Freeman due back in the devs

[Bunk_Moreland]

Sat out the last qtr on the bench. No strapping, no ice, no limp.

All good

So way down in possessions from last game and benched in the last qtr. Already on a downward trajectory. Dud.

Yes seemed disinterested. Papers stamped. Delist

[bigcarl]

Good that he got through, I've got high hopes for this kid. I hope he's a gun partly for our midfield's sake and, secondly, to spite Collingwood,

I hope we are able to navigate the fine line between being over cautious with the kid and getting him to senior football. If his body holds up and his form is good enough I don't see why he shouldn't play seniors this season. If it's going to break it's going to break

Why does it matter he plays ones this year? Are we going for a flag? No. As long as he plays some footy where he can learn his craft onfield - whether devs for Sandy firsts - thats what matters. People just want to see their new speedy toy out there. But logic says why risk him in the high pace AFL arena yet. Let him do another full preseason where they can keep working on building all his leg muscles up they way they want and then he can have a crack at AFL. Thats the sensible course to me.

I did say it's a fine line but I'd err on the side of getting him out there if his body holds up and his form is good enough. That's my opinion but you are entitled to yours.

[White Winmar]

WTF is Freeman doing sitting on the bench with all his hamstring issues?

Where the f*** are his Pilates trainer and yoga instructor?

It's amateur hour! This is BS. I want heads!!

Please SaintPav! This is a family site! Oh...you said headS! My bad!

[Darth Vader]

Good that he got through, I've got high hopes for this kid. I hope he's a gun partly for our midfield's sake and, secondly, to spite Collingwood,

I hope we are able to navigate the fine line between being over cautious with the kid and getting him to senior football. If his body holds up and his form is good enough I don't see why he shouldn't play seniors this season. If it's going to break it's going to break

Why does it matter he plays ones this year? Are we going for a flag? No. As long as he plays some footy where he can learn his craft onfield - whether devs for Sandy firsts - thats what matters. People just want to see their new speedy toy out there. But logic says why risk him in the high pace AFL arena yet. Let him do another full preseason where they can keep working on building all his leg muscles up they way they want and then he can have a crack at AFL. Thats the sensible course to me.

Agree but with one qualification. If he's fit, ready and raring to go, would be good to give him a game or two in the seniors at the end of the year for his confidence/mental side of things. Would give him a taste, build confidence for the pre-season, get the debut over and done with etc. much like Geelong giving Menzel a crack late last year.

[Dr Spaceman]

Agree but with one qualification. If he's fit, ready and raring to go, would be good to give him a game or two in the seniors at the end of the year for his confidence/mental side of things. Would give him a taste, build confidence for the pre-season, get the debut over and done with etc. much like Geelong giving Menzel a crack late last year.

We could perhaps give him a taste against Brisbane.

Although that's probably a step down in skills and intensity from the comp he played in yesterday

[Goose is king]

If he holds up and is ready to play seniors they will play him. The club don't want to say they are hopeful of a debut this year as one more setback and that's gone. The messaging will change in eight weeks time if he has progressed from getting through a game to dominating back to back weeks for Sandy.

[Winmar]

A single senior game from him this year would be a huge win. I'm not expecting it, but if it happens then fantastic. The main thing is he gets his body right this year, so if it's still ok after pre-season he can get a lot of game time next year.

[Jacks Back]

From the injuries update thread:
"Cox revealed young midfielder Nathan Freeman will enter a conditioning phase for the next fortnight after making a successful comeback with Sandringham’s development team on the weekend, before returning after the bye"

Conditioning phase??? Not returning until after the bye?? Two weeks or our bye in Round 13?? FFS!!!

[realdeal]

From the injuries update thread:
"Cox revealed young midfielder Nathan Freeman will enter a conditioning phase for the next fortnight after making a successful comeback with Sandringham’s development team on the weekend, before returning after the bye"

Conditioning phase??? Not returning until after the bye?? Two weeks or our bye in Round 13?? FFS!!!

I'm sure Cox means Sandringham, Round 9 in 2 weeks. As that's who he'd be playing with anyway.

[Jacks Back]

From the injuries update thread:
"Cox revealed young midfielder Nathan Freeman will enter a conditioning phase for the next fortnight after making a successful comeback with Sandringham’s development team on the weekend, before returning after the bye"

Conditioning phase??? Not returning until after the bye?? Two weeks or our bye in Round 13?? FFS!!!

I'm sure Cox means Sandringham, Round 9 in 2 weeks. As that's who he'd be playing with anyway.

Okay so Sandy just had a bye and now their having another one in two weeks. Geez.

Still another 3 weeks before he plays again. He needs a number of consecutive games surely to get those hammies a'singin in tune.

[realdeal]

From the injuries update thread:
"Cox revealed young midfielder Nathan Freeman will enter a conditioning phase for the next fortnight after making a successful comeback with Sandringham’s development team on the weekend, before returning after the bye"

Conditioning phase??? Not returning until after the bye?? Two weeks or our bye in Round 13?? FFS!!!

