Screw you Doom and Gloom - let the games begin

[rodgerfox]

When we have the best smart admins that can take advantage of the success on field with growth in Memberships like the Richmond model it can set you up long term. Richmond's huge membership growth momentum started before they won a premiership. The fact that their admin and board are so smart gives their on field more chance yo have sustained success

It means you get a chance to play on the big stage in front of big crowds and it helps the club attract big $$ in terms of sponsorship.
When your club is strong and powerful and successful in finals it generates revenue and that allows your players great opportunities in their footballing careers and beyond.

Total myth.

Carlton and Richmond get the season opener every year because they have large supporter bases.

Their ladder positions have had absolutely zero to do with it. Fact.

ANZAC Day ditto.

Dreamtime at the G. Ditto.

ANZAC Day Eve. Same.

Queens Birthday. Ditto.

Easter Monday. Same.


We were the best team in the comp for two years and still averaged under 40k to our games.

Essendon, Carlton, Collingwood, Richmond pull those numbers even when ensure in the bottom 2.


I can't believe people fall for this 'if we start winning we will get the big games' rubbish. It's utter guff. It simply does not happen.


We have a small supporter base, that traditionally doesn't love footy enough to show up every week.
Richmond, Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon have huge supporter bases that are tragic enough to rock up in huge numbers no matter what.


Unless that changes, we will never, ever be a big club. And it will never, ever happen.

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

Its all about ego and the AFL world is full it from the top right down to the supporter in a seat. Ego is one of the biggest curses placed on mankind since its beginning.

I have always found it funny when say a Carlton or Essendon supporter brags about how many flags they have won and then joke that the Saints have only won one. My response has always been the same. "So what? Are they going to talk about it at your or my funeral?"
Obviously the answer is a 100% no. Seriously, get a life. Yes, I want the Saints to win more flags before I die because its fun, exciting and it gives you something to follow but its not the end of the world if they don't. Footy is an outlet from the real world and a bit of fun.

[asiu]

really

‘ego’ is an imaginary mental construct
though aptly descriptive of 3rd chakra unbalancedness/blockage

either way , its a curse on self by self

who does mankind get to blame for that one
in your story ?

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

Ego is a curse, not a blessing. It ruins careers and lives putting people in places that they don't really want to be.

[Dave McNamara]

I have always found it funny when say a Carlton or Essendon supporter brags about how many flags they have won and then joke that the Saints have only won one. My response has always been the same. "So what? Are they going to talk about it at your or my funeral?"

I have always found it funny how many flags those two corrupt institutions have managed to win since the AFL finally got serious about salary caps and stopping clubs from just going out and buying a premiership team.




Btw, for whatever it's worth, I'd be very happy if people talked about the Saintas at my funeral... if I have one.

[asiu]

a self centred prat obsessed with his own self centred pratness is choice

extrapolating a cursed mankind
because of some dumb prats choice
is a figment of an over active imagination

good luck with that

[CQ SAINT]

My dad passed away in 2009 before the Grand Final. Like many of us, as a supporter and sponsor, he dedicated lots of time and money to his greatest love outside of the family, the Saints.
My mum always complained about my dad either heing at work or at the football. One of his dying thoughts were a hope that he would make it to September to see them win.
Neither happened, but his love of the Saints and his disappointment in not seeing a second Premiership was a certain topic at his funeral.
If not for me arguing to keep it and take it to many more matches, his 50 year old hand knitted Saints scarf was to be around his neck when he was placed in his coffin. He used to where the bloody thing to church!!!
For some of us it is a part of our identity, I have often wondered, if you lived in Melbourne, how you could barrack for St.Kilda and not go to the matches. I love my life, my job, my home and the coastal town I love in in Qld but gee I miss going to the football.
Between 73 and 94, when I left Melbourne, me and Dad didn't miss many games probably less than 20. He would be able to tell you the exact number and why we missed them. My dad was a fairly successful person and was an admired character in the circles he mixed in, ego probably had a bit to do with his dogged determination to follow the Saints so loyally.

