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Rice has had more than one decent game in the two's, but agree with Stonie...Acres injured, Phillips might provide some outside dash and has done more than enough to earn his spot, and I just about forgot Goddard was on our list. Dunstan missed the first few, not sure his inclusion would have reversed our loss, as much as I'm not sure Rice's inclusion will transform the team and drag us over the line against Freo.
Overall is baffling to say the least. This would have been the opportune time to give Josh Battle a run, Goddard or even Austin with the 2 defenders meaning we throw Carlisle forward. We are such a reactionary and conservative side its ridiculous. We dont put players in a position to succeed but expect them to learn a new skill then go back to their best position. The worst thing about that is they dont rotate players through midfield. Its a combination of 4-5 players every time; Steven, Steele, Ross and Armo/Dunstan. Its pointless. Last week was evident when we were getting smashed that things werent working. Why not throw Clark, Coffield, Billings, Gresh through the centre bounces. We might not win the clearance or win the hitout but give them the experience to learn. Selection is same as last year. Same s*** different week. Weller, Billings, Gresh are all out of form and are being rewarded. Blokes like Rice, Battle, Paton are playing very well at VFL level so why not reward it. How do you think Sydney, Hawks, Cats have all had sustained success its not just because of drafting and recruiting its also because they are constantly blooding young talent through the side and they also play them in their best position. We did that for 2 seasons and didnt do it last year or this year. How are you meant to push for finals when blokes go out injured and your depth has less than 10 games experience. It's a joke and makes it hard to defend richo and the selection committee when they just play favourites every week.
Wombat15 wrote:Overall is baffling to say the least. This would have been the opportune time to give Josh Battle a run, Goddard or even Austin with the 2 defenders meaning we throw Carlisle forward. We are such a reactionary and conservative side its ridiculous.
Throwing a couple of untried players who haven't shown consistent form in the VFL into the side after a run of bad losses seems pretty reactionary IMO...and we're debuting a new mid to join the usual. Would like to see Coff in the centre too. Acres will probably be FWD, but we still have both Marshall, Hickey and Carlisle up our sleeve to rotate through there...I don't think we're as predictable as it might seem.
We've been bringing plenty of young guys in, just not into our mangy old backline. > this will come back to bite us when we have no young backmen getting any experience.
One of Goddard, Austin or Clavarino shoule be playing most weeks, Brown should be seen as the back-up or when we play a team with a Hawkins type. Getting Brown towards 200 games is great for padding out his retirement fund but is doing nothing for our development and future. Madness if he plays another 22 considering we have 3 young options that need to be looked at.
dragit wrote:We've been bringing plenty of young guys in, just not into our mangy old backline. > this will come back to bite us when we have no young backmen getting any experience.
One of Goddard, Austin or Clavarino shoule be playing most weeks, Brown should be seen as the back-up or when we play a team with a Hawkins type. Getting Brown towards 200 games is great for padding out his retirement fund but is doing nothing for our development and future. Madness if he plays another 22 considering we have 3 young options that need to be looked at.
Brown is 28, hasn't put a foot wrong since he stepped in the door, he could play another 100 games...he's a lock IMO. Carlisle also. Geary is our captain, which leaves Sav, Coff, Webster, White, hopefully Roberton when he's back. Gilbert appears to be sliding out the door, albeit slowly. So, it doesn't look very old, maybe mangy, but if they perform, that should be a decent backline, the others will just have to demand a spot, or sit on the pine. The midfield and forward line are much bigger concerns.
Wombat15 wrote:Overall is baffling to say the least. This would have been the opportune time to give Josh Battle a run, Goddard or even Austin with the 2 defenders meaning we throw Carlisle forward. We are such a reactionary and conservative side its ridiculous. We dont put players in a position to succeed but expect them to learn a new skill then go back to their best position. The worst thing about that is they dont rotate players through midfield. Its a combination of 4-5 players every time; Steven, Steele, Ross and Armo/Dunstan. Its pointless. Last week was evident when we were getting smashed that things werent working. Why not throw Clark, Coffield, Billings, Gresh through the centre bounces. We might not win the clearance or win the hitout but give them the experience to learn. Selection is same as last year. Same s*** different week. Weller, Billings, Gresh are all out of form and are being rewarded. Blokes like Rice, Battle, Paton are playing very well at VFL level so why not reward it. How do you think Sydney, Hawks, Cats have all had sustained success its not just because of drafting and recruiting its also because they are constantly blooding young talent through the side and they also play them in their best position. We did that for 2 seasons and didnt do it last year or this year. How are you meant to push for finals when blokes go out injured and your depth has less than 10 games experience. It's a joke and makes it hard to defend richo and the selection committee when they just play favourites every week.