I'm sure Cox means Sandringham, Round 9 in 2 weeks. As that's who he'd be playing with anyway.

Okay so Sandy just had a bye and now their having another one in two weeks. Geez.

Still another 3 weeks before he plays again. He needs a number of consecutive games surely to get those hammies a'singin in tune.

You'd think do and we would certainly have hoped so but we're being overly cautious. As they said, it's all about next year and beyond for Freeman.

Don't get me started on the VFL and the amount of bye's there are, not to mention the stupid times of the Sandri gram matches, they never work in line with the Saints games. How many times do we have players sit out the entire weekend of footy because they're emergencies for St.kilda so they can't play for Sandy, only for Sandy to have a bye the next week. Grrrr

[Jacks Back]

From the injuries update thread:
"Cox revealed young midfielder Nathan Freeman will enter a conditioning phase for the next fortnight after making a successful comeback with Sandringham’s development team on the weekend, before returning after the bye"

Conditioning phase??? Not returning until after the bye?? Two weeks or our bye in Round 13?? FFS!!!

I'm sure Cox means Sandringham, Round 9 in 2 weeks. As that's who he'd be playing with anyway.

Okay so Sandy just had a bye and now their having another one in two weeks. Geez.

Still another 3 weeks before he plays again. He needs a number of consecutive games surely to get those hammies a'singin in tune.

You'd think do and we would certainly have hoped so but we're being overly cautious. As they said, it's all about next year and beyond for Freeman.

Don't get me started on the VFL and the amount of bye's there are, not to mention the stupid times of the Sandri gram matches, they never work in line with the Saints games. How many times do we have players sit out the entire weekend of footy because they're emergencies for St.kilda so they can't play for Sandy, only for Sandy to have a bye the next week. Grrrr

You're right about the times Sandy play. Last weekend only Fisher was there helping out talking to the defenders at the breaks but for Casey/Melbourne I saw Jack Watts, Jack Viney and Jessie Hogan watching on (and probably others but that's all I recognised).

[Toy Saint]

Did the club really expect to 'nurse' Freeman through the entire season? Was this the expectation when we recurited him?

He's cost us a 2nd round draft pick, usually a decent handy player.

This better be worth it.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Did the club really expect to 'nurse' Freeman through the entire season? Was this the expectation when we recurited him?

Yes. It is one of the main reasons why he came to St.Kilda in the first place

He's cost us a 2nd round draft pick, usually a decent handy player.

This better be worth it.

he cost a second rounder from THIS YEARS draft so if he doesn't play a single AFL game we have not lost a thing, If he plays one VFL seniors game he is a head of the player we could have drafted this coming November.

Hell he has played two dev games so he is already ahead.

As for worth a second rounder. Freeman was a top ten pick and fully fit will easily be worth it.

or would you rather rush Freeman and tear his hamstring again?

Cool you jets and let the club medico's do what they have been doing - rehabilitating his hammy to AFL conditions.

[Bluthy]

As for worth a second rounder. Freeman was a top ten pick and fully fit will easily be worth it.

You can't be sure of that. His highlights as a junior looked pretty good. But he's missed two full years of onfield development during the crucial early phase of his AFL career. Has a chronic injury that has involved multiple surgeries leaving scaring. We don't know how much of this main weapon, his express burst speed, will still be functioning. And then there is the risk factor of using a second rounder when we aren't even sure we can get him on the field in a meaningful way. People have a right to question if a second rounder was too high.

Pick 5 (or rounded down to about pick 7 or 8 after the wheeling and dealing) also seemed to high for 23 y.o back men with injuries and attitude problems. We didn't NEED these players in the sense we have development time to keep going to the draft with our high picks and yet we seemed to get bent over at the trade table as Richo or someone had hard ons for them.

I'm a big fan of the draft during the rebuilding phase. Yes its risky but you can also strike it really big with raw, fresh mouldable clay. I was worried about how quick we were to start trading away our high picks for injured players almost like we thought we were ready for finals.

[Bunk_Moreland]

As for worth a second rounder. Freeman was a top ten pick and fully fit will easily be worth it.

You can't be sure of that. His highlights as a junior looked pretty good. But he's missed two full years of onfield development during the crucial early phase of his AFL career. Has a chronic injury that has involved multiple surgeries leaving scaring. We don't know how much of this main weapon, his express burst speed, will still be functioning. And then there is the risk factor of using a second rounder when we aren't even sure we can get him on the field in a meaningful way. People have a right to question if a second rounder was too high.

Pick 5 (or rounded down to about pick 7 or 8 after the wheeling and dealing) also seemed to high for 23 y.o back men with injuries and attitude problems. We didn't NEED these players in the sense we have development time to keep going to the draft with our high picks and yet we seemed to get bent over at the trade table as Richo or someone had hard ons for them.

