Saintsational Fan Forum - A passionate community of St Kilda Football Club fans discussing news, history, players, trade rumours, results, AFL stats and more.
SaintPav wrote:Jake is a massive flog and I don't buy his public relations manufactured apology.
Club should have reneged on the deal. They had a good case.
If they reneg he is still our player so we play one short and it costs us maybe 3 million dollars. That would be complete madness. Do all other Saints players also lose a contract for using drugs because if that's the case we could lose a few more?
I have checked with our legal counsel and I was told by two different people including a contract law expert that the club could have definitely pulled out.
He's still a flog but I guess he's our flog now.
I checked with no one but on SEN today they said he was our player and now under contract. There is no cooling off period once the papers are lodged. And what he did wouldn't null and void any contract.
Like player movement you could probably go to court and maybe win but clubs just don't do it because there is a handshake agreement. The club was never going to sack him over that.
Last edited by ripplug66 on Thu 22 Oct 2015 4:19pm, edited 1 time in total.
Young people make errors of judgement - the whole point of education is to learn from your mistakes. From all accounts Jake didn't have the easiest upbringing so maybe he didn't have a good mentor or role model around. The club he came from certainly let him down a bit. Give him the opportunity to learn from his mistake and to redeem himself. I would much rather what he did compared to a violent act or a disrespectful act towards a woman.
Sometimes it takes a big wake up call to turn things around.
Welcome to the Saints Jake. Hope you finish top 10 in the B&F and we rise a few places on the ladder - which I didn't think we would do this year.
Too late now. Jake is a Saint so I will back him (within reason) but can all you club apologists and spin merchants at least give me 12 months where you dont regurgitate the club party line BS about recruiting "character"?
I have always said it was a massive wank. Thanks.
(Speaking of 'party line'...... double entendre right there... )
Last edited by Con Gorozidis on Thu 22 Oct 2015 4:33pm, edited 2 times in total.
Con Gorozidis wrote:Too late now. Jake is a Saint so I will back him (within reason) but can all you club apologists and spin merchants at least give me 12 months where you dont spin the club PR propaganda BS about recruting 'character"?
I have always said it was a massive wank. Thanks.
Having met most of the new guys there is a definite nice guy thing going on down there. I wish they would pick %$#@s that play well myself.
Con Gorozidis wrote:Too late now. Jake is a Saint so I will back him (within reason) but can all you club apologists and spin merchants at least give me 12 months where you dont spin the club PR propaganda BS about recruting 'character"?
I have always said it was a massive wank. Thanks.
Having met most of the new guys there is a definite nice guy thing going on down there. I wish they would pick %$#@s that play well myself.
Yep - I dont care if we pick some goody two shoes who wants to be a UN ambassador from a 'great family' - just get me someone who can f*cking kick straight
Some positives in all this mess...
Not one sponsor has contacted the club in a negative way, in fact a couple have responded in the positive way our club has responded immediately.
Media have been strong in the way our club and players have responded to the incident. Talk of the building of a strong culture and the players being absolutely furious.
And whether you like it or not if our wonderful club does win a flag in the next 5 years it's a pretty good bet J.Carlisle will be in the team.
Linton Lodger wrote:Shite, can some people on here get a grip! I'm glad some posters are not making decisions at the Club (and I'm glad I don't work for them)!
Do you honestly think that Carlisle would distribute video of himself snorting an illicit substance? Looks like a piss take on the Bennell incident to be frank. I would suggest that the white powder is icing sugar or good 'ol Ajax. Given how excitable the Yanks are about narcotics, they would have arrested him in a nanosecond if it were a naughty substance.
At worst we're dealing with a joke and I couldn't really give a toss. Yeah its a bit dumb on his behalf, given the complete disregard for the privacy of anyone in elite sports. However, on a more serious note its indicative of the mainstream media's pathetic descent into the peddling of shallow gossip.
He'd have been dumber to snort Ajax than cocaine.
And I think in the USA cocaine would be at least as easy to source.
Anyway, I hope our boys get around him and show him support, maybe they can take him out with them for a pre Xmas drink or something.
Carlisle knew of the video's existence when he signed with the club and yet agreed to a separate and generous marketing deal under the AFL's additional services allowance that falls outside the salary cap.