With the the selection of Phillips we will have blooded 3 new players this year plus getting games into Long, Marshall and White. Can't play many more kids at the one time.
dragit wrote:We've been bringing plenty of young guys in, just not into our mangy old backline. > this will come back to bite us when we have no young backmen getting any experience.
One of Goddard, Austin or Clavarino shoule be playing most weeks, Brown should be seen as the back-up or when we play a team with a Hawkins type. Getting Brown towards 200 games is great for padding out his retirement fund but is doing nothing for our development and future. Madness if he plays another 22 considering we have 3 young options that need to be looked at.
Brown is 28, hasn't put a foot wrong since he stepped in the door, he could play another 100 games...he's a lock IMO. Carlisle also. Geary is our captain, which leaves Sav, Coff, Webster, White, hopefully Roberton when he's back. Gilbert appears to be sliding out the door, albeit slowly. So, it doesn't look very old, maybe mangy, but if they perform, that should be a decent backline, the others will just have to demand a spot, or sit on the pine. The midfield and forward line are much bigger concerns.
Right you are Sir. The backline (apart from your two rebounding/intercept mark half backs) is the most irrelevant area on the field in modern footy if you have a midfield that at least breaks even and doesn't turn the ball over. Quite frankly - our midfield gets it then slaughters it meaning our backs are constantly defending deep and have little opportunity to launch counter attacks. I will admit however that having Geary and Gilbert both behind the ball is a significant liability because they're both abominable kicks.
Even our forward line is functional (in a weird kind of way). I've wondered in-game recently as to how we're going to kick our next goal given the delivery has been so poor. Fix midfield = fix St Kilda. Not rocket surgery
dragit wrote:We've been bringing plenty of young guys in, just not into our mangy old backline. > this will come back to bite us when we have no young backmen getting any experience.
One of Goddard, Austin or Clavarino shoule be playing most weeks, Brown should be seen as the back-up or when we play a team with a Hawkins type. Getting Brown towards 200 games is great for padding out his retirement fund but is doing nothing for our development and future. Madness if he plays another 22 considering we have 3 young options that need to be looked at.
Brown is 28, hasn't put a foot wrong since he stepped in the door, he could play another 100 games...he's a lock IMO. Carlisle also. Geary is our captain, which leaves Sav, Coff, Webster, White, hopefully Roberton when he's back. Gilbert appears to be sliding out the door, albeit slowly. So, it doesn't look very old, maybe mangy, but if they perform, that should be a decent backline, the others will just have to demand a spot, or sit on the pine. The midfield and forward line are much bigger concerns.
Brown is 29.
Our selected backline this week is
Geary 29 Brown 29 Savage 27
Gilbert 31 Carlisle 26 Webster 24
Average age is nearly 28 years old, they're disorganised and woefully lacking in skill… we were flogged last week by a younger side in Melbourne.
Apparently Brown is going great, except no-one can tell me who he stopped last week, Hogan & McDonald had 5 goals 37 touches, 14 marks between them. Brown had 3 marks, 2 kick and 2 clangers while his opponents were running amok.
Another 100 games, FMD and people wonder why we are bottom 4. The game has moved on… can't wait till the club catches on.
dragit wrote:We've been bringing plenty of young guys in, just not into our mangy old backline. > this will come back to bite us when we have no young backmen getting any experience.
One of Goddard, Austin or Clavarino shoule be playing most weeks, Brown should be seen as the back-up or when we play a team with a Hawkins type. Getting Brown towards 200 games is great for padding out his retirement fund but is doing nothing for our development and future. Madness if he plays another 22 considering we have 3 young options that need to be looked at.
Brown is 28, hasn't put a foot wrong since he stepped in the door, he could play another 100 games...he's a lock IMO. Carlisle also. Geary is our captain, which leaves Sav, Coff, Webster, White, hopefully Roberton when he's back. Gilbert appears to be sliding out the door, albeit slowly. So, it doesn't look very old, maybe mangy, but if they perform, that should be a decent backline, the others will just have to demand a spot, or sit on the pine. The midfield and forward line are much bigger concerns.
Brown is 29.
Our selected backline this week is
Geary 29 Brown 29 Savage 27
Gilbert 31 Carlisle 26 Webster 24
Average age is nearly 28 years old, they're disorganised and woefully lacking in skill… we were flogged last week by a younger side in Melbourne.
