Carlisle "scandal"

[samoht]

I just had a look and couldn't see that?

All I can see is stuff suggesting that he's in deep s*** when he faces his new teammates.

Our less than diligent recruiters should be standing beside their "prize recruit" and also be facing the players. They deserve most of the flak, really.

[Johnny Member]

I just had a look and couldn't see that?

All I can see is stuff suggesting that he's in deep s*** when he faces his new teammates.

Our less than diligent recruiters should be standing beside their "prize recruit" and also be facing the players. They deserve most of the flak, really.

No one will give a s*** in 3 months if he's getting a kick.

[White Winmar]

Maybe we'll now become a "destination club" for troubled souls. We've had plenty of experience in the area. In fact I'd say we are the experts.

[Johnny Member]

Maybe we'll now become a "destination club" for troubled souls. We've had plenty of experience in the area. In fact I'd say we are the experts.

Really?

Moreso than other clubs you think?

[samoht]

Maybe we'll now become a "destination club" for troubled souls. We've had plenty of experience in the area. In fact I'd say we are the experts.

Maybe a "recruiting club" for troubled souls - thanks to our less-than-circumspect recruiters/visionaries.

[gringo]

I posted this on the sack JC but it seems relevant here too

Look me personally, I'm the most anti-drug person I know... Never smoked so much as a joint, and as someone that works in a profession where we have to try and manage the behaviour of many many heavy ice users and are often threatened to take responsibility for said users actions... Lets just say it's made me very bitter with regards to illicit substance use and users.

That said, i really don't get the hysteria here.

Before we sack Jake for his behaviour surely any player that
- that has gotten into a fight and struck someone
- ever stolen anything
- ever been involved in a serious traffic infringement
- drunk driven
- ever been evicted from an establishment secondary to drunken behaviour
- ever verbally abused someone

Should be sacked too

All of those things negatively impact on people worse then a player using an illicit substance in privacy without hurting anyone

I agree with the drug paranoia Skeptic. It's a generational thing that older supporters will never really understand - but akin to how rock-n-roll seemed the most evil thing ever invented to the older generation.

My issue is that there are multiple reports that Jake knew the video was out there before the trade was done and did not tell St Kilda. That is a lie by admission. Wilson says his manager knew 5 days out from the trade. You don't think that is a betrayal of trust right off the bat with his new club? Where is his integrity in forewarning us? No doubt his manager advised him not to say anything but he has to take full responsibility for lying to the club by omission.

Its not a showstopper and I don't think he should be sacked - and won't be anyway because he's too valuable. But how can be totally trusted now when they ask him about drugs or anything else? To me it reveals a deep immaturity. He needs to put in a few years of great footy keeping his nose squeaky clean.

i am in my early 40s now and when I was young I played in bands. I saw that many people who died or are still trying to piece together lives from heroin. Some smoked so much weed they lost a decade. I saw guys do speed and coke and they were less addictive but jesus when the get hold they %#@% people up. You can say young people just are more down with the drugs and it just a trivial thing like having a cup of tea for an old person but it can f*** people up. I have a 12 year old daughter who started high school and managing this stuff means a shitty time for parents and isn't a great thing for sponsorship and membership.

Hi Gringo,

I don't want to devalue your opinion or anything like that because you're 100% correct

What I'm trying to get at here, and maybe not clearly enough is draw attention to the disproportion that has crept into the argument here

JC was caught on camera doing coke and there is a movement growing to sack him. I don't like it all but on the grandscale of recklessness, stupidity, danger etc it's not the worse thing that's going on out there in the AFL.

There are players on lists right now that are regularly using illicit substances and getting off scott free because they disclose to the AFL
There are drink drivers
There are players that damaged property
Some accused of sexually assaulting women
Some of being violent

This is happening right now but the hysteria is at JC because he did coke on camera at his house, or hotel room or whatever

This hysteria is utterly absud

To me it's not the act it's how it looks for the club. We look dumb as a club for going after him and giving up so much. We look dumb believing he wasn't as big an idiot as some had suggested, we look dumb for being duped by his manager and it has caused a s*** storm to land at the feet of an admin who have pushed s*** up hill to turn our club into what resembles a professional outfit. It pretty much rips up a lot of that work.

