Sydney's involvement in Carlisle trade makes more sense now

[The_Merchant]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/a ... 4153cc3e06

Sydney always looked like they came out massive unders with the Carlisle trade, however it make a lot more sense if part of the trade included Essendon promising not to bid on their academy selections. Hopefully we were not involved and Essendon and Sydney get pulled up if that is what happens. The Carlton GWS trades also become much clearer.

[degruch]

Can't read the article...is that what's being implied, or is there a direct accusation of secret deals between Essendon/Sydney and GWS/Carlton?

[The_Merchant]

Afl says that they don't think there has been collusion but the article brings up the idea that collusion may have occurred and that one club has stated that they were offered a pick as part of a trade on the proviso they didn't bid on an academy player.

[saintspremiers]

When it comes trading Shytme are about as corrupt as they come.

I think Gilligan has his head up his arse on this one if he thinks otherwise....

[Playon]

THE AFL has been asked to clarify rules on secret side deals clubs believe were completed during trade period.

One club wants answers from the league as fears grow that backroom deals stemming from the complex new bidding system could affect this month’s national draft.

The AFL said it was “highly unlikely” clubs would be colluding, which is punishable as conduct prejudicial to the draft.

List chiefs believe some clubs with academy or father-son prospects attempted to strike trades on the proviso their players would not be bid on.

It is the second concern raised by clubs about the new live bidding system, which was introduced to ensure academy and father-son prospects cost closer to market price.

Hawthorn list boss Graham Wright last month called for a full review of the draft points loophole allowing northern-state clubs to trade away prized early draft picks for multiple back-end selections carrying more points.

Greater Western Sydney academy stars Matthew Kennedy and Jacob Hopper and Sydney’s Callum Mills are all rated as top-five prospects and intrigue surrounds when bids for them will come.

Melbourne and Carlton both landed top-10 picks in deals with the Giants while the Swans helped broker the Jake Carlisle deal, which delivered Essendon pick five.
Hawks list boss Graham Wright has called for a review of the draft points loophole.

GWS holds pick 10, meaning if Kennedy and Hopper do not attract bids beforehand the Giants can pull a third prized talent out of the draft pool. And GWS would secure Kennedy and Hopper well below market price.

The Herald Sun believes Melbourne will bid pick No.3 on Mills and Gold Coast will bid No.6 on both GWS players if they are still available.

“Yeah, we’re worried — and we’ve formally asked the AFL for clarity on it because it’s actually collusion,” one chief recruiter said.

“We’ve actually got proof because as part of a trade we were talking about with (a club) they asked us not to bid on (their player).

“It’s very difficult (to police) but the AFL integrity unit are jumping on everything, so are we fair dinkum or not? At least send out a warning.”

AFL integrity officer Brett Clothier said the new system would be reviewed after the draft.

“If any clubs were colluding not to bid on players, we would come down terribly, terribly hard on that. The question is whether you can prove that, obviously.”

[Wayne42]

More paranoia from clubs that don't have academies, trying to stop clubs that do have academies gaining from all the work they put into these
kids from the rugby states.

I smell McGuire

[WinnersOnly]

Hardly think its paranioa its more reality. Of course clubs are going to exploit the rules, this is exactly why the bidding on these players needs to be done in a silent manner before trade periods and the draft. I understand the issues with clubs trading out picks but that would just then cancel bid.

There is no doubt clubs with the principals of Essendon would be happy to do under the table deals!

[Wayne42]

Hardly think its paranioa its more reality. Of course clubs are going to exploit the rules, this is exactly why the bidding on these players needs to be done in a silent manner before trade periods and the draft. I understand the issues with clubs trading out picks but that would just then cancel bid.

There is no doubt clubs with the principals of Essendon would be happy to do under the table deals!

Definitely Paranoia, Vic clubs can't cope with the thought the Interstate clubs have a mechanism that will aid them to succeed.

[BigMart]

No one should have any mechanism to help them succeed outside of draft order.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Hardly think its paranioa its more reality. Of course clubs are going to exploit the rules, this is exactly why the bidding on these players needs to be done in a silent manner before trade periods and the draft. I understand the issues with clubs trading out picks but that would just then cancel bid.

There is no doubt clubs with the principals of Essendon would be happy to do under the table deals!

Definitely Paranoia, Vic clubs can't cope with the thought the Interstate clubs have a mechanism that will aid them to succeed.

Not paranoia at all just another in a long list of unfair advantages to the Northern states.

[Bluthy]

Isn't the flaw in this that they would have to work out a deal with all other 17 teams as any of them can put in a bid. Why would Sydney do a trade for unders with Saints and Dons when there are 15 other teams that could undo their clever plan with a single bid.

[Freebird]

How did Sydney trade for unders..I thought the points they received were more than the picks (points) they give up.
Bird was not a required player by Swans..worked well for them.

[Bluthy]

How did Sydney trade for unders..I thought the points they received were more than the picks (points) they give up.
Bird was not a required player by Swans..worked well for them.

That's what I'm saying. If people are saying there is another layer to this - and they are saying Swans did a soft deal with a hidden agenda - then they would have to try and lock down all the other teams in the comp not to bid high. It doesn't make sense. I just see it more that the deal maximises their points and maybe also give a little off the cuff - "hey if we do this deal which you guys do well out of maybe you don't bid high on our little fella's hey". So it slightly increases their chances of getting their academy dudes cheaper but not by a lot I would have thought.

[Con Gorozidis]

Can't read the article...is that what's being implied, or is there a direct accusation of secret deals between Essendon/Sydney and GWS/Carlton?

If Essendon dont bid on Mills then the Swans will get him cheaply.

Also if Carlton dont bid on Hopper - GWS get him relatively cheaply.

Hopefully Melbourne bid on Mills And Essendon bid on Hopper.

[SuperDuper]

IMO the whole thing is draft tampering... but the AFL dont care because it involved
1. the franchise clubs and
2. Melbourne and Carlton who the AFL want to see improve because the games have become one sided

You cannot say that a deal for Bugg+ 7 for 10, 43 and 64 is fair... unless of course you are trading for points..
But trading for points is tampering with the draft, and should be declared as such...

The points system is to facilitate f/s and academy picks... so you get draft picks based on where you finish and then the points determine which pick you need to use...

So if GWS have pick 7 and Hopper is bid at pick 3, then they need to pay with pick 7...
If they chose to trade pick 7, then they should miss Hopper in the same way that us chosing to trade pick 5 means that we miss out on picking pick 5! (whoever that is!)

It would remain GWS choice... but they should not be able to trade that pick down and still get the spoils... it compromises the draft...

Our pick has moved from 14 to 18 due to this tampering, whereas it should have only moved to 16... this may mean a lot depending on how we ranked the players.. maybe our 5th ranked player gets taken at pick 16 and we have to take our 15th ranked player at 18... that really affects us

[bergholt]

Isn't the flaw in this that they would have to work out a deal with all other 17 teams as any of them can put in a bid. Why would Sydney do a trade for unders with Saints and Dons when there are 15 other teams that could undo their clever plan with a single bid.

Nah, there are only 6 clubs with a pick before GWS's pick 10, and that's the zone of contention because that's the value these players are estimated to have.