I'm a big fan of the draft during the rebuilding phase. Yes its risky but you can also strike it really big with raw, fresh mouldable clay. I was worried about how quick we were to start trading away our high picks for injured players almost like we thought we were ready for finals.

You cant be sure of anyone at 20. Football people with far greater knowledge than you or I, at least two AFL football club thought he was worth at least what we paid for him.

Fully fit Freeman has huge potential. Even partially fit, I saw some extremely smart footy nous from him on the weekend. He knows how to read the play, and get into space. He was quick of the mark and, admittedly with the aid of a breeze, kicked it a couple of times over 50 metres when on the run.

The post I responded to was about the expectations from the club for him this year and his worth.

God know what you are going on about pick 5. We got Carlisle and a first rounder for pick 5. The first rounder turned out to be Gresham. Or are you just ignoring that for arguments sake.

We picked up a top ten dp with potential for this years second rounder. My point was that even if Freeman only plays VFL he is ahead of any player we haven't picked up until this November.

And your last line is just non sensical. If we trade away supposed high picks on injured players, whom the club came out and said we are taking a conservative approach, how is that in any way, shape, or form, the club believing we were ready for finals.

If anything it is the exact opposite. Freeman is a long term prospect for when we ARE in contention. But I suppose logic doesn't suit your argument.

[saintsRrising]

as Richo or someone had hard ons for them.

.

Richo does not have the major say in who we draft or pick up.

However after watching the WC debacle I am of absolutely no doubt that we need a genuine key defender such as Carlisle. Fisher is not long off retirement and our need will only be all the more greater when he does.

The club has been rebuilding and assembling the "jig-saw" to do it.

Pelchen just before he left:




He still has an “intimate” knowledge of the Saints’ planning including their targeting of Essendon’s Jake Carlisle and Collingwood’s Nathan Freeman in the current trade period.

“It really took 24 months to build (our) strategy because we had to look at what was currently available, the drafts going forward and most importantly the club had a really constrained TPP (total player payments) position,” Pelchen told Fox Footy’s Market Watch podcast.

“That’s why Brendon Goddard, Nick Dal Santo and Ben McEvoy had to move on.

“They’re certainly fulfilling what I personally thought was the direction that should be taken.”

The process truly began in 2013 when the Saints won just five games and finished 16th, a year after finishing ninth.
The plan began with the building of a “talent base”, according to Pelchen who headed the charge and was one of the architects of St Kilda’s famous blueprint to return to the top four by 2018.

“(That base was) with young players primarily, we tried to increase our draft participation by 50% in those first three rounds,” he said.
The club is still targeting young players and potential recruits such as Carlisle and Freeman fit into the bracket the Saints are looking to fill.
“They’re young players and Carlisle is a genuine need,” Pelchen explained.

“Hugh Goddard … is looking very good but if it’s not Jake Carlisle, they’re going to have to find another key back.”

He believes they also need to add outside pace to the side.
“They definitely need outside pace. You expect they’ll target players with genuine leg speed and the ability to carry the ball,” Pelchen said.

Well both Carlisle and Freeman were secured.

Rightly or wrongly getting the quality mids we now need as the final key piece was left to late in the process. IMO we need two gun mids. The plan was that this be at least in part via the FA route. Though I remain sceptical about our ability to do this.

However one thing that I am very clear on is that no club can rebuild only through the draft. Even GWS with their absolute swag of early draft picks both in the past and into the future has turned to getting some established players and/or to address particular needs. ie SJ, Mummford, Shaw, Platfull etc

The focus needs to be about getting the talent we need, and not just the draft.

[To the top]

To present that we should have and can rely on the Draft to assemble a competitive List is a nonsense and always has been.

The Draft is a vehicle to Contract players principally from Under-age competitions - and generally you are jumping 17 players in calling out names.

The other equally and even more important vehicles to Contract players are by Free Agency and by trading.

In terms of our List structure, Contracting Carlisle as a key defender and Contracting Freeman as a class mid-fielder were requirements because it is in these 2 areas we need to significantly improve (key defenders and class mid-fielders).

So you take the opportunity whenever opportunity presents - and it presented in regards Carlisle and it presented in regards Freeman so the Club did what it is obliged to do - it secured both players.

Now we have to secure more players - and introduce the kids drafted to a List compromising the likes of Carlisle and Freeman and the others we require to improve and improve sharply.

We have done it before introducing Drafted players starting from Riewoldt and Koschitzke to the likes of Gehrig, Hamill and Penny - and that is the path to the future.

You take them whenever they are available.

[ROLS-LEE]

Did he play this week

[Devilhead]

Did he play this week

Rested as part of his programme - wont play next week either apparently

They are definitely on the go-slow with him

[ROLS-LEE]

Did he play this week

Rested as part of his programme - wont play next week either apparently

They are definitely on the go-slow with him

Cool thanks