I'm pissed off with him and while I don't think sacking him does anything but act as circuit breaker, it would at least look decisive. I can't see him being smart enough to see out his contract, he's one indiscretion away from the scrap heap and apparently he spends most of his spare time smoking cigarettes and gambling at the TAB. How long is it going to be until someone following him around catches him doing something stupid. Every d**khead with a phone will be after him now they know they can earn $20 000. He's not smart enough to avoid it.

[Johnny Member]

To be honest, the only people that I see that think this reflects in any way on the Saints - are Saints supporters.

[Wrote for Luck]

Even though some of the reactions on here have been very strong, it's good, it shows how much we care and how protective we are of what we have been building.

[asiu]

I always wonder how I would handle it if it was my own child. I am lucky , she is a very driven girl, who to the best of my knowledge hasnever touched drugs. She tells me the stories , she comes home from parties if things get willing drug wise, and shakes her head at the footballers.But if something happened and she went down that road, I would move heaven and earth to get her on track again.I have never been a dabbler in drugs either. And I am not saying that in a way to try and make myself some sort of martyr, I am saying it to explain whyI don't understand the easy acceptance of drug use either.

i know this wont go down to well ... it certainly didnt go down with most of the parents
in our 'peer group' at the time ! ... but ... the results are in the eating.

i preface the following , by saying that in my 'young , dumb 'n full of shite days' i spent time with lads who didnt give one iota about societal nicities.
(so ya see a bit 'n partake in a bit of the 'wild side' ... until by the Grace of God , ya wake up)

Anyways
... my kids are two years apart.
... by the time they were thinking about trying a cigarette
i said 'when u wanna try that , tell me , we'll talk it out , 'n if u still wanna proceed ,
we'll make it happen ... together.
It happened.

Same process , when they got to the 'tryn a drink' process of growing up.
It happened.

Repeated the process for 'trying the weed' part of growing up.
It happened.

Repeated the process for their first pill.

I could not be prouder of my two kids.
... i have NO FEAR , that either shall partake in any behaviour out of peer group pressure.

He's kicking goals in the Fashion industry thats rife with drug use.
... he's not interested ... been there , done that , own the tee shirt.
Concentrates on dealing with the realities of HIS chosen career / lifestyle choices.

Same for her ... but different.

They both know , coz they were treated as kids 'with choices to make' ... so lets make em in the spirit of openness around experiences ... that the power to say No .. is theirs.

Couldnt possibly be prouder.
... both are Addiction free , broad thinking , generously inclusive , balanced Leaders , not followers.

Sure , they'll eff up somewhere along the line.
... but they'll own it , process it 'n get back up off the canvas.

Thats life isnt it !
... getting back up.

The wisdom in the process ... its a marathon not a sprint.

[saynta]

I posted this on the sack JC but it seems relevant here too

Look me personally, I'm the most anti-drug person I know... Never smoked so much as a joint, and as someone that works in a profession where we have to try and manage the behaviour of many many heavy ice users and are often threatened to take responsibility for said users actions... Lets just say it's made me very bitter with regards to illicit substance use and users.

That said, i really don't get the hysteria here.

Before we sack Jake for his behaviour surely any player that
- that has gotten into a fight and struck someone
- ever stolen anything
- ever been involved in a serious traffic infringement
- drunk driven
- ever been evicted from an establishment secondary to drunken behaviour
- ever verbally abused someone

Should be sacked too

All of those things negatively impact on people worse then a player using an illicit substance in privacy without hurting anyone

I agree with the drug paranoia Skeptic. It's a generational thing that older supporters will never really understand - but akin to how rock-n-roll seemed the most evil thing ever invented to the older generation.