Apparently Brown is going great, except no-one can tell me who he stopped last week, Hogan & McDonald had 5 goals 37 touches, 14 marks between them. Brown had 3 marks, 2 kick and 2 clangers while his opponents were running amok.
Another 100 games, FMD and people wonder why we are bottom 4. The game has moved on… can't wait till the club catches on.
Yes, as is regularly reported on here, Brown is fine and as far away from an issue as you can probably get. Hogan effectively played midfield, Carlisle was matched up with him for the most part, so T Mc was the happy recipient of all those gifts from Brayshaw and Oliver. The issues last week stemmed from the midfield being slow, unskilled and lacking any defensive pressure...the best backline in the world would struggle, as was evident by the number of uncontested marks the Demons forwards took late in the game. I'd suggest Gilbert won't be there next year, so White or Coffield will be permanent. Otherwise, I don't think the club will be gifting games to players based of the proximity to their 21st birthday.
degruch wrote:Brown is fine and as far away from an issue as you can probably get.
Head in the sand stuff mate, we are currently bottom 3 with probably the oldest and least skillful backline in the comp, we concede a shot on goal every 2nd f50 entry as we don't have enough skilled players to get the ball out.
Clark, Long and Coffield wouldn't be in the side if "knocking the door down" in the VFL was your approach to promotion and player development.
degruch wrote:Brown is fine and as far away from an issue as you can probably get.
Head in the sand stuff mate, we are currently bottom 3 with probably the oldest and least skillful backline in the comp, we concede a shot on goal every 2nd f50 entry as we don't have enough skilled players to get the ball out.
Clark, Long and Coffield wouldn't be in the side if "knocking the door down" in the VFL was your approach to promotion and player development.
You've seen the ball come into our defensive 50 without so much as a whimper from us countless times...geez, in the first half I actually saw some of our midfielders shepherd to protect the player collecting the ball and wondered whether we'd actually decided to turn up! we all know the problem starts well before it gets to Brown. Do you seriously believe Goddard will offer better service than Brown at the moment? I feel sorry for the guy, as he's had wretched luck, but he hasn't shown much at any level since he started with us. Austin would be good to see, but he's been in the system for a little while and gather he's on our list (despite the ludicrous trade details) as a project player.
I take your point re: Long, Clark and Coffield, but all looked more than promising right from the outset and were widely reported as knocking down the door at senior training as soon as they arrived. Either way, the club knows what they're looking at far more than you or I, so I don't think its not head in the sand stuff, I can see some logic in the decision making.
dragit wrote:
Brown is 29.
Our selected backline this week is
Geary 29 Brown 29 Savage 27
Gilbert 31 Carlisle 26 Webster 24
Average age is nearly 28 years old, they're disorganised and woefully lacking in skill… we were flogged last week by a younger side in Melbourne.
Apparently Brown is going great, except no-one can tell me who he stopped last week, Hogan & McDonald had 5 goals 37 touches, 14 marks between them. Brown had 3 marks, 2 kick and 2 clangers while his opponents were running amok.
Another 100 games, FMD and people wonder why we are bottom 4. The game has moved on… can't wait till the club catches on.
We should have never recruited Brown in the first place. We were only on the fringes of scraping in to 8th spot. Richo and the people in charge of list management were deluded and thought we were ready to challenge. I was one of his harshest critics on here...BUT at the moment I am backing Nathan because I've come to realise that if by some miracle we turn this around in a year or 2 and we are a worthy contender he will be a valuable asset. Whether Richo is still around or not does not matter
Another bloke that gets canned on here will also be a valuable asset in a final; Mav Weller. He's perfect for the bash and crash of finals footy. Say what you like about him, but he needs to be managed correctly and if fit and fresh so he can play his best footy. If Richo thinks he can keep Mav in the team week after week he's deluded. Keep him hungry and fresh and he will perform at 100%. There also could be 2-3 clubs that might need a hard man like Mav that might be willing to give up a decent draft pick.
degruch wrote:Either way, the club knows what they're looking at far more than you or I
The club is on it's knees and is a laughing stock with richo suggesting publicly that we would be going deep into the finals this year.
There's a vast difference between pre-season marketing/media hype and game day selection though.
I know, I share your frustration mate, but the constant calls to dredge the VFL for replacements baffles me...we have seen better from a lot of the current players, they go back to the VFL and clean up, then seemingly return to punch the clock and collect their pay cheque. Brown's not one of those at least. I think we need a club psychologist more than anything!