What a duplicitous act from a guy towards his new club. Great way to treat the club slippery Jake the Snake. Would have had a thousand times more respect if you had the balls to tell us about the video, risking your transfer for sure but also giving us much more leverage with Essendon. That is what will have pissed ST Kilda hierarchy off the most. On damn thin ice now Snakey Jake. Better not put so much as toe wrong. Oh and if you're thrown forward, put on a big s***-eating grin and act like you could have wished for anything better. Slippery customer this one. May have shed his black and red skin for one with more white but need to keep a close eye on him.
tony74 wrote:Some positives in all this mess...
Not one sponsor has contacted the club in a negative way, in fact a couple have responded in the positive way our club has responded immediately.
Media have been strong in the way our club and players have responded to the incident. Talk of the building of a strong culture and the players being absolutely furious.
And whether you like it or not if our wonderful club does win a flag in the next 5 years it's a pretty good bet J.Carlisle will be in the team.
He can do a line off the cup... I'll rack it up myself!
tony74 wrote:Some positives in all this mess...
Not one sponsor has contacted the club in a negative way, in fact a couple have responded in the positive way our club has responded immediately.
Media have been strong in the way our club and players have responded to the incident. Talk of the building of a strong culture and the players being absolutely furious.
And whether you like it or not if our wonderful club does win a flag in the next 5 years it's a pretty good bet J.Carlisle will be in the team.
Linton Lodger wrote:Shite, can some people on here get a grip! I'm glad some posters are not making decisions at the Club (and I'm glad I don't work for them)!
Do you honestly think that Carlisle would distribute video of himself snorting an illicit substance? Looks like a piss take on the Bennell incident to be frank. I would suggest that the white powder is icing sugar or good 'ol Ajax. Given how excitable the Yanks are about narcotics, they would have arrested him in a nanosecond if it were a naughty substance.
At worst we're dealing with a joke and I couldn't really give a toss. Yeah its a bit dumb on his behalf, given the complete disregard for the privacy of anyone in elite sports. However, on a more serious note its indicative of the mainstream media's pathetic descent into the peddling of shallow gossip.
He basically admitted it was drugs by what he said. And I don't think we can blame the media for his stupidy. Its news for sure.
I saw nothing in his statement as an admission to using illicit substances. My point regarding stupidity, was in the context that he knows as an AFL player he is mostly always under the gaze of the media and has limited privacy. In regard to blaming the poor old media (or is it now the entertainment industry?), yes they carry blame. On one hand its the media that fertilises the 'role model' concept and says its concerned with badly influencing the kiddies. Yet on the other hand they take a private video that normally wouldn't see the light of day and therefore could not influence anyone and send it viral.
For the record I really couldn't give a rat's ass if it is cocaine. He is on Annual Leave and not on the job.
I can see a silver lining to this though.
If he's got half a brain (which I agree is in dispute at the moment) he'll come into the club knowing he owes the club and his teammates big time.
No sense of entitlement to status, to salary, to special handling. No saviour mentality, no centre of attention security.
He clearly knows now he'll have to earn his stripes. Each one of them.
Could be the making of him.
I was always against us getting him BUT now that he's one os uf, we may as well make the best of the situation. My belief is that if Jake has ANY character he will be ashamed and humiliated at what he has done and the perception amongst his new team mates. It will hopefully make him even more determined to train harder and be better and not let anyone down again.
from Matt Finnis media today I'd say there are still questions being asked of his manager and Jake when he returns- Matt's words when asked- there does seem to be some grey area, he said etc etc..-
avid wrote:I can see a silver lining to this though.
If he's got half a brain (which I agree is in dispute at the moment) he'll come into the club knowing he owes the club and his teammates big time.
No sense of entitlement to status, to salary, to special handling. No saviour mentality, no centre of attention security.
He clearly knows now he'll have to earn his stripes. Each one of them.
Could be the making of him.
Damn right he needs to earn his stripes after Jake the Snake made sure he got his big fat stack contract signed rather than tell the club about the bomb floating around out there ready explode. He's got zero level of respect and zero level of trust from me. Needs to lay down some serious s*** on the field - 100% effort 100% of the time, giving blood and bones for a few years to get respect and trust back. No more picking and choosing when to go hard. He owes us big time.
It's easy to sign a prepared statement after you got you caught with your hand in the cookie jar. What would have taken genuine balls is to tell the club BEFOREHAND "hey guys, I really want to come to your club but I got to let you know I did something stupid in a video that may come to light at some stage". It would risk the trade but that would have been genuine courage and integrity. Needs to earn it before I'll #standbyjake. I can see his issues now. He's always looking after number one as a lot of insecure people do out of a sense of desperation. Needs to grow up in a hurry. Hopefully Richo will be the father figure he needs to become a more mature person and footballer.
avid wrote:I can see a silver lining to this though.