My issue is that there are multiple reports that Jake knew the video was out there before the trade was done and did not tell St Kilda. That is a lie by admission. Wilson says his manager knew 5 days out from the trade. You don't think that is a betrayal of trust right off the bat with his new club? Where is his integrity in forewarning us? No doubt his manager advised him not to say anything but he has to take full responsibility for lying to the club by omission.

Its not a showstopper and I don't think he should be sacked - and won't be anyway because he's too valuable. But how can be totally trusted now when they ask him about drugs or anything else? To me it reveals a deep immaturity. He needs to put in a few years of great footy keeping his nose squeaky clean.

i am in my early 40s now and when I was young I played in bands. I saw that many people who died or are still trying to piece together lives from heroin. Some smoked so much weed they lost a decade. I saw guys do speed and coke and they were less addictive but jesus when the get hold they %#@% people up. You can say young people just are more down with the drugs and it just a trivial thing like having a cup of tea for an old person but it can f*** people up. I have a 12 year old daughter who started high school and managing this stuff means a shitty time for parents and isn't a great thing for sponsorship and membership.

Well said. I have seen first hand the damage drugs do, But you can't put wise old heads on young shoulders. The young are like every previous generation. They think they know it all and definately know more than fuddy duddy oldies.

[saynta]

Why are we happy to take on damaged goods, now ... after full knowledge of the facts - if there's a way out?
Last chance means that if he does it again, we've basically thrown away pick 5 - why are we happy to continue with him?

It's too risky - if we can get out, WE SHOULD! Can you rely on this guy???

But ..Can we get out of this?

He's definitely misrepresented himself - and shown his good or "acceptable" side to us (and tried to hide - or not disclose - his bad side from us).
So if we can rescind the contract, we should.

Alternatively, if we can get him through the PSD, without giving away any picks or involving pick 5 - if we still want him that badly that is - that's the way we should do it now. We owe him and Essendank nothing!

If there is still a way out, I'm pretty sure our CEO will find it.

[ripplug66]

Why are we happy to take on damaged goods, now ... after full knowledge of the facts - if there's a way out?
Last chance means that if he does it again, we've basically thrown away pick 5 - why are we happy to continue with him?

It's too risky - if we can get out, WE SHOULD! Can you rely on this guy???

But ..Can we get out of this?

He's definitely misrepresented himself - and shown his good or "acceptable" side to us (and tried to hide - or not disclose - his bad side from us).
So if we can rescind the contract, we should.

Alternatively, if we can get him through the PSD, without giving away any picks or involving pick 5 - if we still want him that badly that is - that's the way we should do it now. We owe him and Essendank nothing!

If there is still a way out, I'm pretty sure our CEO will find it.

There is. sack him, lose our pick and pay him out. None of those will happen and neither they should.

[White Winmar]

Maybe we'll now become a "destination club" for troubled souls. We've had plenty of experience in the area. In fact I'd say we are the experts.

Really?

Moreso than other clubs you think?

Good point, JM. I know only too well from direct experience that the scallywag factor exists at every club. We have had our fair share of tools over time though.

[IanRush]

OK Saints fans, once again, your ally Rushie has come up with some goods.

My workmate has met Carlisle, his niece is friends with young Jake.

Says he’s a good bloke, and at parties in Melbourne that Jake attends with Workmate’s Niece, Jake insists on guests “not taking his photo, when he is holding a beer glass, as social media leak it too easily and too many dickheads mis-interpret it”.

Workmate agrees that Carlisle has been stitched-up That is hardly a big drinker, let alone a drug taker.

[White Winmar]

OK Saints fans, once again, your ally Rushie has come up with some goods.

My workmate has met Carlisle, his niece is friends with young Jake.

Says he’s a good bloke, and at parties in Melbourne that Jake attends with Workmate’s Niece, Jake insists on guests “not taking his photo, when he is holding a beer glass, as social media leak it too easily and too many dickheads mis-interpret it”.

Workmate agrees that Carlisle has been stitched-up That is hardly a big drinker, let alone a drug taker.

Thanks Rushie. Some sanity and perspective is starting to prevail. Onwards and upwards, I say!