[rodgerfox]

My dad passed away in 2009 before the Grand Final. Like many of us, as a supporter and sponsor, he dedicated lots of time and money to his greatest love outside of the family, the Saints.
My mum always complained about my dad either heing at work or at the football. One of his dying thoughts were a hope that he would make it to September to see them win.
Neither happened, but his love of the Saints and his disappointment in not seeing a second Premiership was a certain topic at his funeral.
If not for me arguing to keep it and take it to many more matches, his 50 year old hand knitted Saints scarf was to be around his neck when he was placed in his coffin. He used to where the bloody thing to church!!!
For some of us it is a part of our identity, I have often wondered, if you lived in Melbourne, how you could barrack for St.Kilda and not go to the matches. I love my life, my job, my home and the coastal town I love in in Qld but gee I miss going to the football.
Between 73 and 94, when I left Melbourne, me and Dad didn't miss many games probably less than 20. He would be able to tell you the exact number and why we missed them. My dad was a fairly successful person and was an admired character in the circles he mixed in, ego probably had a bit to do with his dogged determination to follow the Saints so loyally.

FWIW, I personally have no issue with people being into sport, and into the club/s or franchises they barrack for.
I take enormous pleasure watching my teams in the NBA, NBA, WNBL, NHL, MBL, NFL, EPL, NRL, AFL and Serie A.

I'm a sports nut.

But my club/s being 'big' or 'powerful' is the utterly most irrelevant thing to me.


If anything, the smaller and bigger the underdog my team is, probably the better.

[asiu]

vale your old man mate
vale all the passed st kilda tragics

its an addiction for me
... tribal loyalty
... ‘n i choose that behaviour coz i enjoy it

its this curse thing that gets up my goat
woe is mankind
woe woe woe

from something somewhere sometime external to himself that creates his reality

i mean really !!!

its the 21st Century ffs

[sunsaint]

Btw, for whatever it's worth, I'd be very happy if people talked about the Saintas at my funeral... if I have one.

I'll be there Dave - and will be happy to sprinkle your ashes in the centre of stkilda oval

[sunsaint]

If there is one thing we can agree on its no bum hugs.

I am not sure if you mean hugging someone around the bum or using your bum to hug someone but either way I say no and I hope to never score a goal while in your team

Sorry DJ I'm not quite up on the appropriate terminology these days
But you don't need to worry about the team I'm on...
No bum hugs allowed
just not sure about those soccer players, thank g@d it's a low scoring game

[Scollop]

When we have the best smart admins that can take advantage of the success on field with growth in Memberships like the Richmond model it can set you up long term. Richmond's huge membership growth momentum started before they won a premiership. The fact that their admin and board are so smart gives their on field more chance yo have sustained success

It means you get a chance to play on the big stage in front of big crowds and it helps the club attract big $$ in terms of sponsorship.
When your club is strong and powerful and successful in finals it generates revenue and that allows your players great opportunities in their footballing careers and beyond.

Total myth.

Carlton and Richmond get the season opener every year because they have large supporter bases.

Their ladder positions have had absolutely zero to do with it. Fact.

ANZAC Day ditto.

Dreamtime at the G. Ditto.

ANZAC Day Eve. Same.

Queens Birthday. Ditto.

Easter Monday. Same.


We were the best team in the comp for two years and still averaged under 40k to our games.

Essendon, Carlton, Collingwood, Richmond pull those numbers even when ensure in the bottom 2.


I can't believe people fall for this 'if we start winning we will get the big games' rubbish. It's utter guff. It simply does not happen.


We have a small supporter base, that traditionally doesn't love footy enough to show up every week.
Richmond, Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon have huge supporter bases that are tragic enough to rock up in huge numbers no matter what.


Unless that changes, we will never, ever be a big club. And it will never, ever happen.

It's ok to have an opinion but when you start backing up your opinions with furphies then your opinion lacks credibility...in my opinion

We averaged over 40K to all our games and also for all our home games in three consecutive years - 2008, 2009 and 2010 (including finals). You have to include finals because that is the main aim. That is the ultimate target for the footy club to prosper and grow

Interestingly...we also averaged over 40K in crowds at all home games in 2004 and 2005 excluding finals - more if you include finals games

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ta-st-kilda-saints

https://afltables.com/afl/crowds/stkilda.html

[rodgerfox]

We averaged over 40K to all our games and also for all our home games in three consecutive years - 2008, 2009 and 2010 (including finals). You have to include finals because that is the main aim. That is the ultimate target for the footy club to prosper and grow

Interestingly...we also averaged over 40K in crowds at all home games in 2004 and 2005 excluding finals - more if you include finals games

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ta-st-kilda-saints

https://afltables.com/afl/crowds/stkilda.html

??

