hands on it in tight and are strong bodied but then they usually just go backwards or sideways and leave Jack to do the rest against 5 tacklers. We need a bloke who can support Jack and get us out of traffic. Someone with toe, skill and awareness.

[spert]

While we obviously lack midfield class, some of the work around stoppages and clearances comes down to coaching too, not sure if our midfield coach really has a handle on it, regardless of how well he is regarded as a future senior coach.

[bigred]

Pick five gives us best opportunity of getting that mid.

It just does.

Carlisle will not fix this glaring problem.

[fugazi]

A fit Freeman might help

[Con Gorozidis]

I like this kid with our pick 24

http://www.zerohanger.com/2015-afl-draf ... nner-2615/

[the dome]

Pick five gives us best opportunity of getting that mid.

It just does.
Carlisle will not fix this glaring problem.

.

Seconded!
Keep the focus on the mid-field.

[To the top]

I go about the exercise in a slightly different way by identifying the players who must contribute to team performance which has the Club challenging consistently for the premiership (because you have to be up there on a consistent basis to succeed).

So we start with the recent high Draft picks in Billings, Dunstan, Acres, Mc Cartin and Goddard - plus Lonie who we hope is a "steal" at where he was drafted.

To them we add (problematic now) the Number 5 Draft pick this year - plus Freeman who was a first round pick for Collingwood.

So that gives us 8 players we identify and require.

To them we add the likes of Armitage, Steven and Bruce, so we are half way to 22.

Then we concede that we need 2 Rucks to establish a competitive edge (and to feed the mids at stoppages, which is required) so we add Hickey and Longer.

Then we add Gilbert (still with some years ahead if him and his move to the mid-field late in 2015 is indicative bringing some size and weight around the stoppages), Roberton and Newnes.

So we are up to 16 of 22.

For 2016 at least we add Riewoldt, Fisher, Montagna and Dempster.

So we are up to 20, representing approximately 50% of our List.

From the remainder 50% of the List we look for hands to go up - including particularly composure and delivery of the ball which gives Webster a chance.

What we do then is find positions for those identified - ask the question of performance and impact from those positions and then fill the holes - which is where I see (initially) Carlisle coming in.

The overall summary is that the win/loss improvement in 2015 flattered because of the "seeded" fixture programming the AFL now employs.

The first step forward is to dominate the similarly "seeded" opposition - and genuinely pressure those bracketed above us in the seedings - including grabbing some wins against the likes of Hawthorn in our once a year match against them (given current seedings).

So we are a work in progress and not yet half way there (but getting closer), trying to identify 22 players who can make the Club genuinely competitive over a period of years - and we then build reserves also capable of doing the job as opportunity presents including by pressuring the nominal 22.

The pressure is on the "bottom half" of our List - and hopefully a couple will put their hands up hastening the improvement in results.

Indicative, along with wins, will be the Brownlow votes the Club receives because that is a measure of players who can contribute to and influence results.

Those capable of being in the best 3 players on the ground.

So we have to double our Brownlow vote count, which is indicative of being half way there.

When you drill down on mids, there are Billings, Dunstan, Acres, (perhaps) Lonie, Freeman, Number 5, Armitage, Steven, Gilbert and Newnes.

Some still need to build to having the influence we trust they will have - but they are the names we rely on currently.

And our Rucks need to give them first opportunity consistently - hence 2 of them.

[Gordo']

If we want to be in the top 8 you need a good engine room. Compare ours to those in the top 5.


Hawthorn
Lewis - aging
Mitchell - aging
Hodge - aging
Burgoyne - aging
Smith - could be a drummer?
Shields - drummer.

Westcoast
Priddis
Masten - drummer with stupid tatts and beard.
Shuey
Ellis - drummer
Gaff
where's yeo mate? i'd love to have stopped his flight at moorabbin airport.

Sydney
Kennedy
Hannebery
Parker
Jack
Mitchell
Heeney - how can we get this dude to us?


Freemantle
Fyfe
Mane - mayne?
Barlow - pedestrian
Mundy - aging
Neale
Pearce - drummer


Richmond
Cotchin - could be a closet drummer?
Martin - not a drummer.
De ledio - drummer
Edwards
Ellis
Conca - more like conked out this year.... went backwards a bit.


Stkilda
Steven - not a dud dude.
Armo - still under rated ffs.
Montagna - getting on
Dunstan
Newnes
Weller - as good tagger as any and now winning his own footy too.
Ross - here's hoping

great thread mate!

i'd throw in some of gilbo, sinclair, lonie, webster, acres, freeman, o'meara, billings and maybe even the minch dude.

ffs why all the doom and gloom from the punters? looking at those lists, we aren't as far behind as i thought.....a combination of age and or drummers and or sheer flowering ordinariness means the bar isn't set as high as i thought.

[Goose is king]

It's shows how important pick 5 could be. I hope Jake is prepared to walk into the PSD

[ripplug66]

It's shows how important pick 5 could be. I hope Jake is prepared to walk into the PSD

I don't think that has any hope. I think like most players he wants to give something back to his previous club. A deal will be done with a club, hopefully ours. And yep our midfield is poor but so is our FB or CHB. Also Carlisle is a player we know will play 160 games baring injury. The player we take at pick 5 may play 50 or 250.

[samoht]

I don't think that has any hope. I think like most players he wants to give something back to his previous club. A deal will be done with a club, hopefully ours. And yep our midfield is poor but so is our FB or CHB. Also Carlisle is a player we know will play 160 games baring injury. The player we take at pick 5 may play 50 or 250.

Carlisle's knee tendonitis is a concern - he even mentioned it in his interview - how it's restricted him in some games - and it's certainly not going to improve with time.
His best football is probably behind him?

We need someone like Milera Mark2 and another good, skillful midfielder - to help keep the ball forward of centre 60% of the time (it's the other way around at the moment) - to put pressure on the opposition backlines for a change and not worry about ours as much. More vroom in the engine room - is what we need!

[ripplug66]

I don't think that has any hope. I think like most players he wants to give something back to his previous club. A deal will be done with a club, hopefully ours. And yep our midfield is poor but so is our FB or CHB. Also Carlisle is a player we know will play 160 games baring injury. The player we take at pick 5 may play 50 or 250.

Carlisle's knee tendonitis is a concern - he even mentioned it in his interview - how it's restricted him in some games - and it's certainly not going to improve with time.
His best football is probably behind him?

We need Milera Mark2 and another good, skillful midfielder - to keep the ball forward of centre 60% of the time (it's the other way around at the moment) - to put pressure on the opposition backlines for a change and not worry about ours as much. More vroom in the engine room - is what we need!

Yep we need at least 8 players before we play finals. I doubting the club think the best footy is behind Carlisle if they are offering pick 5. If we miss him we take someone else but I think the club know this a bloody good opportunity to get a potentially very good player. And I don't think pressure in the forward line is our issue. matter of fact we were nearly the best pressuring side in the AFL. Mids is certainly an issue and I have always wanted mids but unlike some I don't value draft picks that much that I would pass up on a proven KPP.

[samoht]

We drafted young key position players last draft, plug66 - time for some young midfielders. We missed out on Petracca and Brayshaw - last year. It's time to catch up now.