If he's got half a brain (which I agree is in dispute at the moment) he'll come into the club knowing he owes the club and his teammates big time.
No sense of entitlement to status, to salary, to special handling. No saviour mentality, no centre of attention security.
He clearly knows now he'll have to earn his stripes. Each one of them.
Could be the making of him.
We'll have to go with that.
I do think we should take him and put a big red circle around our next bummers encounter and say we want what you want - to utterly annihilate these pr!cks, and for you to be BOG.
That might go some way towards making up for the sponsorships we will lose or not attract because of this a-hole.
The rest of Australia can wander mask-free, socialise, eat out, no curfews, no zoning, no police rings of steel, no illogical inconsistent rules.
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!
avid wrote:I can see a silver lining to this though.
If he's got half a brain (which I agree is in dispute at the moment) he'll come into the club knowing he owes the club and his teammates big time.
No sense of entitlement to status, to salary, to special handling. No saviour mentality, no centre of attention security.
He clearly knows now he'll have to earn his stripes. Each one of them.
Could be the making of him.
We'll have to go with that.
I do think we should take him and put a big red circle around our next bummers encounter and say we want what you want - to utterly annihilate these pr!cks, and for you to be BOG.
ironically Essendon supporters will be calling Carlisle a druggy. absolute gold and worth the price of admission alone.
tony74 wrote:Some positives in all this mess...
Not one sponsor has contacted the club in a negative way, in fact a couple have responded in the positive way our club has responded immediately.
Media have been strong in the way our club and players have responded to the incident. Talk of the building of a strong culture and the players being absolutely furious.
And whether you like it or not if our wonderful club does win a flag in the next 5 years it's a pretty good bet J.Carlisle will be in the team.
there are no positives in this story ffs, what are you talking about.
One day on and you are confident that no current or prospective sponsors will take a negative view of this.
God i hope you aren't really " on the inside ".
We are now again back to the laughing stock saints.
tony74 wrote:Some positives in all this mess...
Not one sponsor has contacted the club in a negative way, in fact a couple have responded in the positive way our club has responded immediately.
Media have been strong in the way our club and players have responded to the incident. Talk of the building of a strong culture and the players being absolutely furious.
And whether you like it or not if our wonderful club does win a flag in the next 5 years it's a pretty good bet J.Carlisle will be in the team.
I appreciate your efforts putting a positive spin on this incident but suggest Carlisle's presence at the club is toxic and irredeemable. Sponsors haven't contacted the club in a negative way because the club has done nothing wrong! The blame rests with Carlisle but by accepting him into the club we are endorsing the behaviour and asking players and supporters to accept his gross and unforgivable breach of trust.
Its early days yet as far as the media is concerned. Every time Carlisle speaks in future it will be received in the context of this incident. He and the club will be a easy target for beratement.
I indeed would like it very much if our club won a premiership in the next 5 years...... or even during my lifetime. However, I sense from your comment that in your heart you acknowledge Carlisle's presence in a Saints premiership team would tarnish the achievement. I believe we have a better chance of success without him. I favour integrity over a premiership at any cost
samuraisaint wrote:Young people make errors of judgement - the whole point of education is to learn from your mistakes. From all accounts Jake didn't have the easiest upbringing so maybe he didn't have a good mentor or role model around. The club he came from certainly let him down a bit. Give him the opportunity to learn from his mistake and to redeem himself. I would much rather what he did compared to a violent act or a disrespectful act towards a woman.
Sometimes it takes a big wake up call to turn things around.
Welcome to the Saints Jake. Hope you finish top 10 in the B&F and we rise a few places on the ladder - which I didn't think we would do this year.
Look me personally, I'm the most anti-drug person I know... Never smoked so much as a joint, and as someone that works in a profession where we have to try and manage the behaviour of many many heavy ice users and are often threatened to take responsibility for said users actions... Lets just say it's made me very bitter with regards to illicit substance use and users.
That said, i really don't get the hysteria here.
Before we sack Jake for his behaviour surely any player that
- that has gotten into a fight and struck someone
- ever stolen anything
- ever been involved in a serious traffic infringement
- drunk driven
- ever been evicted from an establishment secondary to drunken behaviour
- ever verbally abused someone
Should be sacked too
All of those things negatively impact on people worse then a player using an illicit substance in privacy without hurting anyone
)