We've only averaged over 38k once EVER in our history for home games.

EVER.

Are you trying to prove my point?

[rodgerfox]

(including finals). You have to include finals because that is the main aim. That is the ultimate target for the footy club to prosper and grow

Care to explain that theory??

[Yorkeys]

Cutting edge behavioural economics is tending to show it takes five successive years of winning seasons to create the ego platform for fans to become hard core members and then attend games*. Only people like us can tough out some of the abysmal, embarrassing performances that have been dished up since we were last serious finals contenders. Neither M. Finnis or A. Richardson can deliver 5 consistent competitive seasons. They will be gone soonish and we can start the count again. (See ant and rubber tree song lyrics). Digital exposure can compensate for lack of bums on seats at the venue but we need to dish up exhilarating footy and more wins than losses plus a few headline articulate players to attract attention. At the moment it is all so bloody unvisionary. AR is never going to introduce a tactic that causes other teams to go back to the planning drawing board or worry the rules committee. We are marking time until our Elton Musk comes along. Forget the big fish approach, write off the sunk costs in Carlisle and Hannebery, invest in a really smart ahead of the curve coach (we don't have any now - we have competent guys that will dish up park the bus beat them on the break game plans). This season is the recession we have to have to jolt life into the board (they still think 2018 was down to just bad luck and hurt feelings). We need a young genius coach to take our young talent to the finals. So screw you doom and gloom lets get started on setting up the 2020 to 2024 era. Pick 1 or 2 or both looms. In the meantime it is good to sing the club song after inter club wins or practice matches (if there are any) otherwise the oral history of the club song might be lost through lack of practice.

* based on absolutely no credible research.

[rodgerfox]

It's ok to have an opinion but when you start backing up your opinions with furphies then your opinion lacks credibility...in my opinion

We averaged over 40K to all our games and also for all our home games in three consecutive years - 2008, 2009 and 2010 (including finals). You have to include finals because that is the main aim. That is the ultimate target for the footy club to prosper and grow

Interestingly...we also averaged over 40K in crowds at all home games in 2004 and 2005 excluding finals - more if you include finals games

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ta-st-kilda-saints

https://afltables.com/afl/crowds/stkilda.html

To put some context around this....

We have outperformed Richmond on-field since the inception of the AFL:

Club	Saints	Essendon	Carlton	Richmond	Collingwood
Avg. Ladder Position	9.3	8.3	10	10.2	8.0

	Saints	Essendon	Carlton	Richmond	Collingwood
Finals Played	25	32	22	13	33
Finals Won	11	15	11	6	19
Finals Appearances	10	17	9	7	14
Wooden Spoons	2	1	5	2	1
Flags	0	2	2	1	2
McLellan Trophys	2	5	1	1	2
GFs	3	3	3	1	6
Caught Cheating	0	2	1	0	0

Yet look at these attendance figures:

Since 2000, we average 64,848 to our finals games. And, that includes 3 Grand Finals!! 3!

Richmond, only played in 1 Grand Final, have averaged 81,889 to their finals. Note also, that they played GWS in one of them too, and another one was at Adelaide Oval when they shut the gates at 50k cause they couldn't fit anyone else in.

Those numbers absolutely dwarf ours. And, as stated, that has come off the back of us outperforming them for 20 years on-field.


As for H&A attendances:

We average 33,325 to our games since 2000. They average 43,193.


Now this is where it gets damning, and why we will never, ever be a 'big club':

When we were good, and they were terrible between 2008 and 2011 - we averaged 40,532 and they averaged 41,734!! They still fronted up in bigger numbers to watch their team get flogged.

Now when they've been good, and we've been bad over the past 6 years - they have averaged 50,422 compared to our 27,617!!

Even Carlton have averaged 37,936 over the past 6 years to their home games. Carlton FFS!!


The reason big clubs get big fixtures, has nothing to do with their on-field performance. Nothing at all. It has everything to do with their supporter base fronting up every week.

We don't have the supporter base. And if we do, they are clearly not of the social inclination to be rooted rocking up to watch footy every week. On the other hand, the nut cases that support Richmond, Essendon, Collingwood, Carlton etc. show up no matter what.

That hasn't changed in 100 years - and it never, ever will.