[james rose]

I honestly think this is ridiculously overblown. If every player who did a line was sacked from AFL we'd be sacking at least 25% of the players. Gee we love a lynch mob in the AFL.

Bit of a shameless plug and my more reasoned thoughts: http://www.zerohanger.com/jake-carlisle ... lease-2862

[samoht]

Thanks Rushie. Some sanity and perspective is starting to prevail. Onwards and upwards, I say!

Thanks Rushie.
So we only got half the story right or misheard - and the guy is actually a rip snorter of a human being.

[james rose]

Thanks Rushie. Some sanity and perspective is starting to prevail. Onwards and upwards, I say!

Thanks Rushie.
So we only got half the story right or misheard - and the guy is actually a rip snorter of a human being.

Pun intended? Gold!

[Moods]

OK Saints fans, once again, your ally Rushie has come up with some goods.

My workmate has met Carlisle, his niece is friends with young Jake.

Says he’s a good bloke, and at parties in Melbourne that Jake attends with Workmate’s Niece, Jake insists on guests “not taking his photo, when he is holding a beer glass, as social media leak it too easily and too many dickheads mis-interpret it”.

Workmate agrees that Carlisle has been stitched-up That is hardly a big drinker, let alone a drug taker.

Thanks Rushie. Some sanity and perspective is starting to prevail. Onwards and upwards, I say!

Hang on I just a pig flying across the sky

[Bunk_Moreland]

OK Saints fans, once again, your ally Rushie has come up with some goods.

My workmate has met Carlisle, his niece is friends with young Jake.

Says he’s a good bloke, and at parties in Melbourne that Jake attends with Workmate’s Niece, Jake insists on guests “not taking his photo, when he is holding a beer glass, as social media leak it too easily and too many dickheads mis-interpret it”.

Workmate agrees that Carlisle has been stitched-up That is hardly a big drinker, let alone a drug taker.

Thanks Rushie. Some sanity and perspective is starting to prevail. Onwards and upwards, I say!

Hang on I just a pig flying across the sky

Maybe so, but he hasn't been stitched up on the drugs, he has fully admitted it, no shred of dithering about assuming guilt.

The other part may be true. From the guy at work who knows Carlisle, he says he is a nice bloke, always up for a chat, and doesn't seem up himself to him.

Does like a dart and a punt and a beer (and a line apparently).

The guy had made a monumentally stupid decision, taking stupid to a new level.

But lets not demonise the bloke, someone that most of us has never met.

the proof will be in his actions. Lets hope he means what he says.

[asiu]

Jakes only the goldfish in this play.
... the holes for Injectordon.

Lets bury em deep everytime we play em.

[WinnersOnly]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-23/d ... g-carlisle

If the Bulldogs were aware of Carlisle's problems HTF can our club not know? They have just committed to a 2.5million investment over 4 years and they didnt have the intel that the Bulldogs had. To me that is amateur hour at the Saints and really damaging to the clubs brand and disappointing for supporters!

[WinnersOnly]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-23/d ... g-carlisle

If the Bulldogs were aware of Carlisle's problems HTF can our club not know? They have just committed to a 2.5million investment over 4 years and they didnt have the intel that the Bulldogs had. To me that is amateur hour at the Saints and really damaging to the clubs brand and disappointing for supporters!

[james rose]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-23/d ... g-carlisle

If the Bulldogs were aware of Carlisle's problems HTF can our club not know? They have just committed to a 2.5million investment over 4 years and they didnt have the intel that the Bulldogs had. To me that is amateur hour at the Saints and really damaging to the clubs brand and disappointing for supporters!

Their issue wasn't related to this one.

[matrix]

Look I love a good conspiracy
But even I'm not sure what to think of the leak

But...is it possible that it was by essendon?
We have heard him crack the s***s coming off the field, a reported punch up with bj, what else has happened that we don't know about... After the last game final siren apparently he just walked, what else did he say to them did he let his truefeelings bbe known about the drug asada stuff, because I know I certainly would've.
Could they have said, f*** u we will ruin you?????