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

Since the inception of the AFL and a fairer comp (drafts and salary cap), the Saints as a club have been quite sucessful. I think we have been pretty blessed to be honest minus a flag or two which would have made it all sweeter.

Yes, we are not a massive AFL club but we are still a very big sporting club nonetheless.

[skeptic]

I don't know that many people would look at the Saints as being quite successful since the league became the AFL.

Yeah we've won our fair share of games and made a bunch of finals and grand finals but would you trade the history for one like Richmond or the Bulldogs who haven't presented as well as we have but got the chocolates and are better off financially

[Scollop]

We averaged over 40K to all our games and also for all our home games in three consecutive years - 2008, 2009 and 2010 (including finals). You have to include finals because that is the main aim. That is the ultimate target for the footy club to prosper and grow

Interestingly...we also averaged over 40K in crowds at all home games in 2004 and 2005 excluding finals - more if you include finals games

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ta-st-kilda-saints

https://afltables.com/afl/crowds/stkilda.html

??

We've only averaged over 38k once EVER in our history for home games.

EVER.

Are you trying to prove my point?

If you make a general statement and just call them 'home games' it is misleading.

The yellow highlighted statement is ONLY true if you isolate home and away games and exclude finals (not sure why you'd exclude finals when they are still our home games and we have earnt the right to call them home games and earnt all the benefits that go along with getting into finals).

Your subsequent data on how many supporters have attended Richmond's home finals versus St Kilda's home finals is comparing apples with oranges. How the f*** are we going to fit 80,000 fans at Docklands?

[rodgerfox]

We averaged over 40K to all our games and also for all our home games in three consecutive years - 2008, 2009 and 2010 (including finals). You have to include finals because that is the main aim. That is the ultimate target for the footy club to prosper and grow

Interestingly...we also averaged over 40K in crowds at all home games in 2004 and 2005 excluding finals - more if you include finals games

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ta-st-kilda-saints

https://afltables.com/afl/crowds/stkilda.html

??

We've only averaged over 38k once EVER in our history for home games.

EVER.

Are you trying to prove my point?

Ok, so now you want to isolate home and away games and exclude finals

Your subsequent data on how many supporters have attended Richmond's home finals versus St Kilda's home finals is comparing apples with oranges. How the f*** are we going to fit 80,000 fans at Docklands?

?

Of course H&A is isolated from Finals! Including Finals with H&A games completely skews the figures. Not to mention we were the Home team in 09 GF.



As for Docklands, we've never filled it for a final, so your point on that is moot.

And that again proves the point - the AFL schedule us at Docklands because we simply don't draw the crowds, whereas the big clubs fill the MCG let alone Docklands.

In 2010 the Prelim on Friday night drew 95k at the MCG. Ours the next night only drew 62k.

[Scollop]

We averaged over 40K to all our games and also for all our home games in three consecutive years - 2008, 2009 and 2010 (including finals). You have to include finals because that is the main aim. That is the ultimate target for the footy club to prosper and grow

Interestingly...we also averaged over 40K in crowds at all home games in 2004 and 2005 excluding finals - more if you include finals games

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ta-st-kilda-saints

https://afltables.com/afl/crowds/stkilda.html

??

We've only averaged over 38k once EVER in our history for home games.

EVER.

Are you trying to prove my point?

Ok, so now you want to isolate home and away games and exclude finals

Your subsequent data on how many supporters have attended Richmond's home finals versus St Kilda's home finals is comparing apples with oranges. How the f*** are we going to fit 80,000 fans at Docklands?

?

Of course H&A is isolated from Finals! Including Grand Finals and finals against Collingwood with H&A games completely skews the figures. Not to mention we were the Home team in 09 GF.



As for Docklands, we've never filled it for a final, so your point on that is moot.

And that again proves the point - the AFL schedule us at Docklands because we simply don't draw the crowds, whereas the big clubs fill the MCG let alone Docklands.

In 2010 the Prelim on Friday night drew 95k at the MCG. Ours the next night only drew 62k.

More generalisations in your reply...cbf'd looking up the data. Just again - not sure why you'd exclude finals when they are still our home games and we have earnt the right to call them home games and earnt all the benefits that go along with getting into finals.

The more you participate in them the more exposure to potential new fans/members and the more exposure to sponsors and the more chances of winning multiple finals and perhaps even adding to our flag tally

[rodgerfox]

We averaged over 40K to all our games and also for all our home games in three consecutive years - 2008, 2009 and 2010 (including finals). You have to include finals because that is the main aim. That is the ultimate target for the footy club to prosper and grow

Interestingly...we also averaged over 40K in crowds at all home games in 2004 and 2005 excluding finals - more if you include finals games

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ta-st-kilda-saints

https://afltables.com/afl/crowds/stkilda.html

??

We've only averaged over 38k once EVER in our history for home games.

EVER.

Are you trying to prove my point?

Ok, so now you want to isolate home and away games and exclude finals

Your subsequent data on how many supporters have attended Richmond's home finals versus St Kilda's home finals is comparing apples with oranges. How the f*** are we going to fit 80,000 fans at Docklands?

?

Of course H&A is isolated from Finals! Including Grand Finals and finals against Collingwood with H&A games completely skews the figures. Not to mention we were the Home team in 09 GF.



As for Docklands, we've never filled it for a final, so your point on that is moot.

And that again proves the point - the AFL schedule us at Docklands because we simply don't draw the crowds, whereas the big clubs fill the MCG let alone Docklands.

In 2010 the Prelim on Friday night drew 95k at the MCG. Ours the next night only drew 62k.

More generalisations in your reply...cbf'd looking up the data. Just again - not sure why you'd exclude finals when they are still our home games and we have earnt the right to call them home games and earnt all the benefits that go along with getting into finals.

The more you participate in them the more exposure to potential new fans/members and the more exposure to sponsors and the more chances of winning multiple finals and perhaps even adding to our flag tally

I didn't exclude it.

I isolated it.

It's equally as important to my point, however it skews the numbers as finals are different in circumstance to H&A games.

It's very rare for neutral fans to rock up to H&A games, but incredibly common practice for finals.

[Scollop]

It's very rare for neutral fans to rock up to H&A games, but incredibly common practice for finals.

Generalisation

What about games like Anzac Day/Dreamtime @ the G, and perhaps even Good Friday once it gets established as a marquee footy attendance day - or what about rivalries between clubs like you had with Swans/Eagles after 2005/6 or Cats Hawks after 2008 - rivalries between previous years Grand Finalists - Easter weekend games - Queens Birthday weekend matches - even some Friday/Sat night matches at the G or at Docklands where you have top of the table clashes (Saints V Cats 2009). When VFL Park was still around there'd be a huge number of people from surrounding suburbs and from Gippsland and the alpine region and Yarra valley that loved to come out and freeze their nuts off at Waverley to watch the Roy Boys or who ever was scheduled each week...I know I did

[Jacks Back]

We averaged over 40K to all our games and also for all our home games in three consecutive years - 2008, 2009 and 2010 (including finals). You have to include finals because that is the main aim. That is the ultimate target for the footy club to prosper and grow

Interestingly...we also averaged over 40K in crowds at all home games in 2004 and 2005 excluding finals - more if you include finals games

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ta-st-kilda-saints

https://afltables.com/afl/crowds/stkilda.html

??

We've only averaged over 38k once EVER in our history for home games.

EVER.

Are you trying to prove my point?

Ok, so now you want to isolate home and away games and exclude finals

Your subsequent data on how many supporters have attended Richmond's home finals versus St Kilda's home finals is comparing apples with oranges. How the f*** are we going to fit 80,000 fans at Docklands?

?

Of course H&A is isolated from Finals! Including Grand Finals and finals against Collingwood with H&A games completely skews the figures. Not to mention we were the Home team in 09 GF.



As for Docklands, we've never filled it for a final, so your point on that is moot.

And that again proves the point - the AFL schedule us at Docklands because we simply don't draw the crowds, whereas the big clubs fill the MCG let alone Docklands.

In 2010 the Prelim on Friday night drew 95k at the MCG. Ours the next night only drew 62k.

More generalisations in your reply...cbf'd looking up the data. Just again - not sure why you'd exclude finals when they are still our home games and we have earnt the right to call them home games and earnt all the benefits that go along with getting into finals.

The more you participate in them the more exposure to potential new fans/members and the more exposure to sponsors and the more chances of winning multiple finals and perhaps even adding to our flag tally

We had a pretty boring game style back in 2009/2010 (a lot of defense) which would not have helped the crowd figures.

[asiu]

a lot of Fitzroy boys came to us when there team folded yea ?